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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 08:16 am
Ari Rankum
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Default 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few questions
that I hope the answers to which will help me find the problem. First,
a few statements of fact:

*The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
*The car usually starts right up with no issues.
*When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and trying
again is usually all that's required.
*The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice and
fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches intermitently as
if it weren't getting enough fuel.
*My plan of attack for this morning is a complete tune-up. I'm going to
replace cap, rotor, ignition wires, spark plugs, air and fuel filters.

Questions:
*What years did Honda have the well-known "igniter problem"? Could a
1993 Civic possibly be experiencing this?
*The fuel filter is the funkiest I've ever seen. The fittings look like
high pressure fittings. Anything to the procedure of replacing it that
one without a manual might want to watch out for?
*Anybody else got any ideas from your own experience about what may be
going on?

THANKS!

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 08:25 am
Jim Yanik
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

Ari Rankum <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:cfj_c.747$Va5.220@trnddc01:

> My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few questions
> that I hope the answers to which will help me find the problem. First,
> a few statements of fact:
>
> *The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
> *The car usually starts right up with no issues.
> *When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and trying
> again is usually all that's required.
> *The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice and
> fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches intermitently as
> if it weren't getting enough fuel.
> *My plan of attack for this morning is a complete tune-up. I'm going to
> replace cap, rotor, ignition wires, spark plugs, air and fuel filters.
>
> Questions:
> *What years did Honda have the well-known "igniter problem"? Could a
> 1993 Civic possibly be experiencing this?
> *The fuel filter is the funkiest I've ever seen. The fittings look like
> high pressure fittings. Anything to the procedure of replacing it that
> one without a manual might want to watch out for?
> *Anybody else got any ideas from your own experience about what may be
> going on?
>
> THANKS!
>
>


It's more likely the main relay,which activates the electric fuel pump.
Check out this site;
http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...main-relay.htm

Resoldering the relay saves you $50USD.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 09:16 am
motsco_ _
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

Ari Rankum wrote:
> My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. <SNIP>


*Anybody else got any ideas from your own experience about what may be
> going on?
>
> THANKS!


=========================

It's the Main relay, 99% sure. As for the other stuff, wires almost
never seem to need replacing, fuel filter only manifests while climbing
hill with full car at top speed, cap & rotor last a long time too. Save
your money for now, unless the cap is arcing or terminals are getting
burned up.
You can smack the dash to make it start when it acts up, with key in
position II. :-)

Don't try to remove the relay completely. With battery disconnected,
slip the guts out of the shell instead, using the connector for
something to wiggle it with.

'Curly'

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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 09:45 am
Ari Rankum
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Ari Rankum <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote in
> news:cfj_c.747$Va5.220@trnddc01:
>
>
>>My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few questions
>>that I hope the answers to which will help me find the problem. First,
>>a few statements of fact:
>>
>>*The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
>>*The car usually starts right up with no issues.
>>*When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and trying
>>again is usually all that's required.
>>*The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice and
>>fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches intermitently as
>>if it weren't getting enough fuel.
>>*My plan of attack for this morning is a complete tune-up. I'm going to
>>replace cap, rotor, ignition wires, spark plugs, air and fuel filters.
>>
>>Questions:
>>*What years did Honda have the well-known "igniter problem"? Could a
>>1993 Civic possibly be experiencing this?
>>*The fuel filter is the funkiest I've ever seen. The fittings look like
>>high pressure fittings. Anything to the procedure of replacing it that
>>one without a manual might want to watch out for?
>>*Anybody else got any ideas from your own experience about what may be
>>going on?
>>
>>THANKS!
>>
>>

>
>
> It's more likely the main relay,which activates the electric fuel pump.
> Check out this site;
> http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/elec...main-relay.htm
>
> Resoldering the relay saves you $50USD.


I appreciate the quick response and the useful link. I'll give that a
shot and get back to you. THANKS VERY MUCH.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 10:07 am
Caroline
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

If your car's symptoms are consistent with the symptoms given at the link Jim
gave, then I agree with the others the main relay is the likely culprit. If this
happens in hot weather in particular, the main relay is most likely the problem.

Re the igniter--
It tends to fail completely, so the car won't eventually restart. Yes, your 93
Civic may very well be among those that had this problem. If it's never been
replaced on your car, you might consider doing so as a pre-emptive measure.

Re the fuel filter:
www.autozone.com has free repair guides! Look for the "repair guides" link and
follow the pointers to fuel system or similar. Replacing the fuel filter should
be there. On my 1991 Civic, it was a little tricky fitting the wrenches to get
the thing out, but after doing it once, it's a piece of cake.

Another site you might like:
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/workshopmanuals2.html

Try the 1990-1994 Honda Concerto manual in particular. I think it has the same
engine as the early 1990s Civics. The steps for replacing the fuel filter should
be in there.

