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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 19 May 2004, 02:37 am
dpduff
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Default clockwise/anticlockwise, very confused

Hi everyone,
I am trying to adjust the valve clearance on a 90 Accord. Hayne's manual
says to turn the crankshaft pulley clockwise to get at TDC on no. 1 cylinder
and adjust the valves. To adjust no.3,4 and 2 valves, turn the crankshaft
pulley anticlockwise. Is it a typo error to turn the shaft clockwise ? If it
is Hayne's error and I have already done that, what should I do? Will it
harm the belts ? Should I readjust the belt tension first ? Very confused.
Many thanks for replying
Don


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 19 May 2004, 10:54 am
Yet Another John
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Default Re: clockwise/anticlockwise, very confused

In article <Q8Eqc.21628$0e6.20854@clgrps13>,
"dpduff" <dpduff1@telusplanet.net> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> I am trying to adjust the valve clearance on a 90 Accord. Hayne's manual
> says to turn the crankshaft pulley clockwise to get at TDC on no. 1 cylinder
> and adjust the valves. To adjust no.3,4 and 2 valves, turn the crankshaft
> pulley anticlockwise. Is it a typo error to turn the shaft clockwise ? If it
> is Hayne's error and I have already done that, what should I do? Will it
> harm the belts ? Should I readjust the belt tension first ? Very confused.
> Many thanks for replying
> Don
>
>


I don't know about the Accord, but I've been adjusting valves on my
trusty VW for about 15 years now. Which way does the engine rotate when
running. If it runs counterclockwise AND the firing order is 3-4-2-1
(AKA 1-3-4-2, AKA 2-1-3-4, you get the idea, it's start anywhere) then
the manual is correct and you should find TDC on #1 (by distributor
rotor position I presume), then move back (CCW) to #3.

One way to find out what cylinder is at TDC is to just wiggle the
rockers, if you have rockers. Could be you're dealing with an overhead
cam here. In which case you can only do your investigating with a feeler
gage.

Anyway if you put a feeler gage in and find that both valves are REALLY
tight, then you probably have the wrong cylinder. Experimenting a bit
with this will quickly tell you if you're going in the right direction
and have the right firing order. Be warned, however, that sometimes the
piston that is 180-degrees out of phase with the TDC piston can look
like it's valves are closed (nice feeler gage gaps) but one valve can
feel just a tad tight. This probably isn't TDC.

As a general rule if you find tight valves on an old engine (10,000
miles on it or more) then you've got the wrong cylinder. Valves will
loosen with age except during the run-in period when they are seating.

Hope this helps,

John

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 19 May 2004, 11:45 am
Caroline
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: clockwise/anticlockwise, very confused

Short answer: The Hayne's manual directions are fine.

"dpduff" <dpduff1@telusplanet.net> wrote
> Hi everyone,
> I am trying to adjust the valve clearance on a 90 Accord. Hayne's manual
> says to turn the crankshaft pulley clockwise to get at TDC on no. 1 cylinder
> and adjust the valves.


Other manuals for circa early 1990s Hondas say just get the #1 cylinder at TDC
*without* specifying which direction one should rotate the crankshaft.

See for example these directions for a 1991-1993 Accord, especially step 2:

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/AccordManual/400/5-14.pdf

Also, for a circa 1990 Honda Concerto:

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-13.pdf

And for a circa 1990 Prelude:
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Prelude...2sf100/5-8.pdf

Also, the steps for removing the rocker arm on a 1990 Accord also have you
rotating the crankshaft so #1 cylinder is at TDC, but again no rotational
direction is specified. From the www.autozone.com site, see
http://tinyurl.com/2yjta

While driving, the crankshaft pulley rotates COUNTERclockwise while standing
next to the front left wheel and looking across the engine to the passenger
side. When one is doing this maintenance, will it hurt to rotate the engine in
the clockwise direction? I can't really imagine how. The pistons move up and
down regardless. I can't think of a part in the crankshaft system that would be
hurt by rotating clockwise.

I checked my car's valve clearances a few months ago for the first time. I think
you should just rotate the crankshaft manually in the direction that requires
the least amount of rotation to get #1 cylinder at TDC, per the description in
the manuals above.

> To adjust no.3,4 and 2 valves, turn the crankshaft
> pulley anticlockwise.


