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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 28 Oct 2004, 11:29 pm
vincin
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Default 91 civic wont start ???

I'm working on my buddy’s civic and having some trouble figuring what’s
wrong. The car was running ok until he came out of the store and it
wouldn’t start. After having it towed to my house I started to check
things over. His mechanic said it was the timing belt. Sounds like all
mechanics. I pulled the distributor and tried to start the motor to see if
the rotor turned. It did. I’m guessing that the timing belt is ok. I pulled
the spark plug to check for spark. I got spark. I checked the fuel pump
inside the gas tank and can hear it running. I checked the fuel lines
coming into the manifold for flow and pressure, Its OK. I finally read the
codes off the computer. I got a #16) fuel injector system & #17) VSS
error code. Now the kicker is when I try to start the car it just turns
and turns. Now if I pump the gas pedal as fast as I can the motor all but
starts. As soon as I stop pumping, the engine dies. I then put some gas
into the carburetor and tried starting the motor, no luck with that. This
91 civic hatchback DX has about 160,000 mile and the 91 model has a PGM-FI
system on it. Any Ideals……..

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 28 Oct 2004, 11:39 pm
Caroline
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Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

Dunno about the codes (engine flooded now?) but based on a lot of
reading here and experience with my own 1991 Civic LX sedan, the
leading causes of early 1990s Civics not starting (but the distributor
rotor turns) are:

1.
Failed distributor ignitor. How old is the current one? They last
maybe 100k miles. The following sites are helpful on the subject:

http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...er/igniter.htm

www.autozone.com click on the links to the free repair guides. Put in
your car's info. Go to engine electrical, distributor, etc. for some
checks you can do on the ignitor.

2.
Failed main relay. But you say you hear the fuel pump running, so I'd
lean towards 1. Also, it's usually an intermittent problem: The car is
drivine for awhile, stopped, then won't start for awhile, then after
sitting it will start.

Updates welcome, for the archives.

Good luck.

"vincin" <vincin63@yahoo.com> wrote
> I'm working on my buddy's civic and having some trouble figuring

what's
> wrong. The car was running ok until he came out of the store and it
> wouldn't start. After having it towed to my house I started to check
> things over. His mechanic said it was the timing belt. Sounds like

all
> mechanics. I pulled the distributor and tried to start the motor to

see if
> the rotor turned. It did. I'm guessing that the timing belt is ok. I

pulled
> the spark plug to check for spark. I got spark. I checked the fuel

pump
> inside the gas tank and can hear it running. I checked the fuel

lines
> coming into the manifold for flow and pressure, Its OK. I finally

read the
> codes off the computer. I got a #16) fuel injector system & #17)

VSS
> error code. Now the kicker is when I try to start the car it just

turns
> and turns. Now if I pump the gas pedal as fast as I can the motor

all but
> starts. As soon as I stop pumping, the engine dies. I then put some

gas
> into the carburetor and tried starting the motor, no luck with that.

This
> 91 civic hatchback DX has about 160,000 mile and the 91 model has a

PGM-FI
> system on it. Any Ideals....



(Carburetor and PGM-FI? That's a post-o, isn't it?)


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 29 Oct 2004, 12:30 am
Eric
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Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

Caroline wrote:
>
> Dunno about the codes (engine flooded now?) but based on a lot of
> reading here and experience with my own 1991 Civic LX sedan, the
> leading causes of early 1990s Civics not starting (but the distributor
> rotor turns) are:
>
> 1.
> Failed distributor ignitor. How old is the current one? They last
> maybe 100k miles. The following sites are helpful on the subject:
>
> http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...er/igniter.htm
>
> www.autozone.com click on the links to the free repair guides. Put in
> your car's info. Go to engine electrical, distributor, etc. for some
> checks you can do on the ignitor.


I believe that the original poster noted that he had spark. A failed
ignitor would yield a no spark conditon, correct?

> 2.
> Failed main relay. But you say you hear the fuel pump running, so I'd
> lean towards 1. Also, it's usually an intermittent problem: The car is
> drivine for awhile, stopped, then won't start for awhile, then after
> sitting it will start.
>


I'll second the main relay. The symptoms described by the original poster
are classic for a failed main relay, i.e., park it, let it set 5-15 minutes,
then no start.

