Honda Car Forum

jim beam wrote:
> Keith W wrote:
>> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:Fq2dnZfSDJizxjfXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:cvSdndyvkKKUyjfXnZ2dnUVZ_oD_fwAA@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>> "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:e5e6af87-acdf-46ee-9407-cf9731913ccb@k39g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Keith W" <invalidaddr...@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> I would therefore argue that "a
>>>>>>> couple of minutes" wait could well result in overfilling whatever
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> manufacturer says.
>>>>>> What if the manufacturer designed the lines on the dipstick for
>>>>>> readings with the engine warm and shut off for a few minutes?
>>>>> wha??? like it says in the owner's manual you mean???
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Given
>>>>>> how the owner's manuals speak of checking the level at every fillup,
>>>>>> it makes sense that the dipstick lines would be so designed.
>>>>> wow!!!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> If that was the case, it would be impossible to get the correct
>>>>>> level after an oil change 'cos it goes in cold and straight to the
>>>>>> bottom.
>>>>> indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>> this is an unbelievably retarded thread. just read the freakin'
>>>>> manual - something that seems incredibly hard for some people to
>>>>> do. but because i'm an anal pedant, i'll quote exactly what it says
>>>>> in mine:
>>>>>
>>>>> "engine oil and filter
>>>>>
>>>>> checking
>>>>>
>>>>> check the engine oil a couple of minutes after shutting the engine
>>>>> off, with the car parked on level ground. remove the dipstick and
>>>>> wipe it clean. re-insert it all the way down, then pull it out and
>>>>> read the level. the level should be between the upper and lower
>>>>> marks."
>>>>>
>>>>> nothing about "waiting for all the oil to run down" [ha ha freakin'
>>>>> ha] or "thermal expansion" or even "keep it at the top mark".
>>>>>
>>>>> so, next time you're in the gas station, after you've filled up,
>>>>> take advantage of the fact that you're on level ground and have
>>>>> been standing with the engine off for a couple of minutes, and the
>>>>> free wipes, to check the freakin' oil. even a retard can do it.
>>>>>
>>>> I suggest you test that method out first. As I said in an earlier
>>>> post, after my CRV had been standing for over 15 minutes after only
>>>> a short run of the engine, the reading was midway between min and
>>>> max. Checked cold the next morning, before running, the level was
>>>> a shade above max. I don't care what the handbook says, that is my
>>>> personal experience and, had I topped up when getting the first
>>>> reading, the vehicle would have been overfilled. Try it yourself
>>>> and see.
>>> 1. i have - there's no significant change.
>>>
>>> 2. honda know more than you. thus if it says "check the engine oil a
>>> couple of minutes after shutting the engine off, with the car parked
>>> on level ground", that /doesn't/ mean "second-guess with a head full
>>> of superstitious bullshit".
>>>
>>> read the owner's manual keith. it was written for people just like you.
>>
>> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50
>> years of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say
>> but I don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works
>> for me and that is my main concern. The only other point that I
>> would add is that the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in
>> Ottershaw only a week or so previous to my check and they would have
>> put in the correct amount of oil. Whilst the oil showed a level
>> midway between min and max after stopping the engine and standing for
>> the aforementioned three to four minutes (actually it was nearer
>> fifteen), it showed smack on max the next morning. You may call it
>> superstitious bullshit but it would have resulted in overfilling had I
>> followed it.
>
> it's not "overfilling"!!!! dude, please try to understand, any reading
> that is /not/ taken per the owners manual is not correct. there's a
> massive difference in oil level between the correct and incorrect way to
> read a detroit auto transmission level, but you wouldn't try to are

correction: "argue"

> that
> they're both right would you?
>
> this is why the manufacturer spends the time and money providing you
> with a manual. if you didn't need it because all your 1950
> superstitions were relevant, it wouldn't be necessary!

"Keith W" <invalidaddress@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote in message
news:h8gju7$1qu$1@news.albasani.net...
>
> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50 years
> of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say but I
> don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works for me and
> that is my main concern. The only other point that I would add is that
> the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in Ottershaw only a week or
> so previous to my check and they would have put in the correct amount of
> oil. Whilst the oil showed a level midway between min and max after
> stopping the engine and standing for the aforementioned three to four
> minutes (actually it was nearer fifteen), it showed smack on max the next
> morning. You may call it superstitious bullshit but it would have
> resulted in overfilling had I followed it.


