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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jul 2009, 10:23 pm
mavigozler
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Default What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda engine suggest?


I have some photos of a 2000 Honda Civic engine with 140,000 kilometers
(87,500 miles). 98% of them local, urban miles. Fuel has always been a
95 octane. Engine oil has always been synthetic (in this part of the
planet) but changed every 10,000 km (6000-7000 miles) anyway because all
the driving is local and in high stress traffic.

Photos: http://drop.io/OilyHondaEngine
[note that image size is 2048x1536 pixels, and the website preview is
too small to see detail; click download to see orig rez]

I noticed too much oil around the engine surface recently, a burning smell
coming from the front. Don't notice any smoky exhaust at all, although
the noise from the exhaust isn't as quiet as it used to be (although not
at all excessively noisy).

Photos (some taken with flash, others no flash) show heavy oil buildup
(with lots of dirt) in bottom/crankcase part. The borderline of oil on
the valve at the top seems to show even (horizontal) line a few
centimeters above the main engine block. No real noticeable loss of
engine power (compression?) problems.

Putting it all together, potential problems suggest:

* worn-and-torn gasket or seal between valve cover and main engine block:
I consider this most likely problem, since the horizontal line of oil
suggests this, and the leak of oil would eventually cover the whole engine
block

* worn piston rings: wholly unlikely, since wouldn't that cause a heavy
smoky exhaust, and why would oil leak out of engine

* some other seal or gasket problem? in addition to the problem I
indicate above? I will probably only be able to learn this after having
one part replaced and then somehow cleaning the entire engine block free
of dirt and oil...how to do this easily?

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jul 2009, 10:34 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda enginesuggest?

mavigozler wrote:
> I have some photos of a 2000 Honda Civic engine with 140,000 kilometers
> (87,500 miles). 98% of them local, urban miles. Fuel has always been a
> 95 octane. Engine oil has always been synthetic (in this part of the
> planet) but changed every 10,000 km (6000-7000 miles) anyway because all
> the driving is local and in high stress traffic.
>
> Photos: http://drop.io/OilyHondaEngine
> [note that image size is 2048x1536 pixels, and the website preview is
> too small to see detail; click download to see orig rez]
>
> I noticed too much oil around the engine surface recently, a burning smell
> coming from the front. Don't notice any smoky exhaust at all, although
> the noise from the exhaust isn't as quiet as it used to be (although not
> at all excessively noisy).
>
> Photos (some taken with flash, others no flash) show heavy oil buildup
> (with lots of dirt) in bottom/crankcase part. The borderline of oil on
> the valve at the top seems to show even (horizontal) line a few
> centimeters above the main engine block. No real noticeable loss of
> engine power (compression?) problems.
>
> Putting it all together, potential problems suggest:
>
> * worn-and-torn gasket or seal between valve cover and main engine block:
> I consider this most likely problem, since the horizontal line of oil
> suggests this, and the leak of oil would eventually cover the whole engine
> block
>
> * worn piston rings: wholly unlikely, since wouldn't that cause a heavy
> smoky exhaust, and why would oil leak out of engine


??? bizarre!


>
> * some other seal or gasket problem? in addition to the problem I
> indicate above? I will probably only be able to learn this after having
> one part replaced and then somehow cleaning the entire engine block free
> of dirt and oil...how to do this easily?
>


dude, what you have is called a "perfectly normal engine". just drive
the freakin' thing with the hood closed and you'll be fine.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01 Jul 2009, 11:49 pm
Greg Campbell
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda enginesuggest?

From what the picture show, this looks entirely normal for an older
car. I suspect someone checked the valves (does the 2000 use hydraulic
lash adjustment?) and did a sloppy job with the gasket. Also possible
is a slow leak from the distributor seal. If it bugs you, buy and
install a new gasket, then give the block a shot of engine cleaner.

