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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05 Jun 2004, 04:41 pm
Caroline
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Default Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps
retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft pulley
bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but with
a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back together,
I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat concerned
about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a
chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?

A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
salvage yards for less, if need be.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 12:41 am
Kevin McMurtrie
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Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

In article <56rwc.22529$Tn6.20740@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net>,
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

> I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that
> helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft
> pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but
> with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back
> together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat
> concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with
> a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.



I broke a chunk off the pulley of a Toyota Tercel and it was OK. Your
car is old so the damage probably isn't significant compared to general
aging problems.

Somebody might weld it and grind it into shape for about $20.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 02:29 am
George Macdonald
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Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 21:41:21 GMT, "Caroline"
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

>I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
>crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that helps
>retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft pulley
>bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon) but with
>a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back together,
>I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat concerned
>about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around with a
>chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be taking?


I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.

>A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a few
>salvage yards for less, if need be.


I'm not sure about relative sizes but, rather than getting the exact same
pulley, it'd be worth looking for a replacement with a 50mm hex socket in
it... *if* there's one available in the right diameter. Then you'll be
able to use a pulley holder tool in future.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 03:29 am
Eric
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Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

George Macdonald wrote:
>
> I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
> concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
> it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
> pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
> which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
> vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.


Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
material as on the Accords of the same year.

Eric
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 09:15 am
Caroline
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Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> George Macdonald wrote:
> >
> > I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
> > concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
> > it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
> > pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
> > which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
> > vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.

>
> Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
> material as on the Accords of the same year.


Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current
pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot
of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about.
I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder
tool can be had for under $30.

For posterity--
I'm going to try to fabricate a better tool in the next few days, along the
lines of what Eric has described in the past. I tried the two high grade, fine
thread bolts (with nuts) in the pulley periphery holes and then jamming various
bars/pipes between them in the suspension, like that shown at
http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html , but the pulley on the
car pictured there is a little different. I got too much 'play' with the bolt
setup, and so while proceeding slowly things kept slipping at the pulley. (The
web sites's two ten-inch long, 1/2 inch extensions, supported by a jack with a
long breaker bar and then a five-foot pipe extension on the breaker bar, worked
well, though. I should easily get the necessary torque, once I get the pulley
secured.)


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 09:35 am
tflfb
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Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley
to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over
night.

If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible
to remove it with sandpaper after it drys.

Tom.


"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:56rwc.22529$Tn6.20740@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
> I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that

helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft

pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon)

but with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back

together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat

concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around

with a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be

taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a

few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.
>
>



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 09:46 am
Caroline
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

"tflfb" wrote:
> Do you have the old piece, if so I would get some JB Weld, rotate the pulley
> to a position where it could be refastened with JB Weld, and let it sit over
> night.
>
> If a little of the cement squishes out to the belt side, it may be possible
> to remove it with sandpaper after it drys.


Yes, I do have the old piece. I'll read up on JB Weld's strength characteristics
and assess the risk if the "weld" does not hold and the little piece goes flying
off. (It's about 1.5" of pulley arc length" x 9/16" x 1/8".) Thanks.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 04:15 pm
lamont
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Posts: n/a
Default i have a chipped pulley , n o problems with it.


"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:56rwc.22529$Tn6.20740@newsread1.news.pas.eart hlink.net...
>I accidentally chipped 0.3 ounce of steel off the edge of my 91 Civic's
> crankshaft pulley today. The chunk that came off is part of the edge that
> helps
> retain the power steering belt. I did this trying to get the crankshaft
> pulley
> bolt off (as I want to go after some seals that will require this soon)
> but with
> a bit too much jury-rigging, obviously. After putting everything back
> together,
> I took the car for a short drive. It sounds fine. Still, I am somewhat
> concerned
> about the crankshaft system's proper balance. Anyone else driving around
> with a
> chipped pulley? Other thoughts on the risk to the engine I might be
> taking?
>
> A new pulley will cost me $100. I figure I can get a second-hand one at a
> few
> salvage yards for less, if need be.
>
>