But HOW would it have resulted in over-filling? If the reading was between
min and max, why would you add anything?

Where does it say you should add oil when observing a midway reading? You
only add at min or below.

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:f6OdnQEA8_P5RTbXnZ2dnUVZ_gli4p2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> jim beam wrote:
>> Keith W wrote:
>>> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:Fq2dnZfSDJizxjfXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:cvSdndyvkKKUyjfXnZ2dnUVZ_oD_fwAA@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>>> "Elle" <honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:e5e6af87-acdf-46ee-9407-cf9731913ccb@k39g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>> "Keith W" <invalidaddr...@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> I would therefore argue that "a
>>>>>>>> couple of minutes" wait could well result in overfilling whatever
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> manufacturer says.
>>>>>>> What if the manufacturer designed the lines on the dipstick for
>>>>>>> readings with the engine warm and shut off for a few minutes?
>>>>>> wha??? like it says in the owner's manual you mean???
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Given
>>>>>>> how the owner's manuals speak of checking the level at every fillup,
>>>>>>> it makes sense that the dipstick lines would be so designed.
>>>>>> wow!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If that was the case, it would be impossible to get the correct
>>>>>>> level after an oil change 'cos it goes in cold and straight to the
>>>>>>> bottom.
>>>>>> indeed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> this is an unbelievably retarded thread. just read the freakin'
>>>>>> manual - something that seems incredibly hard for some people to do.
>>>>>> but because i'm an anal pedant, i'll quote exactly what it says in
>>>>>> mine:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "engine oil and filter
>>>>>>
>>>>>> checking
>>>>>>
>>>>>> check the engine oil a couple of minutes after shutting the engine
>>>>>> off, with the car parked on level ground. remove the dipstick and
>>>>>> wipe it clean. re-insert it all the way down, then pull it out and
>>>>>> read the level. the level should be between the upper and lower
>>>>>> marks."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> nothing about "waiting for all the oil to run down" [ha ha freakin'
>>>>>> ha] or "thermal expansion" or even "keep it at the top mark".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> so, next time you're in the gas station, after you've filled up, take
>>>>>> advantage of the fact that you're on level ground and have been
>>>>>> standing with the engine off for a couple of minutes, and the free
>>>>>> wipes, to check the freakin' oil. even a retard can do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest you test that method out first. As I said in an earlier
>>>>> post, after my CRV had been standing for over 15 minutes after only a
>>>>> short run of the engine, the reading was midway between min and max.
>>>>> Checked cold the next morning, before running, the level was a shade
>>>>> above max. I don't care what the handbook says, that is my personal
>>>>> experience and, had I topped up when getting the first reading, the
>>>>> vehicle would have been overfilled. Try it yourself and see.
>>>> 1. i have - there's no significant change.
>>>>
>>>> 2. honda know more than you. thus if it says "check the engine oil a
>>>> couple of minutes after shutting the engine off, with the car parked on
>>>> level ground", that /doesn't/ mean "second-guess with a head full of
>>>> superstitious bullshit".
>>>>
>>>> read the owner's manual keith. it was written for people just like
>>>> you.
>>>
>>> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50
>>> years of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say
>>> but I don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works for
>>> me and that is my main concern. The only other point that I would add
>>> is that the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in Ottershaw only
>>> a week or so previous to my check and they would have put in the correct
>>> amount of oil. Whilst the oil showed a level midway between min and max
>>> after stopping the engine and standing for the aforementioned three to
>>> four minutes (actually it was nearer fifteen), it showed smack on max
>>> the next morning. You may call it superstitious bullshit but it would
>>> have resulted in overfilling had I followed it.
>>
>> it's not "overfilling"!!!! dude, please try to understand, any reading
>> that is /not/ taken per the owners manual is not correct. there's a
>> massive difference in oil level between the correct and incorrect way to
>> read a detroit auto transmission level, but you wouldn't try to are
>
> correction: "argue"
>
>> that they're both right would you?
>>
>> this is why the manufacturer spends the time and money providing you with
>> a manual. if you didn't need it because all your 1950 superstitions were
>> relevant, it wouldn't be necessary!

