Honda Car Forum

Joe <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in
news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com:

> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline autos
>> with electrics;many cannot afford it.
>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>> recharge.
>>
>
> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting the
> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be quickly
> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the batteries
> fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used ones on the
> chargers.

What if the station runs out of the charged packs?
It takes FAR longer to recharge them,they would have to maintain a huge
stock of packs,at great expense.Multiply that by the number of stations
needed for all the vehicles on the roads.

and "standardizing" the packs doesn't allow for the variations in
vehicles;some small and needing less capacity(and weight) and larger
vehicles needing bigger,heavier,higher capacity packs.
It would be like having an econobox with a 100 gallon fuel tank;the
weight(and size) negates any gain in efficiency.
You can see this is not practical.

And who knows in what condition your power source is then....how old it is
or if it's been abused or not.
Not to mention that the battery packs are large,heavy,and hazardous due to
the high energy stored in them.

Oh,and "easily replaced" is also "easily STOLEN".
>
> Of course, that's nothing like it is now...
>
>



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

"Joe" <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in message
news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline
>> autos with
>> electrics;many cannot afford it.
>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>> recharge.
>>
>
> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting the
> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be quickly
> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the
> batteries
> fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used ones on the
> chargers.

That would be a pretty heavy swap out. As far as standards, they
can't even standardize cell phone charger hookups....

>
> Of course, that's nothing like it is now...
>
>
> --
> Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
> joe at hits - buffalo dot com
> "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
> time..." - Danny, American History X

"Jim Yanik" <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C43587C99F48jyanikkuanet@74.209.136.83...
> Joe <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in
> news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com:
>
>> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline
>>> autos
>>> with electrics;many cannot afford it.
>>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>>> recharge.
>>>
>>
>> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting
>> the
>> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be
>> quickly
>> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the
>> batteries
>> fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used ones on
>> the
>> chargers.
>
> What if the station runs out of the charged packs?
> It takes FAR longer to recharge them,they would have to maintain a
> huge
> stock of packs,at great expense.Multiply that by the number of
> stations
> needed for all the vehicles on the roads.
>
> and "standardizing" the packs doesn't allow for the variations in
> vehicles;some small and needing less capacity(and weight) and larger
> vehicles needing bigger,heavier,higher capacity packs.
> It would be like having an econobox with a 100 gallon fuel tank;the
> weight(and size) negates any gain in efficiency.
> You can see this is not practical.
>
> And who knows in what condition your power source is then....how old
> it is
> or if it's been abused or not.
> Not to mention that the battery packs are large,heavy,and hazardous
> due to
> the high energy stored in them.
>
> Oh,and "easily replaced" is also "easily STOLEN".
>>

Hmm, a whole new black market opportunity. Capitalism at it's
best....

>> Of course, that's nothing like it is now...
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Yanik
> jyanik
> at
> kua.net

On 2009-07-09, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Joe <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in
> news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com:
>
>> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline autos
>>> with electrics;many cannot afford it.
>>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>>> recharge.
>>>
>>
>> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting the
>> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be quickly
>> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the batteries
>> fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used ones on the
>> chargers.
>
> What if the station runs out of the charged packs?
> It takes FAR longer to recharge them,they would have to maintain a huge
> stock of packs,at great expense.Multiply that by the number of stations
> needed for all the vehicles on the roads.

What if a station runs out of gas? You move on to the next station.
The stations that want to do better will start stocking more.

>
> and "standardizing" the packs doesn't allow for the variations in
> vehicles;some small and needing less capacity(and weight) and larger
> vehicles needing bigger,heavier,higher capacity packs.
> It would be like having an econobox with a 100 gallon fuel tank;the
> weight(and size) negates any gain in efficiency.
> You can see this is not practical.

I can see that you are opposed to thinking outside of the current box.
Rather than providing possible improvements in any suggestions, all
you generally do is try to poke holes. But that's OK, there's always
one...

>
> And who knows in what condition your power source is then....how old it is
> or if it's been abused or not.

Standard maintenance. Fuel systems require it, too.

> Not to mention that the battery packs are large,heavy,and hazardous due to
> the high energy stored in them.

And getting smaller every day. Hell, I can run my laptop now for
twice as long as my old one, and the battery is half the size.

>
> Oh,and "easily replaced" is also "easily STOLEN".

Some people like to use locks. Gas ain't so hard to steal, either...



--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

On 2009-07-09, Isaiah <isaiah@isaiah.org> wrote:
>
> "Joe" <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in message
> news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>>
>>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline
>>> autos with
>>> electrics;many cannot afford it.
>>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>>> recharge.
>>>
>>
>> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting the
>> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be quickly
>> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the
>> batteries
>> fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used ones on the
>> chargers.
>
> That would be a pretty heavy swap out. As far as standards, they
> can't even standardize cell phone charger hookups....

Sure they can. They have chosen not to in the past, but more and more
are now using a USB port. Cars have had standard fuel fillers for a
very long time. This is just a different fuel.

As for heavy, right now it is, but battery technologies are moving
pretty quickly these days. What is not doable today is not
necessarily impossible...

