Honda Car Forum

Being reasonably mechanically inclined and not to take anything away from
mechanics but it one has the proper tools, can this belt be replaced without
a phd in auto mechanics? 4 cyl. air etc.

thank you

Mango




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/2004

Not an easy task at all. My neighbor repairs cars and he charges $250 for
labour to do this. It's a 4 to 5 hour job and that's if you know what you
are doing! :-)

Deep

"Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com> wrote in message
news:2gnhf1F4qt3lU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Being reasonably mechanically inclined and not to take anything away from
> mechanics but it one has the proper tools, can this belt be replaced
without
> a phd in auto mechanics? 4 cyl. air etc.
>
> thank you
>
> Mango
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.676 / Virus Database: 438 - Release Date: 5/3/2004
>
>

I am prepping to change the timing belt by myself (for the first time) in a year
or so on my 1991 Civic LX (152k miles right now). In addition to the archive for
this group, several resources I have bookmarked for this job are:

http://timingbelt.soben.com/ (specifically designed to help a person decide
whether to do the job him/herself, for a circa 1994 Integra)

http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html

http://www.crxsi.com/resources/repai...belt/index.htm

These are generally for older Hondas. I'd skim these sites and then get at least
a Chilton's manual for your 1999 Accord from the library and see if huge
differences from the sites are indicated in the Chilton's. Then make a decision.

Reports here indicate that a Helm manual is the very best for work on one's car.
It's far more detailed than Chilton's or Haynes manuals. Around $65 at
www.helminc.com or http://tinyurl.com/2c2tg , or try Ebay.

Based on reading here, I'm pretty much sold on buying a "harmonic damper pulley
puller" to ease the difficulty of getting off the crankshaft bolt. (Others will
say they got away without buying the $50+ tool.) I don't know if this tool is
appropriate for your Accord, but you might want to check. See for example

http://store.autotoolexpress.com/honachardamp.html

http://tinyurl.com/2vbtt


"Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com> wrote
> Being reasonably mechanically inclined and not to take anything away from
> mechanics but it one has the proper tools, can this belt be replaced without
> a phd in auto mechanics? 4 cyl. air etc.

why do you want to remove the crank pulley? once the belt is
de-tensioned, it slides off the cam pulley easily, and then it comes off
the crank pulley no problems.

the /only/ thing that's a pita about the 91 is remembering to remove one
of the l/h mounting bolts from underneath, not try freeing up the welded
nut from on top. [speaks the voice of experience!]

other than that, a bit of patience and the right research, which you
seem to have done, you should be fine.

good luck.

Caroline wrote:
> I am prepping to change the timing belt by myself (for the first time) in a year
> or so on my 1991 Civic LX (152k miles right now). In addition to the archive for
> this group, several resources I have bookmarked for this job are:
>
> http://timingbelt.soben.com/ (specifically designed to help a person decide
> whether to do the job him/herself, for a circa 1994 Integra)
>
> http://www.cadvision.com/blanchas/54pontiac/honda.html
>
> http://www.crxsi.com/resources/repai...belt/index.htm
>
> These are generally for older Hondas. I'd skim these sites and then get at least
> a Chilton's manual for your 1999 Accord from the library and see if huge
> differences from the sites are indicated in the Chilton's. Then make a decision.
>
> Reports here indicate that a Helm manual is the very best for work on one's car.
> It's far more detailed than Chilton's or Haynes manuals. Around $65 at
> www.helminc.com or http://tinyurl.com/2c2tg , or try Ebay.
>
> Based on reading here, I'm pretty much sold on buying a "harmonic damper pulley
> puller" to ease the difficulty of getting off the crankshaft bolt. (Others will
> say they got away without buying the $50+ tool.) I don't know if this tool is
> appropriate for your Accord, but you might want to check. See for example
>
> http://store.autotoolexpress.com/honachardamp.html
>
> http://tinyurl.com/2vbtt
>
>
> "Mango" <Mango_masher@puny.com> wrote
>
>>Being reasonably mechanically inclined and not to take anything away from
>>mechanics but it one has the proper tools, can this belt be replaced without
>>a phd in auto mechanics? 4 cyl. air etc.
>
>
>

Jim,

Right now, I'm just going by (1) what the Chilton's manual says; and (2) what
others have said about the biggest hurdles to changing the timing belt.

The online instructions for timing belt replacement on a 1990-94 Honda Concertos
at http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-29.pdf are very similar
to those in my Chilton's manual. Note that on page 2, step 9, the directions say
to remove the crankshaft pulley.

