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Old 13 Jul 2004, 02:49 pm
M.A. Stewart
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Default Ontario emission test,FLUNKED,then PASSED,then PASSED again,WHY?

This car flunked the Prov. of Ontario's Drive Clean Test (ASM 2525 test)
and then passed it 12 minutes later, and then passed it again 12 minutes
later. The only difference was the gear that the car was operated in. In
the first test the car was operated in 3RD gear (1800 RPM), and in the 2
following tests the car was operated in 2ND gear (2700 RPM). The ASM2525
does tests at 40KPH (25MPH).

Why did 2ND gear make the difference?

The problem area in the first test was NOx.

The details:

1987 Honda Accord S (Hatchback), 5 Speed, carburettor. Manufactured in
Japan. 1987 CANADIAN Emission Specs. (less emission components than
similar USA market 1987 Accords).

The fuel in the car was premium grade gas. The EGR valve had been serviced
in previous week (minor deposits cleaned out). The ignition timing was 2.5
degrees retarded from the retarded range of the spec. (timing spec. as per
hood label, 20 degrees BTDC plus or minus 2 degrees, both hot advance and
cold advance hoses connected, at 750 RPM). The timing was 15.5 degrees.

The speculation was that the cat was hotter during the second and third
test. The car has the original (simple) cat. It is unknown whether the
original cat is a reduction cat.

Another speculation was that there was more EGR flow at the higher RPM.
The car was road tested later with a MityVac tee'd into the the EGR vacuum
signal. The EGR pintle has approximately 0.50 inch full lift (0.50 inch is
more of a guess) at 5.50" to 6.00" HG. Repeated road tests showed 2.50",
2.70" HG at 1800 RPM, 3RD gear (40 KMH, 25 MPH), and 2.90", 3.05" HG at
2700 RPM, 2ND gear (40 KMH, 25 MPH). A higher vacuum signal was there at
higher RPM's (although only slightly).

TEST NUMBER ONE (3rd gear)

40 KMH(25 MPH)
HC ppm limit 130 Reading 45 result PASS
CO% limit 0.73 Reading 0.03 result PASS
NOx ppm limit 1482 Reading 2084 result FAIL
RPM Reading 1826 result VALID
Dilution 13.23 result VALID

CURB IDLE
HC ppm limit 300 Reading 40 result PASS
CO% limit 1.5 Reading 0.00 result PASS
NOx not tested at Curb Idle
RPM Reading 798 result VALID
Dilution Reading 12.70 result VALID

TEST NUMBER TWO (2nd gear)

Lost the results... they were similar to test number three

TEST NUMBER THREE (2nd gear)

40 KMH(25MPH)
HC ppm limit 130 Reading 33 result PASS
CO% limit 0.73 Reading 0.03 result PASS
NOx ppm limit 1482 Reading 1069 result PASS
RPM Reading 2721 result VALID
Dilution 12.62 result VALID

CURB IDLE
HC ppm limit 300 Reading 39 result PASS
CO% limit 1.5 Reading 0.00 result PASS
NOx not tested at Curb Idle
RPM Reading 748 result VALID
Dilution Reading 12.30 result VALID

Note: ppm = Parts Per Million

Any ideas why the car passed in 2ND gear?


M.A. Stewart

P.S. Please don't reply by e-mail to cf005... the spam filter bounces
all incoming e-mails.

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Old 13 Jul 2004, 04:21 pm
Artfulcodger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Ontario emission test,FLUNKED,then PASSED,then PASSED again,WHY?

M.A. Stewart wrote:
> This car flunked the Prov. of Ontario's Drive Clean Test (ASM 2525
> test) and then passed it 12 minutes later, and then passed it again
> 12 minutes later. The only difference was the gear that the car was
> operated in. In the first test the car was operated in 3RD gear (1800
> RPM), and in the 2 following tests the car was operated in 2ND gear
> (2700 RPM). The ASM2525 does tests at 40KPH (25MPH).
>
> Why did 2ND gear make the difference?
>
> The problem area in the first test was NOx.
>
> The details:
>
> 1987 Honda Accord S (Hatchback), 5 Speed, carburettor. Manufactured in
> Japan. 1987 CANADIAN Emission Specs. (less emission components than
> similar USA market 1987 Accords).
>
> The fuel in the car was premium grade gas. The EGR valve had been
> serviced in previous week (minor deposits cleaned out). The ignition
> timing was 2.5 degrees retarded from the retarded range of the spec.
> (timing spec. as per hood label, 20 degrees BTDC plus or minus 2
> degrees, both hot advance and cold advance hoses connected, at 750
> RPM). The timing was 15.5 degrees.
>
> The speculation was that the cat was hotter during the second and
> third test. The car has the original (simple) cat. It is unknown
> whether the original cat is a reduction cat.
>
> Another speculation was that there was more EGR flow at the higher
> RPM. The car was road tested later with a MityVac tee'd into the the
> EGR vacuum signal. The EGR pintle has approximately 0.50 inch full
> lift (0.50 inch is more of a guess) at 5.50" to 6.00" HG. Repeated
> road tests showed 2.50",
> 2.70" HG at 1800 RPM, 3RD gear (40 KMH, 25 MPH), and 2.90", 3.05" HG
> at 2700 RPM, 2ND gear (40 KMH, 25 MPH). A higher vacuum signal was
> there at higher RPM's (although only slightly).
>
> TEST NUMBER ONE (3rd gear)
>
> 40 KMH(25 MPH)
> HC ppm limit 130 Reading 45 result PASS
> CO% limit 0.73 Reading 0.03 result PASS
> NOx ppm limit 1482 Reading 2084 result FAIL
> RPM Reading 1826 result VALID
> Dilution 13.23 result VALID
>
> CURB IDLE
> HC ppm limit 300 Reading 40 result PASS
> CO% limit 1.5 Reading 0.00 result PASS
> NOx not tested at Curb Idle
> RPM Reading 798 result VALID
> Dilution Reading 12.70 result VALID
>
> TEST NUMBER TWO (2nd gear)
>
> Lost the results... they were similar to test number three
>
> TEST NUMBER THREE (2nd gear)
>
> 40 KMH(25MPH)
> HC ppm limit 130 Reading 33 result PASS
> CO% limit 0.73 Reading 0.03 result PASS
> NOx ppm limit 1482 Reading 1069 result PASS
> RPM Reading 2721 result VALID
> Dilution 12.62 result VALID
>
> CURB IDLE
> HC ppm limit 300 Reading 39 result PASS
> CO% limit 1.5 Reading 0.00 result PASS
> NOx not tested at Curb Idle
> RPM Reading 748 result VALID
> Dilution Reading 12.30 result VALID
>
> Note: ppm = Parts Per Million
>
> Any ideas why the car passed in 2ND gear?
>
>
> M.A. Stewart
>
> P.S. Please don't reply by e-mail to cf005... the spam filter bounces
> all incoming e-mails.


I know of cases where a car fails because the overhead door was open and a
wind coming in. When the overhead door was closed the car passed. This was
told to me by a very close friend who is a mechanic and saw this occur.

The point is there are external factors to take into consideration on an
emissions test.


MB


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