Correct. I think the only reason for this is simply that the correct firing
order is 1,3,4,2. Thus as the crankshaft rotates COUNTERclockwise 180 degrees,
the next valves that are correctly positioned for TDC are #3's. Another 180
degrees, and #2's valves are correctly positioned for checking the valve
clearance. Etc.

I trust you are aware that your car has a 4-stroke engine, so two revolutions of
the crankshaft occur to complete one cycle. During these two revolutions, each
cylinder fires exactly once.

> Is it a typo error to turn the shaft clockwise ?


Good question. Maybe there's some minor advantage to rotating first clockwise
and then counter clockwise, like lubrication will be more even while doing this
maintenance.

Perhaps one of the very experienced technicians who hang around here will
comment.

> If it
> is Hayne's error and I have already done that, what should I do?


Like I say above, I think you have done no damage to your car.

> Will it
> harm the belts ? Should I readjust the belt tension first ?


No and no.

> Very confused.
> Many thanks for replying



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 19 May 2004, 04:43 pm
dpduff
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: clockwise/anticlockwise, very confused

Hello, thank you for your prompt replies..
The reason why I am confused is normal rotation for that engine is
anticlockwise when facing the crankshaft pulley side, yet Haynes manual say
to turn it clockwise for No.1, but anticlockwise for the rest; another
confusing point is that they say you can use a remoter starter to turn the
crankshaft until it is close enough to turn it manually, now if you use the
remoter starter, then it has to be counterclockwise ?? The question is what
to do about the timing belt which have been turned clockwise ?
Don
"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:6bMqc.1439$Tn6.57@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> Short answer: The Hayne's manual directions are fine.
>
> "dpduff" <dpduff1@telusplanet.net> wrote
> > Hi everyone,
> > I am trying to adjust the valve clearance on a 90 Accord. Hayne's manual
> > says to turn the crankshaft pulley clockwise to get at TDC on no. 1

cylinder
> > and adjust the valves.

>
> Other manuals for circa early 1990s Hondas say just get the #1 cylinder at

TDC
> *without* specifying which direction one should rotate the crankshaft.
>
> See for example these directions for a 1991-1993 Accord, especially step

2:
>
> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/AccordManual/400/5-14.pdf
>
> Also, for a circa 1990 Honda Concerto:
>
> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-13.pdf
>
> And for a circa 1990 Prelude:
> http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Prelude...2sf100/5-8.pdf
>
> Also, the steps for removing the rocker arm on a 1990 Accord also have you
> rotating the crankshaft so #1 cylinder is at TDC, but again no rotational
> direction is specified. From the www.autozone.com site, see
> http://tinyurl.com/2yjta
>
> While driving, the crankshaft pulley rotates COUNTERclockwise while

standing
> next to the front left wheel and looking across the engine to the

passenger
> side. When one is doing this maintenance, will it hurt to rotate the

engine in
> the clockwise direction? I can't really imagine how. The pistons move up

and
> down regardless. I can't think of a part in the crankshaft system that

would be
> hurt by rotating clockwise.
>
> I checked my car's valve clearances a few months ago for the first time. I

think
> you should just rotate the crankshaft manually in the direction that

requires
> the least amount of rotation to get #1 cylinder at TDC, per the

description in
> the manuals above.
>
> > To adjust no.3,4 and 2 valves, turn the crankshaft
> > pulley anticlockwise.

>
> Correct. I think the only reason for this is simply that the correct

firing
> order is 1,3,4,2. Thus as the crankshaft rotates COUNTERclockwise 180

degrees,
> the next valves that are correctly positioned for TDC are #3's. Another

180
> degrees, and #2's valves are correctly positioned for checking the valve
> clearance. Etc.
>
> I trust you are aware that your car has a 4-stroke engine, so two

revolutions of
> the crankshaft occur to complete one cycle. During these two revolutions,

each
> cylinder fires exactly once.
>
> > Is it a typo error to turn the shaft clockwise ?

>
> Good question. Maybe there's some minor advantage to rotating first

clockwise
> and then counter clockwise, like lubrication will be more even while doing

this
> maintenance.
>
> Perhaps one of the very experienced technicians who hang around here will
> comment.
>
> > If it
> > is Hayne's error and I have already done that, what should I do?

>
> Like I say above, I think you have done no damage to your car.
>
> > Will it
> > harm the belts ? Should I readjust the belt tension first ?

