Honda Car Forum

Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97 Civic. It
has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now, and
the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of it,
has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine, it
just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would
really appreciate it.

Thanks,
Weldon

On 02/08/2010 07:07 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97 Civic. It
> has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now, and
> the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
> above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of it,
> has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
> cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine, it
> just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would
> really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Weldon
>
>

are the brake drums self-adjusting properly? can you hear them click
when you back them off, then pump with the brake pedal?

if you replaced the master cylinder, is the travel the same as it was
before?

Yes, the rear brakes are self adjusting, and they are adjusted properly. The
travel is the same with the new master cylinder.


"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Ctmdnc4CkpcUT-3WnZ2dnUVZ_tBi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
> On 02/08/2010 07:07 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
>> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97 Civic.
>> It
>> has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now,
>> and
>> the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
>> above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of
>> it,
>> has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
>> cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine, it
>> just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would
>> really appreciate it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Weldon
>>
>>
>
> are the brake drums self-adjusting properly? can you hear them click when
> you back them off, then pump with the brake pedal?
>
> if you replaced the master cylinder, is the travel the same as it was
> before?

On 02/08/2010 07:49 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
> Yes, the rear brakes are self adjusting, and they are adjusted properly.

i'll take your word for it, but how do you know? what did you check?


> The
> travel is the same with the new master cylinder.

in inches, how much travel before the brakes start to engage?


>
>
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:Ctmdnc4CkpcUT-3WnZ2dnUVZ_tBi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>> On 02/08/2010 07:07 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
>>> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97 Civic.
>>> It
>>> has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now,
>>> and
>>> the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
>>> above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of
>>> it,
>>> has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
>>> cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine, it
>>> just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would
>>> really appreciate it.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Weldon
>>>
>>>
>>
>> are the brake drums self-adjusting properly? can you hear them click when
>> you back them off, then pump with the brake pedal?
>>
>> if you replaced the master cylinder, is the travel the same as it was
>> before?
>
>

I removed the drums and checked the hardware, and verified the drag on the
drum.




"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:cOydnWB8ZLT7fe3WnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4p2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> On 02/08/2010 07:49 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
>> Yes, the rear brakes are self adjusting, and they are adjusted properly.
>
> i'll take your word for it, but how do you know? what did you check?
>
>
>> The
>> travel is the same with the new master cylinder.
>
> in inches, how much travel before the brakes start to engage?
>
>
>>
>>
>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:Ctmdnc4CkpcUT-3WnZ2dnUVZ_tBi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> On 02/08/2010 07:07 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
>>>> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97
>>>> Civic.
>>>> It
>>>> has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now,
>>>> and
>>>> the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
>>>> above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of
>>>> it,
>>>> has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
>>>> cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine,
>>>> it
>>>> just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I
>>>> would
>>>> really appreciate it.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Weldon
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> are the brake drums self-adjusting properly? can you hear them click
>>> when
>>> you back them off, then pump with the brake pedal?
>>>
>>> if you replaced the master cylinder, is the travel the same as it was
>>> before?
>>
>>
>

On 02/09/2010 06:42 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
> I removed the drums and checked the hardware, and verified the drag on the
> drum.

there shouldn't be any drag on the drum when properly adjusted. if the
threads on the adjuster screw are rusted or even greased, they can fail
to self-adjust. i recommend removal, cleaning, refitting, then checking
operation.

to check operation, reassemble screwed all the way in, then when
reassembled, press on the brake pedal 20 times. each time you release,
you should hear the self-adjuster click. then remove the drum again and
be sure you can see the adjuster has screwed itself out a few mm. if it
has, reassemble and pump the pedal until the clicking stops. you then
should be good. if not, you need to clean and reassemble again. no grease.

what is the pedal travel before engagement?