--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

Joe <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in
news:000efce2$0$14373$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com:

> On 2009-07-09, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>> Joe <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in
>> news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com:
>>
>>> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline
>>>> autos with electrics;many cannot afford it.
>>>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>>>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>>>> recharge.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting the
>>> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be quickly
>>> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the
>>> batteries fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used
>>> ones on the chargers.
>>
>> What if the station runs out of the charged packs?
>> It takes FAR longer to recharge them,they would have to maintain a
>> huge stock of packs,at great expense.Multiply that by the number of
>> stations needed for all the vehicles on the roads.
>
> What if a station runs out of gas? You move on to the next station.
> The stations that want to do better will start stocking more.

the costs to stock numerous battery packs(of more than one type,too) would
be prohibitive.they are not inexpensive.
>
>>
>> and "standardizing" the packs doesn't allow for the variations in
>> vehicles;some small and needing less capacity(and weight) and larger
>> vehicles needing bigger,heavier,higher capacity packs.
>> It would be like having an econobox with a 100 gallon fuel tank;the
>> weight(and size) negates any gain in efficiency.
>> You can see this is not practical.
>
> I can see that you are opposed to thinking outside of the current box.

Oh,don't give me that chicle crap.
I'm pointing out PRACTICAL considerations.

> Rather than providing possible improvements in any suggestions, all
> you generally do is try to poke holes. But that's OK, there's always
> one...

Then there's the Utopian dreamers who fail to consider REALITY....
>
>>
>> And who knows in what condition your power source is then....how old
>> it is or if it's been abused or not.
>
> Standard maintenance. Fuel systems require it, too.
Nothing like a battery pack that's been drawn down too far,or sat too
long(self-discharge),or been overheated,or has some weak cells.
>
>> Not to mention that the battery packs are large,heavy,and hazardous
>> due to the high energy stored in them.
>
> And getting smaller every day. Hell, I can run my laptop now for
> twice as long as my old one, and the battery is half the size.

A lot different than a motor vehicle battery.
But PC owners have had batteries short,overheat,faulty construction,etc.
>
>>
>> Oh,and "easily replaced" is also "easily STOLEN".
>
> Some people like to use locks. Gas ain't so hard to steal, either...

But the value stolen is far less,and far easier to replace.



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Joe <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in
> news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com:
>
>> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline autos
>>> with electrics;many cannot afford it.
>>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>>> recharge.
>>>
>> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting the
>> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be quickly
>> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the batteries
>> fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used ones on the
>> chargers.
>
> What if the station runs out of the charged packs?
> It takes FAR longer to recharge them,they would have to maintain a huge
> stock of packs,at great expense.Multiply that by the number of stations
> needed for all the vehicles on the roads.


I'm not a fan of this swapping out batteries idea, but you are doing
a poor job of criticizing it. If they run out of charged packs, they
will have more in a couple of hours. And you don't need a spare pack for
every vehicle on the road, only for those vehicles that are traveling
long distances, or are owned by people who can't be bothered to recharge
them.



>
> and "standardizing" the packs doesn't allow for the variations in
> vehicles;some small and needing less capacity(and weight) and larger
> vehicles needing bigger,heavier,higher capacity packs.
> It would be like having an econobox with a 100 gallon fuel tank;the
> weight(and size) negates any gain in efficiency.
> You can see this is not practical.

Oh ye of little imagination! Just as gasoline is sold in gallons,
battery banks can use standardized battery modules: say four for an
econobox, and 8-10 for a van.



>
> And who knows in what condition your power source is then....how old it is
> or if it's been abused or not.
> Not to mention that the battery packs are large,heavy,and hazardous due to
> the high energy stored in them.

Unless the cars are built in America, they will probably have
intelligent power management, and will stop running before the batteries
are damaged. If made in the US they will probably lots of cupholders,
instead. As for being dangerous, have you heard about that bizarre
"gasoline" stuff that's fueling so many vehicles now? Yikes!


>
> Oh,and "easily replaced" is also "easily STOLEN".
>> Of course, that's nothing like it is now...


Yes, all the thieves would need would be mobile service station bays.

"Joe" <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in message
news:000eff2e$0$14373$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
> On 2009-07-09, Isaiah <isaiah@isaiah.org> wrote:
>>
>> "Joe" <joe@spam.hits-spam-buffalo.com> wrote in message
>> news:0072be8c$0$27325$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com...
>>> On 2009-07-08, Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> People are not going to quickly replace their present gasoline
>>>> autos with
>>>> electrics;many cannot afford it.
>>>> Also,electrics will not do everything gas-powered cars can.
>>>> Businesses will not be able to use them,they take too long to
>>>> recharge.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'd imagine that this could be rather easily overcome by getting the
>>> car companies to standardize the batteries, and have them be quickly
>>> and easily replaced. Then, filling stations could stock the
>>> batteries
>>> fully charged, and swap them on-the-go, putting the used ones on the
>>> chargers.
>>
>> That would be a pretty heavy swap out. As far as standards, they
>> can't even standardize cell phone charger hookups....
>
> Sure they can. They have chosen not to in the past, but more and more
> are now using a USB port.

How long have cell phones been around, and still it is only at the point
where "more and more" are using a standard, and not all?

> Cars have had standard fuel fillers for a
> very long time. This is just a different fuel.
>

Not just a different fuel, a new technology, with no set standards except
for the 120v cord to recharge it...

> As for heavy, right now it is, but battery technologies are moving
> pretty quickly these days. What is not doable today is not
> necessarily impossible...

I agree, we don't know what the future will bring. Anything is possible,
but it will take time and many iterations before any standards will be in
place.

>
> --
> Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
> joe at hits - buffalo dot com
> "Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
> time..." - Danny, American History X