I am not arguing either way. Simply saying that I will use the method I
have always used. I see what you are saying about the manual but I still
come back to the fact that the oil only reaches the full mark when it has
stood for a long time. The undeniable fact is that I only got that reading
by leaving it. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one
because my own experience of my Honda makes me regard the manual, however
expertly written and well meant, as questionable on this point. Curiously,
the manual for our other car, a Peugeot 406, advises checking the oil
before the car is started and warns that checking when the car has recently
been used will give inaccurate readings.
--
Keith W
Sunbury on Thames
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living)

"Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:h8gmku$cu6$1@news.eternal-september.org...
> "Keith W" <invalidaddress@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote in message
> news:h8gju7$1qu$1@news.albasani.net...
>>
>> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50
>> years of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say
>> but I don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works for
>> me and that is my main concern. The only other point that I would add
>> is that the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in Ottershaw only
>> a week or so previous to my check and they would have put in the correct
>> amount of oil. Whilst the oil showed a level midway between min and max
>> after stopping the engine and standing for the aforementioned three to
>> four minutes (actually it was nearer fifteen), it showed smack on max the
>> next morning. You may call it superstitious bullshit but it would have
>> resulted in overfilling had I followed it.
>
>
> But HOW would it have resulted in over-filling? If the reading was between
> min and max, why would you add anything?
>
> Where does it say you should add oil when observing a midway reading? You
> only add at min or below.
>


Where does it say that you shouldn't? I suspect that many people, having
taken a reading on the garage forecourt and finding it halfway down to the
minimum, would indeed put more in to avoid it dropping too far. You may
know that you should only add at the min level but the average motorist
would probably regard halfway down as needing a top up.
--
Keith W
Sunbury on Thames
(If you can't laugh at life, it ain't worth living)

"Keith W" <invalidaddress@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote in message
news:h8gp8g$a0s$1@news.albasani.net...
>
> "Seth" <seth_lermanNOSPAM@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:h8gmku$cu6$1@news.eternal-september.org...
>> "Keith W" <invalidaddress@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:h8gju7$1qu$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>
>>> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50
>>> years of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say
>>> but I don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works for
>>> me and that is my main concern. The only other point that I would add
>>> is that the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in Ottershaw only
>>> a week or so previous to my check and they would have put in the correct
>>> amount of oil. Whilst the oil showed a level midway between min and max
>>> after stopping the engine and standing for the aforementioned three to
>>> four minutes (actually it was nearer fifteen), it showed smack on max
>>> the next morning. You may call it superstitious bullshit but it would
>>> have resulted in overfilling had I followed it.
>>
>> But HOW would it have resulted in over-filling? If the reading was
>> between min and max, why would you add anything?
>>
>> Where does it say you should add oil when observing a midway reading? You
>> only add at min or below.
>
> Where does it say that you shouldn't? I suspect that many people, having
> taken a reading on the garage forecourt and finding it halfway down to the
> minimum, would indeed put more in to avoid it dropping too far. You may
> know that you should only add at the min level but the average motorist
> would probably regard halfway down as needing a top up.


Maybe it's a logic issue then. I see no reason to add when it's "between
the lines". If I was supposed to add when it's below the "max" line, then
the shaded area between the lines would be labeled "add oil" while the line
below min would be labeled "holy crap that's low".

I see max and say to myself, stay away from there cause you could go over.
Between the lines is the "perfect medium". Not too high, not too low.

