Honda Car Forum

There I was, on the way home from the airport Thursday night after a week
out of town on business when my 'check engine' light comes on (2000
Accord).... I immediately dial up the dealership, where they advise me to
bring it in asap. I tell them Ill drop it off that night at the key drop so
they could look at it the next day. When I arrive at the house from the
airport and exit the car, I smell gas fumes, so I pop the gas latch and the
gas cap is very loose, almost a quarter turn loose in fact. I tighten it up
and noticed (unbelievably for the first time) the written warning on the gas
cap that a loose cap will set off the engine light..... well, I think to
myself, there's the problem. But being a little paranoid, I decide to take
the car into the dealership in any case. When I drop off the keys, I write
on the form that the engine light came on but soon afterwards I noticed the
cap was loose.... This morning and the tech called me and told me that they
hooked the car up 'to the computers' and everything was cool, that it was
the gas cap that set off the engine light.

Fast forward to this evening when I go and pick the car up..... and to my
complete amazement, they charged me $86 dollars for the diagnostic test.
Mind you they did no actual work, just ran the test. I was livid. I
couldn't believe that they charged me almost a hundred dollars to tell me
that my gas cap was loose (note that I bought the car at this
dealership).... don't get me wrong, Im all about compensating someone for
their time, but I called an independent Honda shop where even they were
shocked at this price, and told me they would have probably not charged me
anything, maybe the standard $30.00 fee if I wasn't a regular customer (i.e.
didn't have anything else done).

Question: Am I off base to be upset here? I have calls into the tech that
did the 'test' and the manager of the service department for some kind of
explanation. It would seem that they could have reasoned that it was the
loose cap that tripped the light (since I wrote it down for them), reset the
light and fired up the car. No light = problem solved. Light comes back on
= a different problem, therefore testing required

Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have learned my
lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda fan, but this has
soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were going in to look at
Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not now.

brian drake
charlotte, nc

"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3meTc.255051$2o2.14971387@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> There I was, on the way home from the airport Thursday night after a week
> out of town on business when my 'check engine' light comes on
/////snipped////



CAVEAT EMPTOR!


don't know what that means? put those two words in a
search engine and start reading the results.


Dee

"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3meTc.255051$2o2.14971387@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> Fast forward to this evening when I go and pick the car up..... and to my
> complete amazement, they charged me $86 dollars for the diagnostic test.
> Mind you they did no actual work, just ran the test.

I'm sure the tech appreciates your attitude.

Well I am going to side with Honda on this one. Personally I do my own work
and if a check engine light comes on I will get the code and troubleshoot it
with the Honda service manual I bought.

I do think a little common sense should have prevailed here and those
without common sense, even for a moment, pay for it out of their wallets
generally.

Now if you were stranded in the middle of nowhere and all you needed was a
couple gallons of gas, how much would you pay for that gas. What is the
highest amount of money you would pay to get you back on the road and safely
home? Probably quite a bit. I would be willing to bet it would be a lot
more than the actual cost of 2 gallons of gas. The dealership gave you
peace of mind by saying your car was ok.

So now you take your car in that your obviously VERY worried about, the
dealership thinks it probably is the cap but what if they send you out after
clearing the light and the light comes on again for something else? You
would be pissed as hell. The dealership did work on your car by hooking it
up to a computer and checking the system. They probably also wiggled and
jiggled a few things under the hood to cover their butts in case something
else was wrong.

If you knew there was a loose gas cap and the gas cap says make sure it
isn't loose because a light could be triggered then I think everybody is
even.

