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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 14 Nov 2004, 11:29 am
disallow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued

Hi there,

So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).

Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)

My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.

I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
I replaced them.

Here are my theories:

1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
belt replacement.

2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
belt.

There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
sure what to believe.

How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
degrees when you adjust it manually.

The site I saw this on was:

http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html

I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
back from the group on opinions of this action.

3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.

How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
I reset it again?

Any thoughts are appreciated.

Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
about a month ago.

Thanks
t


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14 Nov 2004, 11:40 am
disallow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued

Also, I replaed the PCV valve recently with an OEM valve from honda.

t

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 14 Nov 2004, 03:54 pm
Michael Pardee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued

Start with the ignition timing. If it is off by something like 10 degrees
either way, bet on having the timing belt one tooth off. D'oh! but no real
danger there. If the valve/ignition timing is retarded, the engine usually
doesn't want to start or idle, and it will have an odd hollow exhaust note.
Advanced timing will let it start and idle okay, but with "issues."

Mike

"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:12c44abec70221b73d0e85a551eddf0f@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Hi there,
>
> So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
> or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
> up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).
>
> Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
> fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
> gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
> not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
> problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
> last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)
>
> My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
> bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
> sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
> throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
> low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.
>
> I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
> cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
> but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
> I replaced them.
>
> Here are my theories:
>
> 1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
> carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
> marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
> I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
> belt replacement.
>
> 2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
> ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
> belt.
>
> There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
> when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
> all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
> say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
> sure what to believe.
>
> How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
> own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
> would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
> mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
> degrees when you adjust it manually.
>
> The site I saw this on was:
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>
> I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
> back from the group on opinions of this action.
>
> 3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
> to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
> reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.
>
> How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
> F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
> I reset it again?
>
> Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
> around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
> about a month ago.
>
> Thanks
> t
>
>



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 14 Nov 2004, 03:56 pm
motsco_ _
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued

disallow wrote:
> Hi there,
>
> So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
> or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
> up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).
>
> Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
> fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
> gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
> not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
> problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
> last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)
>
> My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
> bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
> sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
> throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
> low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.
>
> I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
> cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
> but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
> I replaced them.
>
> Here are my theories:
>
> 1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
> carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
> marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
> I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
> belt replacement.
>
> 2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
> ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
> belt.
>
> There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
> when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
> all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
> say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
> sure what to believe.
>
> How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
> own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
> would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
> mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
> degrees when you adjust it manually.
>
> The site I saw this on was:
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>
> I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
> back from the group on opinions of this action.
>
> 3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
> to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
> reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.
>
> How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
> F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
> I reset it again?
>
> Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
> around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
> about a month ago.
>
> Thanks
> t
> =======================


You need to check your CAM timing, not your ignition timing. Ignition
timing will be OK if the TB is in place correctly. You can't compensate
one to correct the other.

Read this wonderful 'Peach Basket' article one more time to understand
why cam timing is so important:

http://honda.lathi.net/faq.html#interference

The Vtec article also is enlightening . . .

'Curly'

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 14 Nov 2004, 04:12 pm
Michael Pardee
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued

Isn't the ignition timing dependent on cam timing on this model? (I know
some engines use flywheel timing, but I thought this vintage Honda at least
use a cam driven distributor with reluctor in it.) It is definitely possible
to tweak the ignition timing to hide bad cam timing, while leaving the
valves mistimed, but if the distributor wasn't touched the ignition timing
should reflect cam timing on SOHC engines. On DOHC, the other cam is still
anybody's guess.

Mike

"motsco_ _" <"motsco_ _"@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:4197D471.2030308@interbaun.com...
> disallow wrote:
>> Hi there,
>>
>> So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
>> or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck up my poor
>> little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).
>>
>> Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of fuel. I filled up
>> on Friday, and have driven 100kms and gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This
>> could be due in part to not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty
>> sure the problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the last
>> tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)
>>
>> My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell bad, it smells
>> more like when the car was new. Kind of a sweet smell, not really
>> sulphur. Performance is steady throughout the range of all RPMs, no
>> weird vibrations at low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.
>>
>> I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor cap, rotor, and
>> plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old, but were running with the weak
>> cap, rotor, and wires until I replaced them.
>>
>> Here are my theories:
>>
>> 1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little carbonned up,
>> but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
>> marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires. I did re-gap them when I
>> put them back in during the t-
>> belt replacement.
>>
>> 2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my ignition timing,
>> or I am off by one tooth on the timing belt.
>>
>> There are conflicting reports of what this engine does when it is off by
>> one tooth. Some say it won't run at all, others say it runs with reduced
>> power, still others say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not
>> too sure what to believe.
>>
>> How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its own? From what I
>> have read, one tooth off means that it would be 18 degrees advanced or
>> retarded. Also, the guy mentioned that the distributor can only adjust
>> for 5 degrees when you adjust it manually.
>>
>> The site I saw this on was:
>>
>> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>>
>> I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear back from the
>> group on opinions of this action.
>>
>> 3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need to give the
>> ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I reset it during the t-belt
>> replacement procedure. How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the
>> wrong F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should I reset
>> it again?
>>
>> Any thoughts are appreciated. Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure,
>> 32PSI all around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system about a
>> month ago.
>>
>> Thanks
>> t
>> =======================