On 09/12/2009 11:23 AM, Keith W wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:f6OdnQEA8_P5RTbXnZ2dnUVZ_gli4p2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:Fq2dnZfSDJizxjfXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:cvSdndyvkKKUyjfXnZ2dnUVZ_oD_fwAA@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>>>> "Elle"<honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:e5e6af87-acdf-46ee-9407-cf9731913ccb@k39g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>> "Keith W"<invalidaddr...@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I would therefore argue that "a
>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes" wait could well result in overfilling whatever
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> manufacturer says.
>>>>>>>> What if the manufacturer designed the lines on the dipstick for
>>>>>>>> readings with the engine warm and shut off for a few minutes?
>>>>>>> wha??? like it says in the owner's manual you mean???
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Given
>>>>>>>> how the owner's manuals speak of checking the level at every fillup,
>>>>>>>> it makes sense that the dipstick lines would be so designed.
>>>>>>> wow!!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If that was the case, it would be impossible to get the correct
>>>>>>>> level after an oil change 'cos it goes in cold and straight to the
>>>>>>>> bottom.
>>>>>>> indeed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this is an unbelievably retarded thread. just read the freakin'
>>>>>>> manual - something that seems incredibly hard for some people to do.
>>>>>>> but because i'm an anal pedant, i'll quote exactly what it says in
>>>>>>> mine:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "engine oil and filter
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> checking
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> check the engine oil a couple of minutes after shutting the engine
>>>>>>> off, with the car parked on level ground. remove the dipstick and
>>>>>>> wipe it clean. re-insert it all the way down, then pull it out and
>>>>>>> read the level. the level should be between the upper and lower
>>>>>>> marks."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> nothing about "waiting for all the oil to run down" [ha ha freakin'
>>>>>>> ha] or "thermal expansion" or even "keep it at the top mark".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> so, next time you're in the gas station, after you've filled up, take
>>>>>>> advantage of the fact that you're on level ground and have been
>>>>>>> standing with the engine off for a couple of minutes, and the free
>>>>>>> wipes, to check the freakin' oil. even a retard can do it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suggest you test that method out first. As I said in an earlier
>>>>>> post, after my CRV had been standing for over 15 minutes after only a
>>>>>> short run of the engine, the reading was midway between min and max.
>>>>>> Checked cold the next morning, before running, the level was a shade
>>>>>> above max. I don't care what the handbook says, that is my personal
>>>>>> experience and, had I topped up when getting the first reading, the
>>>>>> vehicle would have been overfilled. Try it yourself and see.
>>>>> 1. i have - there's no significant change.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. honda know more than you. thus if it says "check the engine oil a
>>>>> couple of minutes after shutting the engine off, with the car parked on
>>>>> level ground", that /doesn't/ mean "second-guess with a head full of
>>>>> superstitious bullshit".
>>>>>
>>>>> read the owner's manual keith. it was written for people just like
>>>>> you.
>>>>
>>>> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50
>>>> years of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say
>>>> but I don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works for
>>>> me and that is my main concern. The only other point that I would add
>>>> is that the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in Ottershaw only
>>>> a week or so previous to my check and they would have put in the correct
>>>> amount of oil. Whilst the oil showed a level midway between min and max
>>>> after stopping the engine and standing for the aforementioned three to
>>>> four minutes (actually it was nearer fifteen), it showed smack on max
>>>> the next morning. You may call it superstitious bullshit but it would
>>>> have resulted in overfilling had I followed it.
>>>
>>> it's not "overfilling"!!!! dude, please try to understand, any reading
>>> that is /not/ taken per the owners manual is not correct. there's a
>>> massive difference in oil level between the correct and incorrect way to
>>> read a detroit auto transmission level, but you wouldn't try to are
>>
>> correction: "argue"
>>
>>> that they're both right would you?
>>>
>>> this is why the manufacturer spends the time and money providing you with
>>> a manual. if you didn't need it because all your 1950 superstitions were
>>> relevant, it wouldn't be necessary!
>
> I am not arguing either way. Simply saying that I will use the method I
> have always used. I see what you are saying about the manual but I still
> come back to the fact that the oil only reaches the full mark when it has
> stood for a long time.

dude, that's not "full". that's "been standing a long time". "full" is
when it's at the top mark a couple of minutes after switch off. like it
says in the book.


> The undeniable fact is that I only got that reading
> by leaving it. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one
> because my own experience of my Honda makes me regard the manual, however
> expertly written and well meant, as questionable on this point.

so how do you dip the transmission on a detroit vehicle? what reading
do you "believe"?


> Curiously,
> the manual for our other car, a Peugeot 406, advises checking the oil
> before the car is started and warns that checking when the car has recently
> been used will give inaccurate readings.

that's because /that/ vehicles system is calibrated that way - the honda
is not!!! that's why you need to do it the way it says in the book!!!

