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Old 09 Nov 2004, 08:48 pm
Nobody
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Default Tweaking 04 CR-V alignment

Just had an alignment done. Rear toe is .07/.09 which is fine. Dealer set
left front toe to 0 which is what it should be and the right front toe
-0.01 for some reason. As minor as this may seem, I can feel it. A little
too loose for me and a it's little twitchy on the highway...not horrible,
but it's there. Dealer has refused to tweak the right in to 0, saying
-0.01 is in spec (which it is).

I am considering just tweaking it in a little myself, but I want an idea of
how much, say, one complete 360 degree rotation of a tie rod will affect
the alignment. Any techs out there who can give me an idea? If not, I can
just tweak it a 1/4 turn at a time until it feels right. Worst case, I'll
just have to pay for another alignment. The spec on the CR-V is a mile
wide anyway.

As an addendum, I had an 03 CR-V which another dealer did an alignment on
where they set both front wheels to +0.04. That one handled
excellent...super tight. Unfortunately, they set the rear to .13/.06 which
resulted (I presume since it never happened before) in the rear
occasionally squirming on the highway. I use this dealer for all my
service, but their alignments generally stink, so I won't go there for
that.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 10 Nov 2004, 06:05 am
Michael Pardee
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Default Re: Tweaking 04 CR-V alignment

A full turn would be pretty large. Maybe an expert can give you better info.

Of course, there is more than driving feel to consider. Increasing toe-in
will reduce the twitchiness but will affect tire wear if overdone. (Got the
t-shirt for that one!) If you are going to adjust it yourself, keep notes so
you can set it exactly where it was and check the wear pattern after each
adjustment. Some people like to use chalk, but I prefer masking tape across
the full width of the tread. Apply it (whichever or both) while parked
alongside a lightly travelled and well paved road and drive straight for a
mile or so. Look to see the outer edges are wearing at the same rate as the
inner edges. Since your alignment is known to be basically correct to start
with, you should not deviate from the starting point very much.

Mike

"Nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959CDE132CDF0XZLKJOIDUKLJ098098@24.24.2.16 6...
> Just had an alignment done. Rear toe is .07/.09 which is fine. Dealer
> set
> left front toe to 0 which is what it should be and the right front toe
> -0.01 for some reason. As minor as this may seem, I can feel it. A
> little
> too loose for me and a it's little twitchy on the highway...not horrible,
> but it's there. Dealer has refused to tweak the right in to 0, saying
> -0.01 is in spec (which it is).
>
> I am considering just tweaking it in a little myself, but I want an idea
> of
> how much, say, one complete 360 degree rotation of a tie rod will affect
> the alignment. Any techs out there who can give me an idea? If not, I
> can
> just tweak it a 1/4 turn at a time until it feels right. Worst case, I'll
> just have to pay for another alignment. The spec on the CR-V is a mile
> wide anyway.
>
> As an addendum, I had an 03 CR-V which another dealer did an alignment on
> where they set both front wheels to +0.04. That one handled
> excellent...super tight. Unfortunately, they set the rear to .13/.06
> which
> resulted (I presume since it never happened before) in the rear
> occasionally squirming on the highway. I use this dealer for all my
> service, but their alignments generally stink, so I won't go there for
> that.



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11 Nov 2004, 11:44 pm
Nobody
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tweaking 04 CR-V alignment

"Michael Pardee" <michaeltnull@cybertrails.com> wrote in
news:a7adnd9GJeaGmQ_cRVn-qA@sedona.net:

> A full turn would be pretty large. Maybe an expert can give you better
> info.
>
> Of course, there is more than driving feel to consider. Increasing
> toe-in will reduce the twitchiness but will affect tire wear if
> overdone. (Got the t-shirt for that one!) If you are going to adjust
> it yourself, keep notes so you can set it exactly where it was and
> check the wear pattern after each adjustment. Some people like to use
> chalk, but I prefer masking tape across the full width of the tread.
> Apply it (whichever or both) while parked alongside a lightly
> travelled and well paved road and drive straight for a mile or so.
> Look to see the outer edges are wearing at the same rate as the inner
> edges. Since your alignment is known to be basically correct to start
> with, you should not deviate from the starting point very much.
>
> Mike


Hi MIke,
Thanks for the tip on the chalk/tape. Not going to move it much!
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 13 Nov 2004, 03:25 pm
Honda Doc
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tweaking 04 CR-V alignment

-0.01 what? Inches, mm, degrees..? If it's negative, it won't feel
"twicthy". The more positive you go, the quicker it steers. The more
negative you go, the more stable the steering is. You also have to remember
the the steering will center itself, meaning your actual toe will be -0.005
per side which can no way be felt while driving. check something a little
more obvious like tire pressures. The higher the pressure, the looser the
steering will feel.