Updates welcome, to go into the archive and help others in the future.

Good luck!

"Ari Rankum" <ari_rankum@invalid.invalid> wrote
> My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few questions
> that I hope the answers to which will help me find the problem. First,
> a few statements of fact:
>
> *The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
> *The car usually starts right up with no issues.
> *When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and trying
> again is usually all that's required.
> *The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice and
> fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches intermitently as
> if it weren't getting enough fuel.
> *My plan of attack for this morning is a complete tune-up. I'm going to
> replace cap, rotor, ignition wires, spark plugs, air and fuel filters.
>
> Questions:
> *What years did Honda have the well-known "igniter problem"? Could a
> 1993 Civic possibly be experiencing this?
> *The fuel filter is the funkiest I've ever seen. The fittings look like
> high pressure fittings. Anything to the procedure of replacing it that
> one without a manual might want to watch out for?
> *Anybody else got any ideas from your own experience about what may be
> going on?



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 12:30 pm
Graham W
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

Ari Rankum wrote:
> My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few questions
> that I hope the answers to which will help me find the problem.
> First, a few statements of fact:
>
> *The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
> *The car usually starts right up with no issues.
> *When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and trying
> again is usually all that's required.
> *The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice and
> fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches intermitently
> as if it weren't getting enough fuel.
> *My plan of attack for this morning is a complete tune-up. I'm going
> to replace cap, rotor, ignition wires, spark plugs, air and fuel
> filters.
>
> Questions:
> *What years did Honda have the well-known "igniter problem"? Could a
> 1993 Civic possibly be experiencing this?
> *The fuel filter is the funkiest I've ever seen. The fittings look
> like high pressure fittings. Anything to the procedure of replacing
> it that one without a manual might want to watch out for?
> *Anybody else got any ideas from your own experience about what may be
> going on?


I'd lay money on it being the distributor cap! Clean it off with an oily
rag and see if that produces consistent starting. If it does, it is your
choice whether to clean it up properly, in the sink, with soap and water,
thoroughly dry and then a silicone polish to seal the surface inside and
out.

I was disappointed in reading other respondants suggestions about the
Main Relay that none of them offered you an easy way of seeing or
rather hearing if the Main Relay dry joint is a likely problem.

What you need to do is turn the radio off and the heater/AC too to get
a quiet environment in the car prior to starting. Turn the key to position
II
and listen for the fuel pump running during the time that the Check Engine
Light is lit. If it runs, the Main Relay isn't the problem. Easy huh?

Let us all know what you find.

--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 02:19 pm
Jim Yanik
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

"Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote in
news:4139fbb0$0$620$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:

> Ari Rankum wrote:
>> My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few
>> questions that I hope the answers to which will help me find the
>> problem. First, a few statements of fact:
>>
>> *The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
>> *The car usually starts right up with no issues.
>> *When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and trying
>> again is usually all that's required.
>> *The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice
>> and fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches
>> intermitently as if it weren't getting enough fuel.


..
>
> I was disappointed in reading other respondants suggestions about the
> Main Relay that none of them offered you an easy way of seeing or
> rather hearing if the Main Relay dry joint is a likely problem.


The main relay is such a common problem,why not resolder it and be certain
it's eliminated as a source of trouble? It doen't cost anything except a
little time.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik-at-kua.net
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 02:32 pm
Ari Rankum
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote in
> news:4139fbb0$0$620$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
>
>
>>Ari Rankum wrote:
>>
>>>My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few
>>>questions that I hope the answers to which will help me find the
>>>problem. First, a few statements of fact:
>>>
>>>*The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
>>>*The car usually starts right up with no issues.
>>>*When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and trying
>>>again is usually all that's required.
>>>*The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice
>>>and fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches
>>>intermitently as if it weren't getting enough fuel.

>
>
> .
>
>>I was disappointed in reading other respondants suggestions about the
>>Main Relay that none of them offered you an easy way of seeing or
>>rather hearing if the Main Relay dry joint is a likely problem.

>
>
> The main relay is such a common problem,why not resolder it and be certain
> it's eliminated as a source of trouble? It doen't cost anything except a
> little time.
>


I really do appreciate all the quick help. THANK YOU ALL.

As to listening for the fuel pump running, I did that before I posted.
I didn't hear it, but I didn't know and couldn't recall if the fuel pump
on this car is audible. So, in summary, when I turned it to II before
getting to work, I heard nothing. I also did not try just jumpering
around the relay to see if I heard anything. I probably should have.