> Updates welcome, for the archives.
>
> Good luck.
>
> "vincin" <vincin63@yahoo.com> wrote
> > I'm working on my buddy's civic and having some trouble figuring
> > what's wrong. The car was running ok until he came out of the store
> > and it wouldn't start. After having it towed to my house I started to
> > check things over. His mechanic said it was the timing belt. Sounds
> > like all mechanics. I pulled the distributor and tried to start the
> > motor to see if the rotor turned. It did. I'm guessing that the timing
> > belt is ok.


Just knowing that the cam turns will not tell you if the belt slipped a
tooth or two. You may want to verify the mechanical timing.

> > I pulled the spark plug to check for spark. I got spark. I checked the
> > fuel pump inside the gas tank and can hear it running. I checked the
> > fuel lines coming into the manifold for flow and pressure, Its OK. I
> > finally read the codes off the computer. I got a #16) fuel injector
> > system & #17) VSS error code.


If I remember correctly, Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay.

> > Now the kicker is when I try to start the car it just turns and turns.
> > Now if I pump the gas pedal as fast as I can the motor all but
> > starts. As soon as I stop pumping, the engine dies. I then put some
> > gas into the carburetor and tried starting the motor, no luck with that.


Where did you put gas? There is no carburetor on a '91 Civic.

> > This 91 civic hatchback DX has about 160,000 mile and the 91 model has
> > a PGM-FI system on it. Any Ideals....

>
> (Carburetor and PGM-FI? That's a post-o, isn't it?)


Eric
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 29 Oct 2004, 01:07 am
Caroline
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> Caroline wrote:
> >
> > Dunno about the codes (engine flooded now?) but based on a lot of
> > reading here and experience with my own 1991 Civic LX sedan, the
> > leading causes of early 1990s Civics not starting (but the

distributor
> > rotor turns) are:
> >
> > 1.
> > Failed distributor ignitor. How old is the current one? They last
> > maybe 100k miles. The following sites are helpful on the subject:
> >
> > http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...er/igniter.htm
> >
> > www.autozone.com click on the links to the free repair guides. Put

in
> > your car's info. Go to engine electrical, distributor, etc. for

some
> > checks you can do on the ignitor.

>
> I believe that the original poster noted that he had spark. A

failed
> ignitor would yield a no spark conditon, correct?


This point also came up a year or so ago. I thought there wasn't a
clear consensus on it. Or we said it might depend on the specific
failure within the ignitor. Can't remember. I could be wrong, re the
spark.

> > 2.
> > Failed main relay. But you say you hear the fuel pump running, so

I'd
> > lean towards 1. Also, it's usually an intermittent problem: The

car is
> > drivine for awhile, stopped, then won't start for awhile, then

after
> > sitting it will start.
> >

>
> I'll second the main relay. The symptoms described by the original

poster
> are classic for a failed main relay, i.e., park it, let it set 5-15

minutes,

I thought he implied the car is dead right now; it ain't starting no
way no how.

That's why I leaned towards the ignitor.

> then no start.


He hears the fuel pump running, no?

Anyway, as always this should be interesting.


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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 29 Oct 2004, 10:17 am
Steve
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

Just because the pumps running doesn't mean there is enough fuel pressure.
Need to put a noid light on the injector or a test light
Steve
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:M6lgd.11224$5i5.4686@newsread2.news.atl.earth link.net...
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
>> Caroline wrote:
>> >
>> > Dunno about the codes (engine flooded now?) but based on a lot of
>> > reading here and experience with my own 1991 Civic LX sedan, the
>> > leading causes of early 1990s Civics not starting (but the

> distributor
>> > rotor turns) are:
>> >
>> > 1.
>> > Failed distributor ignitor. How old is the current one? They last
>> > maybe 100k miles. The following sites are helpful on the subject:
>> >
>> > http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...er/igniter.htm
>> >
>> > www.autozone.com click on the links to the free repair guides. Put

> in
>> > your car's info. Go to engine electrical, distributor, etc. for

> some
>> > checks you can do on the ignitor.

>>
>> I believe that the original poster noted that he had spark. A

> failed
>> ignitor would yield a no spark conditon, correct?