>
>
>
>
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:cOydnWB8ZLT7fe3WnZ2dnUVZ_uxi4p2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> On 02/08/2010 07:49 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
>>> Yes, the rear brakes are self adjusting, and they are adjusted properly.
>>
>> i'll take your word for it, but how do you know? what did you check?
>>
>>
>>> The
>>> travel is the same with the new master cylinder.
>>
>> in inches, how much travel before the brakes start to engage?
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Ctmdnc4CkpcUT-3WnZ2dnUVZ_tBi4p2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> On 02/08/2010 07:07 PM, wjcimbri wrote:
>>>>> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97
>>>>> Civic.
>>>>> It
>>>>> has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now,
>>>>> and
>>>>> the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
>>>>> above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of
>>>>> it,
>>>>> has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
>>>>> cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine,
>>>>> it
>>>>> just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I
>>>>> would
>>>>> really appreciate it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Weldon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> are the brake drums self-adjusting properly? can you hear them click
>>>> when
>>>> you back them off, then pump with the brake pedal?
>>>>
>>>> if you replaced the master cylinder, is the travel the same as it was
>>>> before?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

"wjcimbri" <wjcimbri@optonline.net> wrote in
news:4b70d17e$0$31284$607ed4bc@cv.net:

> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97
> Civic. It has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six
> months now, and the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just
> about an inch or two above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have
> bleed the hell out of it, has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I
> even replaced the master cylinder. The flex lines are good, no
> expansion. The brakes work fine, it just has a very low pedal. If
> anyone can shed some light on this, I would really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Weldon
>
>


I have LOTS to say on this one. but don't have the time just now to write
it up.

In short, you have numersous problems.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

On Feb 8, 10:07*pm, "wjcimbri" <wjcim...@optonline.net> wrote:
> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97 Civic.It
> has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now, and
> the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
> above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of it,
> has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
> cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine, it
> just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would
> really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
> Weldon

Given that the front disk pads engage the rotors before the rear shoes
engage the drum, and do 70-80% of the stopping, I think I would look
elsewhere besides the rear drums for clues to this issue.

On 02/11/2010 05:29 AM, Zorro_2k wrote:
> On Feb 8, 10:07�pm, "wjcimbri"<wjcim...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97 Civic. It
>> has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six months now, and
>> the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just about an inch or two
>> above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have bleed the hell out of it,
>> has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I even replaced the master
>> cylinder. The flex lines are good, no expansion. The brakes work fine, it
>> just has a very low pedal. If anyone can shed some light on this, I would
>> really appreciate it.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Weldon
>
> Given that the front disk pads engage the rotors before the rear shoes
> engage the drum,

actually, that's not true - the rears come on first, but the
proportioning valve applies progressively more to the fronts as the
pedal continues to be pressed.


> and do 70-80% of the stopping, I think I would look
> elsewhere besides the rear drums for clues to this issue.

other than air in the hydraulics, a problem with the hoses or some
serious caliper misalignment, maladjusted rears are the only place where
you can cause this kind of pedal travel.

"wjcimbri" <wjcimbri@optonline.net> wrote in
news:4b70d17e$0$31284$607ed4bc@cv.net:

> Hi Group, I have a question in regards to the brake pedal on my 97
> Civic. It has front disc, and rear drums. I have had the car for six
> months now, and the brake pedal has always been low. It stops just
> about an inch or two above the floor. The pedal is not spongy, I have
> bleed the hell out of it, has at least 50% left of pads and shoes, I
> even replaced the master cylinder. The flex lines are good, no
> expansion. The brakes work fine, it just has a very low pedal. If
> anyone can shed some light on this, I would really appreciate it.
>


A low pedal is indicative of several problems, which may or may not be
present in combination:

1) aftermarket pads (wrong friction-coefficient for your brakes);
2) pads not floating freely on their mount brackets;
3) calipers not floating freely on their pins;
4) one or more hydraulic pistons sticking in their bores;
5) rust buildup between caliper, pads, and squeal-shims;
6) persistent air bubble (usually in caliper);
7) misadjusted master cylinder pushrod.

Complete removal of air from the calipers is sometimes only possible by
using the "turn and tap" method, with the caliper off the rotor. This
usually only affects rear calipers though, which you don't have.

If you're looking for a "magic bullet" fix, you probably won't find one.
Your brakes need a good going-over by someone who understands how brakes
work.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/