>
> No and no.
>
> > Very confused.
> > Many thanks for replying

>
>



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 19 May 2004, 06:51 pm
Cartmanator
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: clockwise/anticlockwise, very confused

you use the remote starter to go clockwise just past, then manually back
counterclockwise.
"dpduff" <dpduff1@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:6yQqc.473$gx1.90@clgrps12...
> Hello, thank you for your prompt replies..
> The reason why I am confused is normal rotation for that engine is
> anticlockwise when facing the crankshaft pulley side, yet Haynes manual

say
> to turn it clockwise for No.1, but anticlockwise for the rest; another
> confusing point is that they say you can use a remoter starter to turn the
> crankshaft until it is close enough to turn it manually, now if you use

the
> remoter starter, then it has to be counterclockwise ?? The question is

what
> to do about the timing belt which have been turned clockwise ?
> Don
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:6bMqc.1439$Tn6.57@newsread1.news.pas.earthlin k.net...
> > Short answer: The Hayne's manual directions are fine.
> >
> > "dpduff" <dpduff1@telusplanet.net> wrote
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I am trying to adjust the valve clearance on a 90 Accord. Hayne's

manual
> > > says to turn the crankshaft pulley clockwise to get at TDC on no. 1

> cylinder
> > > and adjust the valves.

> >
> > Other manuals for circa early 1990s Hondas say just get the #1 cylinder

at
> TDC
> > *without* specifying which direction one should rotate the crankshaft.
> >
> > See for example these directions for a 1991-1993 Accord, especially step

> 2:
> >
> > http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/AccordManual/400/5-14.pdf
> >
> > Also, for a circa 1990 Honda Concerto:
> >
> > http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-13.pdf
> >
> > And for a circa 1990 Prelude:
> > http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Prelude...2sf100/5-8.pdf
> >
> > Also, the steps for removing the rocker arm on a 1990 Accord also have

you
> > rotating the crankshaft so #1 cylinder is at TDC, but again no

rotational
> > direction is specified. From the www.autozone.com site, see
> > http://tinyurl.com/2yjta
> >
> > While driving, the crankshaft pulley rotates COUNTERclockwise while

> standing
> > next to the front left wheel and looking across the engine to the

> passenger
> > side. When one is doing this maintenance, will it hurt to rotate the

> engine in
> > the clockwise direction? I can't really imagine how. The pistons move up

> and
> > down regardless. I can't think of a part in the crankshaft system that

> would be
> > hurt by rotating clockwise.
> >
> > I checked my car's valve clearances a few months ago for the first time.

I
> think
> > you should just rotate the crankshaft manually in the direction that

> requires
> > the least amount of rotation to get #1 cylinder at TDC, per the

> description in
> > the manuals above.
> >
> > > To adjust no.3,4 and 2 valves, turn the crankshaft
> > > pulley anticlockwise.

> >
> > Correct. I think the only reason for this is simply that the correct

> firing
> > order is 1,3,4,2. Thus as the crankshaft rotates COUNTERclockwise 180

> degrees,
> > the next valves that are correctly positioned for TDC are #3's. Another

> 180
> > degrees, and #2's valves are correctly positioned for checking the valve
> > clearance. Etc.
> >
> > I trust you are aware that your car has a 4-stroke engine, so two

> revolutions of
> > the crankshaft occur to complete one cycle. During these two

revolutions,
> each
> > cylinder fires exactly once.
> >
> > > Is it a typo error to turn the shaft clockwise ?

> >
> > Good question. Maybe there's some minor advantage to rotating first

> clockwise
> > and then counter clockwise, like lubrication will be more even while

doing
> this
> > maintenance.
> >
> > Perhaps one of the very experienced technicians who hang around here

will
> > comment.
> >
> > > If it
> > > is Hayne's error and I have already done that, what should I do?

> >
> > Like I say above, I think you have done no damage to your car.
> >
> > > Will it
> > > harm the belts ? Should I readjust the belt tension first ?

> >
> > No and no.
> >
> > > Very confused.
> > > Many thanks for replying

> >
> >

>
>



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 19 May 2004, 08:33 pm
Chip Stein
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: clockwise/anticlockwise, very confused

always turn it counter-clockwise. going clockwise will put the slack
on the wrong side, not harmfull but it does affect tdc at the cam.

got to tdc on #1 adjust them, then turn the crank 180 degrees
counter and go for 3, repaeat for 4 and 2.
Chip
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