"jim beam" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:Vq6dnXJP2tU_mTHXnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> On 09/12/2009 11:23 AM, Keith W wrote:
>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:f6OdnQEA8_P5RTbXnZ2dnUVZ_gli4p2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>> news:Fq2dnZfSDJizxjfXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:cvSdndyvkKKUyjfXnZ2dnUVZ_oD_fwAA@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>>>>> "Elle"<honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:e5e6af87-acdf-46ee-9407-cf9731913ccb@k39g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>> "Keith W"<invalidaddr...@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> I would therefore argue that "a
>>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes" wait could well result in overfilling whatever
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer says.
>>>>>>>>> What if the manufacturer designed the lines on the dipstick for
>>>>>>>>> readings with the engine warm and shut off for a few minutes?
>>>>>>>> wha??? like it says in the owner's manual you mean???
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given
>>>>>>>>> how the owner's manuals speak of checking the level at every
>>>>>>>>> fillup,
>>>>>>>>> it makes sense that the dipstick lines would be so designed.
>>>>>>>> wow!!!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If that was the case, it would be impossible to get the correct
>>>>>>>>> level after an oil change 'cos it goes in cold and straight to the
>>>>>>>>> bottom.
>>>>>>>> indeed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> this is an unbelievably retarded thread. just read the freakin'
>>>>>>>> manual - something that seems incredibly hard for some people to
>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>> but because i'm an anal pedant, i'll quote exactly what it says in
>>>>>>>> mine:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "engine oil and filter
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> checking
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> check the engine oil a couple of minutes after shutting the engine
>>>>>>>> off, with the car parked on level ground. remove the dipstick and
>>>>>>>> wipe it clean. re-insert it all the way down, then pull it out and
>>>>>>>> read the level. the level should be between the upper and lower
>>>>>>>> marks."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> nothing about "waiting for all the oil to run down" [ha ha freakin'
>>>>>>>> ha] or "thermal expansion" or even "keep it at the top mark".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> so, next time you're in the gas station, after you've filled up,
>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>> advantage of the fact that you're on level ground and have been
>>>>>>>> standing with the engine off for a couple of minutes, and the free
>>>>>>>> wipes, to check the freakin' oil. even a retard can do it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest you test that method out first. As I said in an earlier
>>>>>>> post, after my CRV had been standing for over 15 minutes after only
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> short run of the engine, the reading was midway between min and max.
>>>>>>> Checked cold the next morning, before running, the level was a shade
>>>>>>> above max. I don't care what the handbook says, that is my
>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>> experience and, had I topped up when getting the first reading, the
>>>>>>> vehicle would have been overfilled. Try it yourself and see.
>>>>>> 1. i have - there's no significant change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. honda know more than you. thus if it says "check the engine oil a
>>>>>> couple of minutes after shutting the engine off, with the car parked
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> level ground", that /doesn't/ mean "second-guess with a head full of
>>>>>> superstitious bullshit".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> read the owner's manual keith. it was written for people just like
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50
>>>>> years of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say
>>>>> but I don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works
>>>>> for
>>>>> me and that is my main concern. The only other point that I would
>>>>> add
>>>>> is that the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in Ottershaw
>>>>> only
>>>>> a week or so previous to my check and they would have put in the
>>>>> correct
>>>>> amount of oil. Whilst the oil showed a level midway between min and
>>>>> max
>>>>> after stopping the engine and standing for the aforementioned three to
>>>>> four minutes (actually it was nearer fifteen), it showed smack on max
>>>>> the next morning. You may call it superstitious bullshit but it
>>>>> would
>>>>> have resulted in overfilling had I followed it.
>>>>
>>>> it's not "overfilling"!!!! dude, please try to understand, any reading
>>>> that is /not/ taken per the owners manual is not correct. there's a
>>>> massive difference in oil level between the correct and incorrect way
>>>> to
>>>> read a detroit auto transmission level, but you wouldn't try to are
>>>
>>> correction: "argue"
>>>
>>>> that they're both right would you?
>>>>
>>>> this is why the manufacturer spends the time and money providing you
>>>> with
>>>> a manual. if you didn't need it because all your 1950 superstitions
>>>> were
>>>> relevant, it wouldn't be necessary!
>>
>> I am not arguing either way. Simply saying that I will use the method I
>> have always used. I see what you are saying about the manual but I
>> still
>> come back to the fact that the oil only reaches the full mark when it has
>> stood for a long time.
>
> dude, that's not "full". that's "been standing a long time". "full" is
> when it's at the top mark a couple of minutes after switch off. like it
> says in the book.

Then why have a Max marking when the level is supposed to go above that
later on? Surely that is a nearly Max mark, which makes no sense at all.

>
>
>> The undeniable fact is that I only got that reading
>> by leaving it. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one
>> because my own experience of my Honda makes me regard the manual, however
>> expertly written and well meant, as questionable on this point.
>
> so how do you dip the transmission on a detroit vehicle? what reading do
> you "believe"?