>
> This point also came up a year or so ago. I thought there wasn't a
> clear consensus on it. Or we said it might depend on the specific
> failure within the ignitor. Can't remember. I could be wrong, re the
> spark.
>
>> > 2.
>> > Failed main relay. But you say you hear the fuel pump running, so

> I'd
>> > lean towards 1. Also, it's usually an intermittent problem: The

> car is
>> > drivine for awhile, stopped, then won't start for awhile, then

> after
>> > sitting it will start.
>> >

>>
>> I'll second the main relay. The symptoms described by the original

> poster
>> are classic for a failed main relay, i.e., park it, let it set 5-15

> minutes,
>
> I thought he implied the car is dead right now; it ain't starting no
> way no how.
>
> That's why I leaned towards the ignitor.
>
>> then no start.

>
> He hears the fuel pump running, no?
>
> Anyway, as always this should be interesting.
>
>



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 29 Oct 2004, 05:11 pm
Caroline
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
> "Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote

snip
> > I believe that the original poster noted that he had spark. A

> failed
> > ignitor would yield a no spark conditon, correct?

>
> This point also came up a year or so ago. I thought there wasn't a
> clear consensus on it. Or we said it might depend on the specific
> failure within the ignitor. Can't remember. I could be wrong, re the
> spark.


Someone posted this link about Honda ignitors (among other things)
today:

http://techauto.tripod.com/s.htm

It backs up Eric: Failed ignitor = no spark.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 29 Oct 2004, 07:43 pm
vincin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

Thanks guys for your help. Sorry for the confusion. I wrote I put gas into
the carburetor meaning the throttle body /air intake plenum, after opening
both butterflies. I would say it’s probably the original distributor
ignitor. I have good spark, as well as I think plenty of fuel. After
hearing the fuel pump in the tank running I wonted to double check so I
removed the fuel pressure service fitting and turn the key. Gas shot out.
After locating the main relay, I turned the key and could hear the relay
opening and closing. The car has been sitting in my garage for about one
week. I still have what I started with. The motor turns over but just wont
start and run.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 30 Oct 2004, 05:56 pm
vincin
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

As I mentioned before the main fuel relay is working. I put more gas down
the intake and held the gas pedal to the floor. After about 1 minute of
the engine turning over, the motor finally started and ran for about 5
minutes. While it was running I sprayed intake cleaner into it and worked
the gas. I thought that everything was good now that it's running. Then it
shut off and didn’t start back up. Before doing any of this I cleared the
code in the computer. After it ran and shopped I checked the codes and got
nothing……

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 30 Oct 2004, 06:41 pm
Michael Pardee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

"vincin" <vincin63@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5993c708bc3f129b1b734b5c597a1e95@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> As I mentioned before the main fuel relay is working. I put more gas down
> the intake and held the gas pedal to the floor. After about 1 minute of
> the engine turning over, the motor finally started and ran for about 5
> minutes. While it was running I sprayed intake cleaner into it and worked
> the gas. I thought that everything was good now that it's running. Then it
> shut off and didn't start back up. Before doing any of this I cleared the
> code in the computer. After it ran and shopped I checked the codes and got
> nothing..
>

Not to stir up the evil spirits or anything, but if the problem isn't
ignition and fuel in the intake didn't make it just go "vroom - putt putt" I
am worried about the timing belt. If you pull the crank through all four
cylinders (CCW, remember) do they all feel like solid compression and they
spring past TDC, or does one or more feel soft? Of course, the real test of
belt timing is to turn the crank to #1 TDC and look at the position of the
cam sprocket(s).

It sure sounds like a jumped belt to me.

Mike


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 31 Oct 2004, 12:29 am
Eric
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 civic wont start ???

vincin wrote:
>
> As I mentioned before the main fuel relay is working. I put more gas down
> the intake and held the gas pedal to the floor. After about 1 minute of
> the engine turning over, the motor finally started and ran for about 5
> minutes. While it was running I sprayed intake cleaner into it and worked
> the gas. I thought that everything was good now that it's running. Then it
> shut off and didn’t start back up. Before doing any of this I cleared the
> code in the computer. After it ran and shopped I checked the codes and got
> nothing……


Try checking for vacuum leaks. Also check the engine's mechanical timing.

Eric
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