Now comes the disappointing part of the summary. I also didn't post
until after I bought everything for a complete tune-up. So, in addition
to resoldering all the joints on the main relay assembly as described in
the main relay link, (EXCELLENT LINK BTW - the symptoms there were a
much better description of what was going on with my wife's car than I
managed to put in my post. SPECIAL THANKS to Jim Yanik for posting
that. It was perfect), I also did the complete tune-up.

As soon as I was done with wires, plugs, fuel filter, air filter, cap,
rotor, and resoldering all the main relay connections, it started right
up. We'll drive it around for a week or so and post again regarding
whether this was an actual fix or a pretty good, but incorrect, guess.

THANKS AGAIN for all the great help. I really appreciate it.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 03:43 pm
Graham W
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

Jim Yanik wrote:
> "Graham W" <graham@his.com.puter.INVALID> wrote in
> news:4139fbb0$0$620$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader01.plus.net:
>
>> Ari Rankum wrote:
>>> My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. I have a few
>>> questions that I hope the answers to which will help me find the
>>> problem. First, a few statements of fact:
>>>
>>> *The car is a Civic DX with a manual trans.
>>> *The car usually starts right up with no issues.
>>> *When it does not immediately start, waiting a few minutes and
>>> trying again is usually all that's required.
>>> *The problem "feels" like a fuel delivery problem. It cranks nice
>>> and fast. When it does finally start, it sometimes catches
>>> intermitently as if it weren't getting enough fuel.

>
> .
>>
>> I was disappointed in reading other respondants suggestions about the
>> Main Relay that none of them offered you an easy way of seeing or
>> rather hearing if the Main Relay dry joint is a likely problem.

>
> The main relay is such a common problem,why not resolder it and be
> certain it's eliminated as a source of trouble? It doen't cost
> anything except a little time.


Err.. "..If it ain't broke, don't fix it.." comes to mind which is pretty
close to "..If it ain't broke, fix it till it is!..".

8)

--
Graham W http://www.gcw.org.uk/ PGM-FI page updated, Graphics Tutorial
WIMBORNE http://www.wessex-astro-society.freeserve.co.uk/ Wessex
Dorset UK Astro Society's Web pages, Info, Meeting Dates, Sites & Maps
Change 'news' to 'sewn' in my Reply address to avoid my spam filter.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04 Sep 2004, 04:14 pm
Terry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 1993 Civic Hard Starting Problem

"motsco_ _" <"motsco_ _"@interbaun.com> wrote in message news:<4139CE40.3070809@interbaun.com>...
> Ari Rankum wrote:
> > My wife's 93 Civic is sometimes hard to start. <SNIP>

>
> *Anybody else got any ideas from your own experience about what may be
> > going on?
> >
> > THANKS!

>
> =========================
>
> It's the Main relay, 99% sure. As for the other stuff, wires almost
> never seem to need replacing, fuel filter only manifests while climbing
> hill with full car at top speed, cap & rotor last a long time too. Save
> your money for now, unless the cap is arcing or terminals are getting
> burned up.
> You can smack the dash to make it start when it acts up, with key in
> position II. :-)
>
> Don't try to remove the relay completely. With battery disconnected,
> slip the guts out of the shell instead, using the connector for
> something to wiggle it with.
>
> 'Curly'


Kind of hard to resolder the likely bad connections with the relay in
the socket.
A better idea would be to dislconnect the negaitve lead, remoce the
realy(removing the coin tray and the hood latch will help(as will a
trained spider monkey, it is a little tight for a 6'2" person!),remove
the fuse tray cover and remove the entire bracket, it is held in place
with a 10mm bolt.
Remove the relay, carefully remove the pritned circuit/realy assembbly
from the plast case, if you don't know how to solder find someone who
does.
It is too easy to overheat and lossen the copper foil. Remove the old
solder with either solder wick or a solder sucker, resolder with good
quality rosin core(DO NOT USE ACID CORE!!!!!!), one site sugested
protecting thhe soldered surfaces with "silicon confromal spray", andI
think that is a good choice, be sure to tape the relays so that spray
will NOT get on them.
I found the reinstallation the hardest part, Imy big hands just had
major problems getting the 10mm bolt started.
I found this site
http://techauto.tripod.com/
to be vdery helpfull, too bad the link on the ignitor page to
"bench testing" was dead.
And yes the fuel system is under pretyy high preasure, you don't want
a leak
sparying gas all under the hood. replace the wahsers under the "Banjo"
coneectors and the 10mm? bleed bolt, place a celan cloth around and
under the fuel filet to catch any seepage, turn 1 turn an allow
preasurised fuel to esacpe BEFORE losening the "banjo bolts"!
The data I have (from F-Basic testing) is for a 1993 specific but says
it is for ALL fuel injected Civics gives 40~47 with the vacuum hose
disconnected,a nd 30~38 with the vacuum hose conencted. This is at
idel.
Terry
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