I haven't the foggiest idea what a Detroit vehicle is. I assume you are
referring to automatic transmission which is rare over here as we mainly use
manual gearboxes. You check the oil in those by crawling underneath the
vehicle and squirting oil into the filler hole (which is in the side of the
box) until it starts to run out. Simple but your back aches afterwards.

>
>
>> Curiously,
>> the manual for our other car, a Peugeot 406, advises checking the oil
>> before the car is started and warns that checking when the car has
>> recently
>> been used will give inaccurate readings.
>
> that's because /that/ vehicles system is calibrated that way - the honda
> is not!!! that's why you need to do it the way it says in the book!!!

Which leaves the question of why, when it had only a few days before been
serviced by a reputable Honda agent, does it reach the Max mark only after
standing for a longer time. By that reckoning it should be above the mark
by then.

To be honest, I don't think, from what we have discussed, that it makes that
much difference. Next time I am at the agents I will quiz them on it.

I am not trying to be bloody minded. I am, more than anything, puzzled why
Honda should be different to every other car I have owned. I have also
seen the problems that can be caused by over filling, something to be
avoided like the plague.

Keith

On 09/13/2009 04:03 AM, Keith W wrote:
> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:Vq6dnXJP2tU_mTHXnZ2dnUVZ_s2dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> On 09/12/2009 11:23 AM, Keith W wrote:
>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:f6OdnQEA8_P5RTbXnZ2dnUVZ_gli4p2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>> jim beam wrote:
>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:Fq2dnZfSDJizxjfXnZ2dnUVZ_tednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>>>> "jim beam"<me@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:cvSdndyvkKKUyjfXnZ2dnUVZ_oD_fwAA@speakeasy.ne t...
>>>>>>>>> Keith W wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> "Elle"<honda.lioness@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:e5e6af87-acdf-46ee-9407-cf9731913ccb@k39g2000yqe.googlegroups.com...
>>>>>>>>>> "Keith W"<invalidaddr...@invalidaddress.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I would therefore argue that "a
>>>>>>>>>>> couple of minutes" wait could well result in overfilling whatever
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> manufacturer says.
>>>>>>>>>> What if the manufacturer designed the lines on the dipstick for
>>>>>>>>>> readings with the engine warm and shut off for a few minutes?
>>>>>>>>> wha??? like it says in the owner's manual you mean???
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given
>>>>>>>>>> how the owner's manuals speak of checking the level at every
>>>>>>>>>> fillup,
>>>>>>>>>> it makes sense that the dipstick lines would be so designed.
>>>>>>>>> wow!!!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If that was the case, it would be impossible to get the correct
>>>>>>>>>> level after an oil change 'cos it goes in cold and straight to the
>>>>>>>>>> bottom.
>>>>>>>>> indeed.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> this is an unbelievably retarded thread. just read the freakin'
>>>>>>>>> manual - something that seems incredibly hard for some people to
>>>>>>>>> do.
>>>>>>>>> but because i'm an anal pedant, i'll quote exactly what it says in
>>>>>>>>> mine:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> "engine oil and filter
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> checking
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> check the engine oil a couple of minutes after shutting the engine
>>>>>>>>> off, with the car parked on level ground. remove the dipstick and
>>>>>>>>> wipe it clean. re-insert it all the way down, then pull it out and
>>>>>>>>> read the level. the level should be between the upper and lower
>>>>>>>>> marks."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> nothing about "waiting for all the oil to run down" [ha ha freakin'
>>>>>>>>> ha] or "thermal expansion" or even "keep it at the top mark".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> so, next time you're in the gas station, after you've filled up,
>>>>>>>>> take
>>>>>>>>> advantage of the fact that you're on level ground and have been
>>>>>>>>> standing with the engine off for a couple of minutes, and the free
>>>>>>>>> wipes, to check the freakin' oil. even a retard can do it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suggest you test that method out first. As I said in an earlier
>>>>>>>> post, after my CRV had been standing for over 15 minutes after only
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> short run of the engine, the reading was midway between min and max.
>>>>>>>> Checked cold the next morning, before running, the level was a shade
>>>>>>>> above max. I don't care what the handbook says, that is my
>>>>>>>> personal
>>>>>>>> experience and, had I topped up when getting the first reading, the
>>>>>>>> vehicle would have been overfilled. Try it yourself and see.
>>>>>>> 1. i have - there's no significant change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2. honda know more than you. thus if it says "check the engine oil a
>>>>>>> couple of minutes after shutting the engine off, with the car parked
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> level ground", that /doesn't/ mean "second-guess with a head full of
>>>>>>> superstitious bullshit".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> read the owner's manual keith. it was written for people just like
>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can only repeat (and rely) on personal experience built up over 50
>>>>>> years of owning and servicing my own vehicles. I accept what you say
>>>>>> but I don't necessarily have to follow or agree with it. It works
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> me and that is my main concern. The only other point that I would
>>>>>> add
>>>>>> is that the vehicle had been serviced by Trident Honda in Ottershaw
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> a week or so previous to my check and they would have put in the
>>>>>> correct
>>>>>> amount of oil. Whilst the oil showed a level midway between min and
>>>>>> max
>>>>>> after stopping the engine and standing for the aforementioned three to
>>>>>> four minutes (actually it was nearer fifteen), it showed smack on max
>>>>>> the next morning. You may call it superstitious bullshit but it
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> have resulted in overfilling had I followed it.
>>>>>
>>>>> it's not "overfilling"!!!! dude, please try to understand, any reading
>>>>> that is /not/ taken per the owners manual is not correct. there's a
>>>>> massive difference in oil level between the correct and incorrect way
>>>>> to
>>>>> read a detroit auto transmission level, but you wouldn't try to are
>>>>
>>>> correction: "argue"
>>>>
>>>>> that they're both right would you?
>>>>>
>>>>> this is why the manufacturer spends the time and money providing you
>>>>> with
>>>>> a manual. if you didn't need it because all your 1950 superstitions
>>>>> were
>>>>> relevant, it wouldn't be necessary!
>>>
>>> I am not arguing either way. Simply saying that I will use the method I
>>> have always used. I see what you are saying about the manual but I
>>> still
>>> come back to the fact that the oil only reaches the full mark when it has
>>> stood for a long time.
>>
>> dude, that's not "full". that's "been standing a long time". "full" is
>> when it's at the top mark a couple of minutes after switch off. like it
>> says in the book.
>
> Then why have a Max marking when the level is supposed to go above that
> later on? Surely that is a nearly Max mark, which makes no sense at all.