>
> You need to check your CAM timing, not your ignition timing. Ignition
> timing will be OK if the TB is in place correctly. You can't compensate
> one to correct the other.
>
> Read this wonderful 'Peach Basket' article one more time to understand why
> cam timing is so important:
>
> http://honda.lathi.net/faq.html#interference
>
> The Vtec article also is enlightening . . .
>
> 'Curly'
>



Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 15 Nov 2004, 01:52 pm
lamont1
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued

WHEN U CHANGE A TIMING BELT, USUALLY WITH THE NEW BELT THE TIMING WILL BE
ADVANCED BECAUSE THE OLD BELT MAY HAVE BEEN A B IT STRETCHED WHICH WOULD
HAVE CAUSED IT TO BE RETARDED. IF THE MECHANIC SETS THE TIMING ON A SLIGHTLY
STRETCHED BELT AND YOU THEN PUT ON A NEW BELT THE TIMING WILL BE ADVANCED. I
THINK THAT RETARDED TIMING COULD CAUSE BAD MILEAGE BUT S OUNDS LIKE YOU DID
MORE THAN JUST CHANGE THE BELT. JUST TAKE OFF THE TIMING BELT COVER. LINE UP
THE TIMING CAM MARKS AND CHECK TO SEE T HAT THE FIRST PISTON IS AT TDC. IF
IT IS AT TDC MECHANICAL TIMING IS FINE. YOU CAN TURN THE ENGINE AT THE
PULLEY CRANK BOLT.
"disallow" <loewen_t at yahoo.ca @> wrote in message
news:12c44abec70221b73d0e85a551eddf0f@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Hi there,
>
> So here I am, back again. Hat in hand, looking for ideas,
> or at least some reassurance that I didn't totally f&*(ck
> up my poor little 98 civic LX (D16Y7).
>
> Since the timing belt job, I have gone thru 1 tank of
> fuel. I filled up on Friday, and have driven 100kms and
> gone thru almost 1/4 tank! (This could be due in part to
> not filling up allll the way, but I am pretty sure the
> problem is bigger than that.) I gauged my mileage on the
> last tank, it was around 25MPG (US gallons). (BRUTAL)
>
> My exhaust smells different than before. It doesn't smell
> bad, it smells more like when the car was new. Kind of a
> sweet smell, not really sulphur. Performance is steady
> throughout the range of all RPMs, no weird vibrations at
> low or high RPMs, car still hits 180KPH no problem.
>
> I have, in the past 2 months, also replaced distributor
> cap, rotor, and plug wires. My plugs are under 1 yr old,
> but were running with the weak cap, rotor, and wires until
> I replaced them.
>
> Here are my theories:
>
> 1. I need to replace my spark plugs. They were a little
> carbonned up, but not really that bad. The insulator had some arcing
> marks on it on 2, probably from my bad wires.
> I did re-gap them when I put them back in during the t-
> belt replacement.
>
> 2. Ignition timing may be off. Either I need to set my
> ignition timing, or I am off by one tooth on the timing
> belt.
>
> There are conflicting reports of what this engine does
> when it is off by one tooth. Some say it won't run at
> all, others say it runs with reduced power, still others
> say it just affects gas mileage a whole lot. I'm not too
> sure what to believe.
>
> How much does the computer advance/retard timing on its
> own? From what I have read, one tooth off means that it
> would be 18 degrees advanced or retarded. Also, the guy
> mentioned that the distributor can only adjust for 5
> degrees when you adjust it manually.
>
> The site I saw this on was:
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>
> I have not checked my timing yet. I will wait to hear
> back from the group on opinions of this action.
>
> 3. So theory 3 is that I am just being paranoid, and need
> to give the ECU some time to reprogram itself from when I
> reset it during the t-belt replacement procedure.
>
> How long can this take? Can it 'teach itself' the wrong
> F/A mixtures and cause the problems with mileage? Should
> I reset it again?
>
> Any thoughts are appreciated.
>
> Oh ya, and I checked my tire pressure, 32PSI all
> around.... and I ran some FI Cleaner through the system
> about a month ago.
>
> Thanks
> t
>
>



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 15 Nov 2004, 02:04 pm
Sten-Arne Zerpe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued

On Mon, 15 Nov 2004 19:52:39 GMT.
In the Newsgroup(s): alt.autos.honda
With the Message-ID: <bO7md.5709$2V4.4021@trndny06>
And the Organization Header: .
The famous author: "lamont1" <lamont@lamont.com>.
Wrote on the subject: Re: Civic Timing Belt Saga - Continued:

>WHEN U CHANGE A TIMING BELT, USUALLY WITH THE NEW BELT THE TIMING WILL BE
>ADVANCED BECAUSE THE OLD BELT MAY HAVE BEEN A B IT STRETCHED WHICH WOULD
>HAVE CAUSED IT TO BE RETARDED. IF THE MECHANIC SETS THE TIMING ON A SLIGHTLY
>STRETCHED BELT AND YOU THEN PUT ON A NEW BELT THE TIMING WILL BE ADVANCED. I
>THINK THAT RETARDED TIMING COULD CAUSE BAD MILEAGE BUT S OUNDS LIKE YOU DID
>MORE THAN JUST CHANGE THE BELT. JUST TAKE OFF THE TIMING BELT COVER. LINE UP
>THE TIMING CAM MARKS AND CHECK TO SEE T HAT THE FIRST PISTON IS AT TDC. IF
>IT IS AT TDC MECHANICAL TIMING IS FINE. YOU CAN TURN THE ENGINE AT THE
>PULLEY CRANK BOLT.
>


Please stop shouting.

SAZ

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