CaptainKrunch






"Brian Drake" <nospambdrake1@carolina.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3meTc.255051$2o2.14971387@twister.southeast.r r.com...
> There I was, on the way home from the airport Thursday night after a week
> out of town on business when my 'check engine' light comes on (2000
> Accord).... I immediately dial up the dealership, where they advise me to
> bring it in asap. I tell them Ill drop it off that night at the key drop
so
> they could look at it the next day. When I arrive at the house from the
> airport and exit the car, I smell gas fumes, so I pop the gas latch and
the
> gas cap is very loose, almost a quarter turn loose in fact. I tighten it
up
> and noticed (unbelievably for the first time) the written warning on the
gas
> cap that a loose cap will set off the engine light..... well, I think to
> myself, there's the problem. But being a little paranoid, I decide to
take
> the car into the dealership in any case. When I drop off the keys, I
write
> on the form that the engine light came on but soon afterwards I noticed
the
> cap was loose.... This morning and the tech called me and told me that
they
> hooked the car up 'to the computers' and everything was cool, that it was
> the gas cap that set off the engine light.
>
> Fast forward to this evening when I go and pick the car up..... and to my
> complete amazement, they charged me $86 dollars for the diagnostic test.
> Mind you they did no actual work, just ran the test. I was livid. I
> couldn't believe that they charged me almost a hundred dollars to tell me
> that my gas cap was loose (note that I bought the car at this
> dealership).... don't get me wrong, Im all about compensating someone for
> their time, but I called an independent Honda shop where even they were
> shocked at this price, and told me they would have probably not charged me
> anything, maybe the standard $30.00 fee if I wasn't a regular customer
(i.e.
> didn't have anything else done).
>
> Question: Am I off base to be upset here? I have calls into the tech that
> did the 'test' and the manager of the service department for some kind of
> explanation. It would seem that they could have reasoned that it was the
> loose cap that tripped the light (since I wrote it down for them), reset
the
> light and fired up the car. No light = problem solved. Light comes back
on
> = a different problem, therefore testing required
>
> Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have learned my
> lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda fan, but this
has
> soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were going in to look at
> Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not now.
>
> brian drake
> charlotte, nc
>
>

Yeah, $86 for a check engine light is quite a bit. Maybe prices have
gone up since I last took my car in to a dealership, but the last time I
did I spent only $40. This was at a Saturn dealership.

If you have any AutoZone stores in your area, they can check the service
engine light for you for free...provided they have the equipment.

-AGS

On Friday, August 13, 2004 8:59 PM, Brian Drake wrote:
> There I was, on the way home from the airport Thursday night after a
> week out of town on business when my 'check engine' light comes on
> (2000 Accord).... I immediately dial up the dealership, where they
> advise me to bring it in asap. I tell them Ill drop it off that
> night at the key drop so they could look at it the next day. When I
> arrive at the house from the airport and exit the car, I smell gas
> fumes, so I pop the gas latch and the gas cap is very loose, almost a
> quarter turn loose in fact. I tighten it up and noticed
> (unbelievably for the first time) the written warning on the gas cap
> that a loose cap will set off the engine light..... well, I think to
> myself, there's the problem. But being a little paranoid, I decide
> to take the car into the dealership in any case. When I drop off the
> keys, I write on the form that the engine light came on but soon
> afterwards I noticed the cap was loose.... This morning and the tech
> called me and told me that they hooked the car up 'to the computers'
> and everything was cool, that it was the gas cap that set off the
> engine light.
>
> Fast forward to this evening when I go and pick the car up..... and
> to my complete amazement, they charged me $86 dollars for the
> diagnostic test.
> Mind you they did no actual work, just ran the test. I was livid. I
> couldn't believe that they charged me almost a hundred dollars to
> tell me that my gas cap was loose (note that I bought the car at this
> dealership).... don't get me wrong, Im all about compensating
> someone for their time, but I called an independent Honda shop where
> even they were shocked at this price, and told me they would have
> probably not charged me anything, maybe the standard $30.00 fee if I
> wasn't a regular customer (i.e.
> didn't have anything else done).
>
> Question: Am I off base to be upset here? I have calls into the tech
> that did the 'test' and the manager of the service department for
> some kind of explanation. It would seem that they could have
> reasoned that it was the loose cap that tripped the light (since I
> wrote it down for them), reset the light and fired up the car. No
> light = problem solved. Light comes back on = a different problem,
> therefore testing required
>
> Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> now.
>
> brian drake
> charlotte, nc

In article <raSdnb3_qf9Cu4PcRVn-qw@comcast.com> "AGS"
<ags0082@no.spam.yahoo.com> writes:

>Yeah, $86 for a check engine light is quite a bit. Maybe prices have
>gone up since I last took my car in to a dealership, but the last time I
>did I spent only $40. This was at a Saturn dealership.

>If you have any AutoZone stores in your area, they can check the service
>engine light for you for free...provided they have the equipment.

*All* AutoZone stores in the USA have an OBD-II compatible scan tool and
can read and interpret the codes from any vehicle 1996 and newer. And yes,
they will gladly do it for free. However, not everyone that works there
knows how.... (altho it's pretty simple).

and yes, $86 is certainly on the high side. But then maybe it was only
$59.95 but he got zapped with the bullshit "shop supplies" charge and of
course the obligatory sales tax.

> > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> > now.
> >
> > brian drake
> > charlotte, nc
>
> --

so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
by the way????
Chip

On 8/14/2004 8:01 PM Chip Stein spake these words of knowledge:


>> > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
>> > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
>> > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
>> > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
>> > now.
>> >
>> > brian drake
>> > charlotte, nc
>>
>> --
>
> so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
> time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
> not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
> equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
> about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
> by the way????
> Chip


No, Chip; that's not how it works. Nor is that how it *used* to work.
Here's how it *did* used to work. When you had a problem, you took it
to someone you trusted to be competent, and trusted not to **** you too
hard on the cost. If they couldn't diagnose the problem, they didn't
charge you. If they did diagnose the problem, they told you what it
was. If you couldn't get it fixed right then, you didn't; you would
usually pay some sort of fee for the diagnosis at this time, or you left
with the understanding that when you did get it fixed, you would do it
at that shop. They trusted you to be fair and honest with them.

If you did get it fixed right then, you did it there; you trusted them
to be fair and honest with you.

If there wasn't any actual problem, say something like the problem
outlined by the originating poster of a loose gascap, they told you, you
said thanks, and went home. When you had a problem in the future, you
remembered how you were treated and took it back to the same shop.

No one's time or labor is thought to be worthless; you have working
people who trust the shop to be competent, fair and honest, and you have
repair shop personnel who trust that their customers will recognize
value received and become satisfied, repeat customers.

In contrast, I was charged $279 not long ago for an oil change, tire
rotation, and a list of 'inspections' which took roughly six minutes to
perform on my Odyssey, by the Honda shop. Unfortunately, there is only
one in my area, and no one else I trust to do these inspections.

It's free enterprise, of course; I don't have to take my Honda there for
service. But it isn't right, not by a long shot.

I know you asked Brian this question, but I'm going to answer; I have a
company that services computers, and does networking and other
computer-related work (www.wetumpkatechnology.com). Not long ago, I was
called to a law office to diagnose a computer problem. Although I spent
two hours, I was unable to determine the cause of the problem. My
hourly rate is $90, but in this case I chose not to charge even the $35
rate I charge just to show up. I told them that I didn't find, much
less fix, the problem. I told them (well, wrote down for them) what to
say to the manufacturer to take the next step in resolving it.

That law firm has become one of my best customers; I have worked on
their systems, and worked on the home PCs of some of the employees as well.

Because they trust me not to **** 'em over on the price, and not to
bullshit with them. Because I took a chance and didn't charge them when
I couldn't help them.

This economic model works; older people will tell you that that's how it
used to work all the time. It still does - or can.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
"The best years of your life are the ones in which you decide your
problems are your own. You do not blame them on your mother, the
ecology or the president. You realize that you control your own
destiny." -- Albert Ellis

Attn to Dave Kelsen-->Best response I've seen on a newsgroup in a long time
I agree 100% with your views.
I still remember the time a long time ago a "DRL" (Daytime Running Light)
error message appeared on the dash of my wife's Nissan Sentra. This was
when they were first being introduced to the regular market. I (falsely)
assumed it was an electrical problem and brought it to the Nissan dealer.
15 minutes later I was given a bill of around $40. ($15 light bulb, $20
labour + taxes). Yep. They actually charged me $20 for changing a light
bulb. I know I should have checked the damn bulb first and it was stupid of
me, but I wasn't thinking. Anyways, I paid the bill, but NEVER returned to
the dealership for service again. My next car was a Honda because I was so
upset over the bill despite the fact I was pleased overall with that little
Sentra. It's that type of gouging that turns people off. EVERY single
mechanic my father ever dealt with would have replaced the bulb, laughed
at/teased him for missing the obvious and ONLY charged for the part.
I know businesses don't make money by doing everything for free. But
common sense would/should let a service manager know when to let the little
things slide for nothing. But then again, common sense would/should have
told me to check the damn bulb in the first place:-)


