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Old 14 Sep 2004, 11:03 pm
Eddy Celis
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Default Crank pulley key broke = engine replacement ?

My teenage son's 1993 Honda Del Sol SI made an horrible sound one
night and when he checked under the hood, the belt going to the
powersteering pump had come off and had wrapped itself around the
other belts and the pulley block. He removed the belt by cutting it
off, thinking he would be able to make it home without powersteering.
And the engine ran fine for a couple of miles. Then another noise came
from under the hood and the car died a minute later, with an empty
battery. We towed it home and later to a local Honda dealer to have it
fixed.
The diagnose was a broken key on the crankshaft pulley, damaged pulley
block and crankshaft. The service manager said the best way to go
would be to replace the engine by a newer one (the current one has
125K miles on it) for an estimate of 3600, plus tax.

A couple of questions for the technical people on this newsgroup;

1) We had this car serviced by that dealer about three months ago and
had the waterpump, timing belt and all the other belts replaced. Could
this service, if done wrong, have caused the current problem ? The way
I looked at this problem, the powersteering belt jumped off the
pulley, wrapped itself around the pulley, blocked it and because the
crank still wanted to spin, the key broke.
2) When I asked the service manager if this previous service could
have had anything to do with it, he claimed that the only way this can
happen is that my son had "gotten on it" and "blew" the engine. So
no... and the belt coming off was the last thing that happened he
claimed and had nothing to do with the problem. From my pov, he uses
the fact that a 17 year old drove the car as a way out. I don't there
is any way you could ever break the pulley key by "getting on it", or
is there ?
3) Is it better to replace the engine then trying to get this fixed ?

$3600 for a used (same) engine seems like a total rip-off. I found
used engines on the net for $800 and a local performance shop will put
it in for $300.
I was looking at buying an S2000 at that dealership next year (for
myself), but can I still trust this service department ?

Eddy
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 14 Sep 2004, 11:19 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Crank pulley key broke = engine replacement ?

Eddy Celis wrote:
> My teenage son's 1993 Honda Del Sol SI made an horrible sound one
> night and when he checked under the hood, the belt going to the
> powersteering pump had come off and had wrapped itself around the
> other belts and the pulley block. He removed the belt by cutting it
> off, thinking he would be able to make it home without powersteering.
> And the engine ran fine for a couple of miles. Then another noise came
> from under the hood and the car died a minute later, with an empty
> battery. We towed it home and later to a local Honda dealer to have it
> fixed.
> The diagnose was a broken key on the crankshaft pulley, damaged pulley
> block and crankshaft. The service manager said the best way to go
> would be to replace the engine by a newer one (the current one has
> 125K miles on it) for an estimate of 3600, plus tax.
>
> A couple of questions for the technical people on this newsgroup;
>
> 1) We had this car serviced by that dealer about three months ago and
> had the waterpump, timing belt and all the other belts replaced. Could
> this service, if done wrong, have caused the current problem ?


very likely. but /your/ problem is proving it. even if your son is not
a racer, the dealer will have a real good go at shouting you down on
this one.

> The way
> I looked at this problem, the powersteering belt jumped off the
> pulley, wrapped itself around the pulley, blocked it and because the
> crank still wanted to spin, the key broke.


sounds plausible, but for a key to break??? have you any idea of the
shear force necessary to break one of those things? if the diagnosis is
accurate, you'll have to replace the crank & pulley block, with all the
labor that involves. i've seen that kind of thing done with the motor
still in the car, but it's a real pita, especially for a transverse
motor like a honda, so i'd say replacement is the quickest solution,
unless you're ambitious & know what you're doing.

> 2) When I asked the service manager if this previous service could
> have had anything to do with it, he claimed that the only way this can
> happen is that my son had "gotten on it" and "blew" the engine. So
> no... and the belt coming off was the last thing that happened he
> claimed and had nothing to do with the problem. From my pov, he uses
> the fact that a 17 year old drove the car as a way out. I don't there
> is any way you could ever break the pulley key by "getting on it", or
> is there ?
> 3) Is it better to replace the engine then trying to get this fixed ?


probably. check prices with a reputable independent.

>
> $3600 for a used (same) engine seems like a total rip-off.


unless that's a remarkably hopped up motor, yes it is.

> I found
> used engines on the net for $800


for the si?

> and a local performance shop will put
> it in for $300.
> I was looking at buying an S2000 at that dealership next year (for
> myself), but can I still trust this service department ?


doubtful.

personally, i'd go to a different dealer & tell them /you/ were driving
and see if they have a different story. interesting to compare notes.

>
> Eddy


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15 Sep 2004, 12:58 am
Grumpy au Contraire
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Default Re: Crank pulley key broke = engine replacement ?



Eddy Celis wrote:
>
> My teenage son's 1993 Honda Del Sol SI made an horrible sound one
> night and when he checked under the hood, the belt going to the
> powersteering pump had come off and had wrapped itself around the
> other belts and the pulley block. He removed the belt by cutting it
> off, thinking he would be able to make it home without powersteering.
> And the engine ran fine for a couple of miles. Then another noise came
> from under the hood and the car died a minute later, with an empty
> battery. We towed it home and later to a local Honda dealer to have it
> fixed.
> The diagnose was a broken key on the crankshaft pulley, damaged pulley
> block and crankshaft. The service manager said the best way to go
> would be to replace the engine by a newer one (the current one has
> 125K miles on it) for an estimate of 3600, plus tax.
>
> A couple of questions for the technical people on this newsgroup;
>
> 1) We had this car serviced by that dealer about three months ago and
> had the waterpump, timing belt and all the other belts replaced. Could
> this service, if done wrong, have caused the current problem ? The way
> I looked at this problem, the powersteering belt jumped off the
> pulley, wrapped itself around the pulley, blocked it and because the
> crank still wanted to spin, the key broke.
> 2) When I asked the service manager if this previous service could
> have had anything to do with it, he claimed that the only way this can
> happen is that my son had "gotten on it" and "blew" the engine. So
> no... and the belt coming off was the last thing that happened he
> claimed and had nothing to do with the problem. From my pov, he uses
> the fact that a 17 year old drove the car as a way out. I don't there
> is any way you could ever break the pulley key by "getting on it", or
> is there ?
> 3) Is it better to replace the engine then trying to get this fixed ?
>
> $3600 for a used (same) engine seems like a total rip-off. I found
> used engines on the net for $800 and a local performance shop will put
> it in for $300.



Used engines direct from Japan are available for generally less than $1K
and usually have under 5K on them not to mention they come with a
warranty. There are a couple of companies that provide these engines
from low mileage cars in Japan.


http://www.parsausedengines.com/honda.html

http://www.usedengine.com/used_engines.asp


Don't bother with the dealer unless you can make them replace it for
free and it looks like they may be at fault...


> I was looking at buying an S2000 at that dealership next year (for
> myself), but can I still trust this service department ?
>
> Eddy


--
JT

Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 15 Sep 2004, 06:16 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Crank pulley key broke = engine replacement ?

In article <60d64722.0409141903.5fb8ac89@posting.google.com >,
ecelis@earthlink.net (Eddy Celis) wrote:

> 1) We had this car serviced by that dealer about three months ago and
> had the waterpump, timing belt and all the other belts replaced. Could
> this service, if done wrong, have caused the current problem ?


OH yeah.

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