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 07:07 pm
George Macdonald
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 14:15:12 GMT, "Caroline"
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

>"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
>> George Macdonald wrote:
>> >
>> > I don't think any weight imbalance will bother you but I'd be more
>> > concerned that any ragged edge could chew up the belt - keep your eye on
>> > it. The other thing is that whatever you were doing around the rim of the
>> > pulley, any force there, could have damaged the rubber damping material
>> > which is bonded between the pulley rim and hub. It's there to damp out
>> > vibrations which can damage crankshaft bearings.

>>
>> Just so you know, a '91 Civic has a solid pulley. There's no rubber damping
>> material as on the Accords of the same year.


Sure about that? Just because you can't see any rubber band doesn't mean
it's not there.

>Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
>belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the current
>pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a lot
>of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking about.
>I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley holder
>tool can be had for under $30.


It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
reference here.

Rgds, George Macdonald

"Just because they're paranoid doesn't mean you're not psychotic" - Who, me??
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06 Jun 2004, 07:45 pm
Caroline
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Chipped Crankshaft Pulley

"George Macdonald" <fammacd=!SPAM^nothanks@tellurian.com> wrote
Caroline wrote
snip
> >Thanks, Kevin, George, and Eric. I'll keep a close eye on the power steering
> >belt. I'll also consider the interchangeability (esp. diameters) of the

current
> >pulley with other Honda models' 50 mm (or so?) hex socket version. After a

lot
> >of reading on this over the last few months, I know what you're talking

about.
> >I'm seeing tools for my pulley for some $70 or so, while the other pulley

holder
> >tool can be had for under $30.

>
> It's 50mm according to service manuals. I hadn't seen any tools for the
> pulleys without the hex socket in it - that'd be interesting to have as a
> reference here.


http://www.etoolcart.com/browseprodu...lder---SIRHO60
..HTML

Also, from the popular UK Honda manual site:

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf

and how it's used, more or less (lower right corner of page):

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf

My 91 Civic crankshaft pulley has quite the lip on it where the power steering
belt goes. The lip is bowl-shaped, too, meaning bolting a flat bar (part of my
proposed crankshaft pulley holding tool) to the pulley puts stress on the lip,
if you can picture this.

I JB Welded the 0.3 oz. chunk of pulley that came off yesterday. My calculations
say it should hold easily, if JB Weld does not lie about the strength of its
stuff. OTOH, I'm quite confident of the high probability it will chip off again
(or another piece will chip off) when I bolt the tool I'm making (Eric's design,
more or less) to it and apply, yup, over 200 ft-lbs so far to the pulley bolt by
my rough calculations. I bear in mind I might need lots more.

I've been resisting the air impact wrench because clearly I'm going to need a
serious one, so it will be a rental to save bucks. Also, I confess after bending
one grade 8 bolt yesterday in this effort, and thinking about the force this is
going to take, I am starting to think Curly's (tongue-in-cheek?) caution about
handling such a heavy duty air impact wrench should be taken seriously. I don't
know. A guy can't be that much stronger than me. But we've been over this, ad
nauseam...

I will be investigating the details of interchangeability of crankshaft pulleys
with a couple of salvage yards I've found, starting tomorrow. I suspect the
pulley I have now is not going to survive my latest foray into car repairs. :-)
(No, I don't have money to throw away, but I do have pretty surely a leaking
crank seal, albeit a very slow leak. More worried about the timing belt getting
oily than anything else.) My pulley's overall diameter is about 5.5 inches; the
power steering belt wheel diameter is about 3.5 inches, for starters. Anyone
having a crankshaft pulley laying around with the 50 mm hex design, etc., do
post the dimensions so I can get some idea if this is at all feasible. (Or I
dunno, George, maybe you know off the top of your head?)


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