http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/desjar







"Dave Kelsen" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:wCBTc.34465$wM.11543@twister.tampabay.rr.com. ..
> On 8/14/2004 8:01 PM Chip Stein spake these words of knowledge:
>
>
> >> > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> >> > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> >> > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> >> > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> >> > now.
> >> >
> >> > brian drake
> >> > charlotte, nc
> >>
> >> --
> >
> > so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
> > time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
> > not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
> > equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
> > about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
> > by the way????
> > Chip
>
>
> No, Chip; that's not how it works. Nor is that how it *used* to work.
> Here's how it *did* used to work. When you had a problem, you took it
> to someone you trusted to be competent, and trusted not to **** you too
> hard on the cost. If they couldn't diagnose the problem, they didn't
> charge you. If they did diagnose the problem, they told you what it
> was. If you couldn't get it fixed right then, you didn't; you would
> usually pay some sort of fee for the diagnosis at this time, or you left
> with the understanding that when you did get it fixed, you would do it
> at that shop. They trusted you to be fair and honest with them.
>
> If you did get it fixed right then, you did it there; you trusted them
> to be fair and honest with you.
>
> If there wasn't any actual problem, say something like the problem
> outlined by the originating poster of a loose gascap, they told you, you
> said thanks, and went home. When you had a problem in the future, you
> remembered how you were treated and took it back to the same shop.
>
> No one's time or labor is thought to be worthless; you have working
> people who trust the shop to be competent, fair and honest, and you have
> repair shop personnel who trust that their customers will recognize
> value received and become satisfied, repeat customers.
>
> In contrast, I was charged $279 not long ago for an oil change, tire
> rotation, and a list of 'inspections' which took roughly six minutes to
> perform on my Odyssey, by the Honda shop. Unfortunately, there is only
> one in my area, and no one else I trust to do these inspections.
>
> It's free enterprise, of course; I don't have to take my Honda there for
> service. But it isn't right, not by a long shot.
>
> I know you asked Brian this question, but I'm going to answer; I have a
> company that services computers, and does networking and other
> computer-related work (www.wetumpkatechnology.com). Not long ago, I was
> called to a law office to diagnose a computer problem. Although I spent
> two hours, I was unable to determine the cause of the problem. My
> hourly rate is $90, but in this case I chose not to charge even the $35
> rate I charge just to show up. I told them that I didn't find, much
> less fix, the problem. I told them (well, wrote down for them) what to
> say to the manufacturer to take the next step in resolving it.
>
> That law firm has become one of my best customers; I have worked on
> their systems, and worked on the home PCs of some of the employees as
well.
>
> Because they trust me not to **** 'em over on the price, and not to
> bullshit with them. Because I took a chance and didn't charge them when
> I couldn't help them.
>
> This economic model works; older people will tell you that that's how it
> used to work all the time. It still does - or can.
>
>
> RFT!!!
> Dave Kelsen
> --
> "The best years of your life are the ones in which you decide your
> problems are your own. You do not blame them on your mother, the
> ecology or the president. You realize that you control your own
> destiny." -- Albert Ellis

I'm in the banking / finance business. As I said in my original post, I
believe that some type of compensation was due since it did take up some of
their time, but 86.00 is excessive to the point of robbery plus I thing they
could have reset the light for me and sent me on my way without all the
testing (since I told them what happened). 6000.00 doesn't seem like very
much to me for a piece of diagnostic equipment, but assuming your right,
that means that at those outragous prices, they could pay off the machine in
roughly 69 loose gas cap visits, and the rest is profit (not including labor
costs).

Something else I noticed was some type of organized labor logo on the
'customer satisfaction' letter I had in my car after the work was
performed..... that could be the full explanation right there, I don't
remember this being a Union shop in the past. I am told by some that the
dealerships have 'set costs' that they charge for things no matter how long
they actually take to perform, which means they probably 'estimate' that an
issue such as this takes 30 min to work on..... so they rip me a new one on
the 86.00 spend 15 minutes on it and move on to the next sucker and double
their profit per hour, etc. Sucks, but I'll chalk this one up to an
expensive lesson.




"Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote in message
news:5ddcea74.0408141701.6c65267a@posting.google.c om...
> > > Yes, I know, it was stupid to take it to the dealer and I have
> > > learned my lesson, but it still stings pretty bad. I am a huge Honda
> > > fan, but this has soured me a little.... funny thing is that we were
> > > going in to look at Odysseys at that dealership this weekend, not
> > > now.
> > >
> > > brian drake
> > > charlotte, nc
> >
> > --
>
> so what you are saying is that the tech's time and the dealerships
> time is worth nothing. the fact that you left your gas cap loose is
> not their problem, it's yours! and it should cost you. that piece of
> equipment they read your codes with is called the HDS and costs them
> about 6000.00. it has to get paid for. what line of work are you in
> by the way????
> Chip