"Nobody" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:Xns959CDE132CDF0XZLKJOIDUKLJ098098@24.24.2.16 6...
> Just had an alignment done. Rear toe is .07/.09 which is fine. Dealer

set
> left front toe to 0 which is what it should be and the right front toe
> -0.01 for some reason. As minor as this may seem, I can feel it. A

little
> too loose for me and a it's little twitchy on the highway...not horrible,
> but it's there. Dealer has refused to tweak the right in to 0, saying
> -0.01 is in spec (which it is).
>
> I am considering just tweaking it in a little myself, but I want an idea

of
> how much, say, one complete 360 degree rotation of a tie rod will affect
> the alignment. Any techs out there who can give me an idea? If not, I

can
> just tweak it a 1/4 turn at a time until it feels right. Worst case, I'll
> just have to pay for another alignment. The spec on the CR-V is a mile
> wide anyway.
>
> As an addendum, I had an 03 CR-V which another dealer did an alignment on
> where they set both front wheels to +0.04. That one handled
> excellent...super tight. Unfortunately, they set the rear to .13/.06

which
> resulted (I presume since it never happened before) in the rear
> occasionally squirming on the highway. I use this dealer for all my
> service, but their alignments generally stink, so I won't go there for
> that.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 13 Nov 2004, 09:43 pm
Nobody
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tweaking 04 CR-V alignment

"Honda Doc" <tophondadoc@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:fYGdnW0_9L9L5gvcRVn-og@comcast.com:

> -0.01 what? Inches, mm, degrees..? If it's negative, it won't feel
> "twicthy". The more positive you go, the quicker it steers. The more
> negative you go, the more stable the steering is. You also have to
> remember the the steering will center itself, meaning your actual toe
> will be -0.005 per side which can no way be felt while driving. check
> something a little more obvious like tire pressures. The higher the
> pressure, the looser the steering will feel.


Degrees. My experience with negative toe doesn't coincide with your
statements. I had an RSX which was -0.01 (degrees) on both front wheels
and it wouldn't hold a straight line...wandered all over the place. Once
zeroed up, it was perfect. The tech that did the alignment also said I
shouldn't have been able to notice it.

Now, on that vehicle, -0.01 is out of spec...whereas on the CR-V +0.08 to -
0.08 is allowed per the spec.

Tire pressure is fine and checked regularly.

It's not that the vehicle isn't driveable. You can even take your hands
off the wheel and it will track straight. It just has an annoying quirk,
most obvious when changing lanes, where the steering isn't precise.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 14 Nov 2004, 04:53 pm
Nobody
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tweaking 04 CR-V alignment

Nobody <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote in
news:Xns95A0E771E2D9XZLKJOIDUKLJ098098@24.24.2.166 :

> "Honda Doc" <tophondadoc@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:fYGdnW0_9L9L5gvcRVn-og@comcast.com:
>
>> -0.01 what? Inches, mm, degrees..? If it's negative, it won't feel
>> "twicthy". The more positive you go, the quicker it steers. The more
>> negative you go, the more stable the steering is. You also have to
>> remember the the steering will center itself, meaning your actual toe
>> will be -0.005 per side which can no way be felt while driving. check
>> something a little more obvious like tire pressures. The higher the
>> pressure, the looser the steering will feel.

>
> Degrees. My experience with negative toe doesn't coincide with your
> statements. I had an RSX which was -0.01 (degrees) on both front
> wheels and it wouldn't hold a straight line...wandered all over the
> place. Once zeroed up, it was perfect. The tech that did the
> alignment also said I shouldn't have been able to notice it.
>
> Now, on that vehicle, -0.01 is out of spec...whereas on the CR-V +0.08
> to - 0.08 is allowed per the spec.
>
> Tire pressure is fine and checked regularly.
>
> It's not that the vehicle isn't driveable. You can even take your
> hands off the wheel and it will track straight. It just has an
> annoying quirk, most obvious when changing lanes, where the steering
> isn't precise.
>


Sorry, I rechecked my documents...while there is a 'degree' symbol next to
the values, it's clearly inches.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 20 Nov 2004, 11:34 pm
Sean Dinh
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Tweaking 04 CR-V alignment

I use a tape measure to do toe adjustment. 1/32 is plenty accurate. I won't
worry about 0.01. Adjustment for 0.01 is beyond repeatable because of the play
in the wheel bearings.

If you want more stability, you need to reduce toe in the - direction, not
zeroing it. -0.05 & -0.05 would help a bit.

Nobody wrote:

> Just had an alignment done. Rear toe is .07/.09 which is fine. Dealer set
> left front toe to 0 which is what it should be and the right front toe
> -0.01 for some reason. As minor as this may seem, I can feel it. A little
> too loose for me and a it's little twitchy on the highway...not horrible,
> but it's there. Dealer has refused to tweak the right in to 0, saying
> -0.01 is in spec (which it is).
>
> I am considering just tweaking it in a little myself, but I want an idea of
> how much, say, one complete 360 degree rotation of a tie rod will affect
> the alignment. Any techs out there who can give me an idea? If not, I can
> just tweak it a 1/4 turn at a time until it feels right. Worst case, I'll
> just have to pay for another alignment. The spec on the CR-V is a mile
> wide anyway.
>
> As an addendum, I had an 03 CR-V which another dealer did an alignment on
> where they set both front wheels to +0.04. That one handled
> excellent...super tight. Unfortunately, they set the rear to .13/.06 which
> resulted (I presume since it never happened before) in the rear
> occasionally squirming on the highway. I use this dealer for all my
> service, but their alignments generally stink, so I won't go there for
> that.


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