So I have not put my hands on all this. I do follow what you mean: In theory all
it should take is for the tensioner to be loosened and the belt should slide
off. (And I see that it sounds like you've done as much.) So I don't know why
the manual says this. Yet many people have posted here in the past that the main
hurdle in this job often (like all the time?) is getting the crankshaft pulley
bolt loose. On my car at installation, the bolt is supposed to be torqued to 119
ft-lbs. Others here have noted that, after operation for a few years, it
tightens further (due to rust and heat cycling?). Speculation here has been that
the break-free torque of the bolt sometimes exceeds 500 ft-lbs, IIRC. I gather
this estimate is based on the air impact wrench rating people have used to get
the thing off.

So at this point I defer to others to explain why the crankshaft pulley bolt and
crankshaft pulley must come off when changing the timing belt.

I have put your other comments in my notes. Maybe I'll just throw a party I
change the timing belt and invite all the newsgroup regulars as well as any
newbies and lurkers over. :-)

"jim beam" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote
> why do you want to remove the crank pulley? once the belt is
> de-tensioned, it slides off the cam pulley easily, and then it comes off
> the crank pulley no problems.
>
> the /only/ thing that's a pita about the 91 is remembering to remove one
> of the l/h mounting bolts from underneath, not try freeing up the welded
> nut from on top. [speaks the voice of experience!]
>
> other than that, a bit of patience and the right research, which you
> seem to have done, you should be fine.
>
> good luck.

I can't speak to the '91 specifically, but on the '95 Integra and the '96
Odyssey, you have to take off the crank pulley to get the lower cover off in
order to get to the belt.


On 5/16/04 2:54 PM, in article
_FPpc.2495$H_3.775@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.ne t, "Caroline"
<caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Right now, I'm just going by (1) what the Chilton's manual says; and (2) what
> others have said about the biggest hurdles to changing the timing belt.
>
> The online instructions for timing belt replacement on a 1990-94 Honda
> Concertos
> at http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-29.pdf are very
> similar
> to those in my Chilton's manual. Note that on page 2, step 9, the directions
> say
> to remove the crankshaft pulley.
>
> So I have not put my hands on all this. I do follow what you mean: In theory
> all
> it should take is for the tensioner to be loosened and the belt should slide
> off. (And I see that it sounds like you've done as much.) So I don't know why
> the manual says this. Yet many people have posted here in the past that the
> main
> hurdle in this job often (like all the time?) is getting the crankshaft pulley
> bolt loose. On my car at installation, the bolt is supposed to be torqued to
> 119
> ft-lbs. Others here have noted that, after operation for a few years, it
> tightens further (due to rust and heat cycling?). Speculation here has been
> that
> the break-free torque of the bolt sometimes exceeds 500 ft-lbs, IIRC. I gather
> this estimate is based on the air impact wrench rating people have used to get
> the thing off.
>
> So at this point I defer to others to explain why the crankshaft pulley bolt
> and
> crankshaft pulley must come off when changing the timing belt.
>
> I have put your other comments in my notes. Maybe I'll just throw a party I
> change the timing belt and invite all the newsgroup regulars as well as any
> newbies and lurkers over. :-)
>
> "jim beam" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote
>> why do you want to remove the crank pulley? once the belt is
>> de-tensioned, it slides off the cam pulley easily, and then it comes off
>> the crank pulley no problems.
>>
>> the /only/ thing that's a pita about the 91 is remembering to remove one
>> of the l/h mounting bolts from underneath, not try freeing up the welded
>> nut from on top. [speaks the voice of experience!]
>>
>> other than that, a bit of patience and the right research, which you
>> seem to have done, you should be fine.
>>
>> good luck.
>
>

i lied! i swear i don't remember taking it off when i did my 89, but
checking back in the helm manual, it seems like it's necessary to allow
removal of the lower cover. senior moment obviously.

i guess i was thinking about it not being essential to remove the pulley
for timing. a lot of vehicles require removal of the pulley face so
that timing marks on the toothed cog can be seen & alligned with marks
on the belt, both for the cam & crank. this is particularly common with
dual camshafts. this is not the case with the 91.

wild goose chase. sorry.