it makes sense if you read the manual!!! the whole point of measuring
/anything/ is that you're able to do so in a way that is not only
accurate, but consistent. you don't use a rubber tape measure for this
reason. you get much more consistency measuring oil level at full
working temp, on level ground, a couple of minutes after shutdown - just
like it says in the honda book! all other readings, as you have proven,
are arbitrary and INCONSISTENT.


>
>>
>>
>>> The undeniable fact is that I only got that reading
>>> by leaving it. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one
>>> because my own experience of my Honda makes me regard the manual, however
>>> expertly written and well meant, as questionable on this point.
>>
>> so how do you dip the transmission on a detroit vehicle? what reading do
>> you "believe"?
>
> I haven't the foggiest idea what a Detroit vehicle is. I assume you are
> referring to automatic transmission which is rare over here as we mainly use
> manual gearboxes. You check the oil in those by crawling underneath the
> vehicle and squirting oil into the filler hole (which is in the side of the
> box) until it starts to run out. Simple but your back aches afterwards.

jeepers. logic. get some..

the point is, detroit transmissions typically require dipping with the
pump working. if you dip with the engine off, the level is /way/ above
the mark. you have to dip according to instructions to get it right!


>
>>
>>
>>> Curiously,
>>> the manual for our other car, a Peugeot 406, advises checking the oil
>>> before the car is started and warns that checking when the car has
>>> recently
>>> been used will give inaccurate readings.
>>
>> that's because /that/ vehicles system is calibrated that way - the honda
>> is not!!! that's why you need to do it the way it says in the book!!!
>
> Which leaves the question of why, when it had only a few days before been
> serviced by a reputable Honda agent, does it reach the Max mark only after
> standing for a longer time. By that reckoning it should be above the mark
> by then.

eh?


>
> To be honest, I don't think, from what we have discussed, that it makes that
> much difference. Next time I am at the agents I will quiz them on it.
>
> I am not trying to be bloody minded. I am, more than anything, puzzled why
> Honda should be different to every other car I have owned.

have you ever considered the possibility that it's because they actually
know what they're doing???


> I have also
> seen the problems that can be caused by over filling, something to be
> avoided like the plague.

like avoiding the owners manual like the plague?