Caroline wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Right now, I'm just going by (1) what the Chilton's manual says; and (2) what
> others have said about the biggest hurdles to changing the timing belt.
>
> The online instructions for timing belt replacement on a 1990-94 Honda Concertos
> at http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-29.pdf are very similar
> to those in my Chilton's manual. Note that on page 2, step 9, the directions say
> to remove the crankshaft pulley.
>
> So I have not put my hands on all this. I do follow what you mean: In theory all
> it should take is for the tensioner to be loosened and the belt should slide
> off. (And I see that it sounds like you've done as much.) So I don't know why
> the manual says this. Yet many people have posted here in the past that the main
> hurdle in this job often (like all the time?) is getting the crankshaft pulley
> bolt loose. On my car at installation, the bolt is supposed to be torqued to 119
> ft-lbs. Others here have noted that, after operation for a few years, it
> tightens further (due to rust and heat cycling?). Speculation here has been that
> the break-free torque of the bolt sometimes exceeds 500 ft-lbs, IIRC. I gather
> this estimate is based on the air impact wrench rating people have used to get
> the thing off.
>
> So at this point I defer to others to explain why the crankshaft pulley bolt and
> crankshaft pulley must come off when changing the timing belt.
>
> I have put your other comments in my notes. Maybe I'll just throw a party I
> change the timing belt and invite all the newsgroup regulars as well as any
> newbies and lurkers over. :-)
>
> "jim beam" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote
>
>>why do you want to remove the crank pulley? once the belt is
>>de-tensioned, it slides off the cam pulley easily, and then it comes off
>>the crank pulley no problems.
>>
>>the /only/ thing that's a pita about the 91 is remembering to remove one
>>of the l/h mounting bolts from underneath, not try freeing up the welded
>>nut from on top. [speaks the voice of experience!]
>>
>>other than that, a bit of patience and the right research, which you
>>seem to have done, you should be fine.
>>
>>good luck.
>
>
>

"jim beam" <uce@ftc.gov> wrote
> i lied! i swear i don't remember taking it off when i did my 89, but
> checking back in the helm manual, it seems like it's necessary to allow
> removal of the lower cover. senior moment obviously.

No problem.

With someone else's hint, I looked at the drawing in my Chilton's and now get
it. Like you say, that lower timing belt cover must come off to get access to
the whole timing belt, and the cover can't come off unless one removes the
crankshaft pulley, etc.

> i guess i was thinking about it not being essential to remove the pulley
> for timing. a lot of vehicles require removal of the pulley face so
> that timing marks on the toothed cog can be seen & alligned with marks
> on the belt, both for the cam & crank. this is particularly common with
> dual camshafts. this is not the case with the 91.

Now with this I do have direct experience. I agree the timing on my 91 Civic's
and many other (all?) Hondas is checked without removing the crankshaft pulley.

The discussion got me deeper into the steps I'll be taking to do this in a
couple of years. That's always helpful. :-)

> Based on reading here, I'm pretty much sold on buying a "harmonic damper
> pulley puller" to ease the difficulty of getting off the crankshaft bolt.
> (Others will say they got away without buying the $50+ tool.) I don't
> know if this tool is appropriate for your Accord, but you might want to
> check. See for example
>
> http://store.autotoolexpress.com/honachardamp.html

By the way, save your money. That pulley holding tool won't work for a '91
Civic. Only a '92 and above. Honda changed the design of the pulley. The
'88-'91 models don't have the 50 mm hex opening in the pulley needed in
order to use that tool.

Note though that a pulley holding tool can be easily fabricated. For one
suggestion, see the post at http://tinyurl.com/33r5n.

Eric

"Eric" <say.no@spam.now> wrote
> > Based on reading here, I'm pretty much sold on buying a "harmonic damper
> > pulley puller" to ease the difficulty of getting off the crankshaft bolt.
> > (Others will say they got away without buying the $50+ tool.) I don't
> > know if this tool is appropriate for your Accord, but you might want to
> > check. See for example
> >
> > http://store.autotoolexpress.com/honachardamp.html
>
> By the way, save your money. That pulley holding tool won't work for a '91
> Civic. Only a '92 and above. Honda changed the design of the pulley. The
> '88-'91 models don't have the 50 mm hex opening in the pulley needed in
> order to use that tool.

Okay, thanks.

> Note though that a pulley holding tool can be easily fabricated. For one
> suggestion, see the post at http://tinyurl.com/33r5n.

I read your post at this link but am not sure this is what I need. Or I am not
following your description very well.

From the Majestic parts site, The 1988 Civic LX manual trans. crankshaft pulley
and my 1991 Civic LX manual trans's crankshaft pulley are the same. See
http://tinyurl.com/23qjb and http://tinyurl.com/3dtb5 . Is this your crankshaft
pulley?

I did find a drawing of a crankshaft pulley bolt tool that might be "dead-on"
for my 1991 Civic. It's the one for the 1991 Honda Concerto SOHC. I think the
Concerto's 1.493 liter engine is identical to my Civic's 1.493 liter engine. For
the tool, see:

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-26.pdf

and

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Concert...sk301/5-27.pdf

Does the tool above look anything like the tool you fabricated?

Obviously I need to get another look at my car's crankshaft pulley bolt, figure
out how this tool is going to work exactly, and keep researching this, though I
think I'm making progress. The first time I inspected and turned this bolt was
when I checked my valve clearance's a few months ago.