Unless you have more to go on, I'm thinking the exhaust noise has
nothing to do with this.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02 Jul 2009, 07:13 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda engine suggest?

mavigozler <mavigozler@turkiye.gov> wrote in
news:Xns9C3C410E526FAmavi@207.115.33.102:

>
> I have some photos of a 2000 Honda Civic engine with 140,000
> kilometers (87,500 miles). 98% of them local, urban miles. Fuel has
> always been a 95 octane. Engine oil has always been synthetic (in
> this part of the planet) but changed every 10,000 km (6000-7000 miles)
> anyway because all the driving is local and in high stress traffic.
>
> Photos: http://drop.io/OilyHondaEngine
> [note that image size is 2048x1536 pixels, and the website preview
> is
> too small to see detail; click download to see orig rez]




The valve cover gasket is leaking. It could be old, aftermarket, or the
nuts may be improperly tightened.

This is a simple fix: Just replace it with a new one from the dealer.



>
> * some other seal or gasket problem? in addition to the problem I
> indicate above? I will probably only be able to learn this after
> having one part replaced and then somehow cleaning the entire engine
> block free of dirt and oil...how to do this easily?




Once the leak is stopped, wipe off as much as you can with a rag. The rest
will wear off with the weather.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02 Jul 2009, 08:09 am
C. E. White
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda engine suggest?

Compared to my Sister's old Civic, your engine is clean. Looks like a
weeping valve cover gaskets to me. From what I have seen, this is
standard operation proceedure for older Hondas. Are you actually
losing enough oil between changes to require oil to be added? If the
oily engine bothers you, have someone repalce the valve cover gasket.
This is not a difficult operation. On the other hand, if you are not
losing much oil, and the minor oil film doesn't bother you, close the
hood and drive. My sister wouldn't spend a dime to fix her leaks and
the engine was running fine at 147,000 miles. The rest of the car was
a POS, but the engine ran fine...

Ed
"mavigozler" <mavigozler@turkiye.gov> wrote in message
news:Xns9C3C410E526FAmavi@207.115.33.102...
>
> I have some photos of a 2000 Honda Civic engine with 140,000
> kilometers
> (87,500 miles). 98% of them local, urban miles. Fuel has always
> been a
> 95 octane. Engine oil has always been synthetic (in this part of
> the
> planet) but changed every 10,000 km (6000-7000 miles) anyway because
> all
> the driving is local and in high stress traffic.
>
> Photos: http://drop.io/OilyHondaEngine
> [note that image size is 2048x1536 pixels, and the website preview
> is
> too small to see detail; click download to see orig rez]
>
> I noticed too much oil around the engine surface recently, a burning
> smell
> coming from the front. Don't notice any smoky exhaust at all,
> although
> the noise from the exhaust isn't as quiet as it used to be (although
> not
> at all excessively noisy).
>
> Photos (some taken with flash, others no flash) show heavy oil
> buildup
> (with lots of dirt) in bottom/crankcase part. The borderline of oil
> on
> the valve at the top seems to show even (horizontal) line a few
> centimeters above the main engine block. No real noticeable loss of
> engine power (compression?) problems.
>
> Putting it all together, potential problems suggest:
>
> * worn-and-torn gasket or seal between valve cover and main engine
> block:
> I consider this most likely problem, since the horizontal line of
> oil
> suggests this, and the leak of oil would eventually cover the whole
> engine
> block
>
> * worn piston rings: wholly unlikely, since wouldn't that cause a
> heavy
> smoky exhaust, and why would oil leak out of engine
>
> * some other seal or gasket problem? in addition to the problem I
> indicate above? I will probably only be able to learn this after
> having
> one part replaced and then somehow cleaning the entire engine block
> free
> of dirt and oil...how to do this easily?
>



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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 02 Jul 2009, 06:00 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda engine suggest?

"C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in news:h2ic1f$ib7$1
@news.eternal-september.org:

> Compared to my Sister's old Civic, your engine is clean. Looks like a
> weeping valve cover gaskets to me. From what I have seen, this is
> standard operation proceedure for older Hondas.



There's absolutely no inherent reason why that should be so. Honda valve
covers (including the OP's) are traditionally cast-aluminum. They fracture
rather than bend, so the mating surfaces tend to remain intact and true
unless obviously damaged.

My money is on an original (or aftermarket) valve cover gasket that is not
sealing properly. Has the OP even checked the nuts to see if they're tight?

I've never personally seen a leak of this type which was NOT solved simply
with proper installation of a new OEM valve cover gasket. The gasket is
about $20. Installation is trivially easy, maybe a half-hour's labor, at
most.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 02 Jul 2009, 06:08 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda engine suggest?

Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in
news:Xns9C3CC11DD1500tegger@208.90.168.18:

> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in news:h2ic1f$ib7$1
> @news.eternal-september.org:
>
>> Compared to my Sister's old Civic, your engine is clean. Looks like a
>> weeping valve cover gaskets to me. From what I have seen, this is
>> standard operation proceedure for older Hondas.

>
>
> There's absolutely no inherent reason why that should be so. Honda
> valve covers (including the OP's) are traditionally cast-aluminum.
> They fracture rather than bend, so the mating surfaces tend to remain
> intact and true unless obviously damaged.
>
> My money is on an original (or aftermarket) valve cover gasket that is
> not sealing properly. Has the OP even checked the nuts to see if
> they're tight?





I just had a better look at the OP's images 04.jpg and 05.jpg.


OP's original text:
>> Photos: http://drop.io/OilyHondaEngine
>> [note that image size is 2048x1536 pixels, and the website preview
>> is too small to see detail; click download to see orig rez]



See the seepage from the hold-down bolt gasket at right? This is NOT
normal.

I suspect bad installation, aftermarket gasket, or simple neglect.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03 Jul 2009, 11:00 am
mavigozler
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda engine suggest?

Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in rec.autos.makers.honda:

> Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in
> news:Xns9C3CC11DD1500tegger@208.90.168.18:
>
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in news:h2ic1f$ib7$1
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> Compared to my Sister's old Civic, your engine is clean. Looks like a
>>> weeping valve cover gaskets to me. From what I have seen, this is
>>> standard operation proceedure for older Hondas.

>>
>>
>> There's absolutely no inherent reason why that should be so. Honda
>> valve covers (including the OP's) are traditionally cast-aluminum.
>> They fracture rather than bend, so the mating surfaces tend to remain
>> intact and true unless obviously damaged.
>>
>> My money is on an original (or aftermarket) valve cover gasket that is
>> not sealing properly. Has the OP even checked the nuts to see if
>> they're tight?

>
>
>
>
> I just had a better look at the OP's images 04.jpg and 05.jpg.
>
>
> OP's original text:
>>> Photos: http://drop.io/OilyHondaEngine
>>> [note that image size is 2048x1536 pixels, and the website preview
>>> is too small to see detail; click download to see orig rez]

>
>
> See the seepage from the hold-down bolt gasket at right? This is NOT
> normal.
>
> I suspect bad installation, aftermarket gasket, or simple neglect.


All of your comments have been helpful.

I will try to find all my tools---I had been out-of-country for a couple
of years and the socket wrench set and other tools I have, have become
scattered and "stored away." I have more or less lived here for 15 years
and this car has been taken care of by the dealer service personnel, whose
work I have checked and have been generally pleased.

The car had a "major service" I guess while I was away, I believe, and I
have not been given the details of what the major service was. I
suspected normal wear-and-tear and not careless maintenance work here for
several reasons: my wife is a university officer and she gets chauffered
vehicles, and sometimes the chauffers/drivers have driven the Honda, and
they tend not to care so much about the autos of others...so I assumed
that they were doing things like gunning the engine and creating
unnecessary havoc as they usually do with government-owned vehicles. So
my thinking was coming from that perspective.

Anyway, I will check all this out. Thanks.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08 Jul 2009, 03:55 pm
MinkelR
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda enginesuggest?

I'll vote for a bad valve cover gasket. It looks like it's leaky in
the pictures. A slow oil drip or leak from the valve cover would also
explain the smell which is probably oil dripping onto your exhaust
manifold.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 09 Jul 2009, 11:40 pm
Gordon McGrew
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: What does oil- and dirt-covered surface of 2000 Honda engine suggest?

On Thu, 2 Jul 2009 23:08:47 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv>
wrote:

>Tegger <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in
>news:Xns9C3CC11DD1500tegger@208.90.168.18:
>
>> "C. E. White" <cewhite3@mindspring.com> wrote in news:h2ic1f$ib7$1
>> @news.eternal-september.org:
>>
>>> Compared to my Sister's old Civic, your engine is clean. Looks like a
>>> weeping valve cover gaskets to me. From what I have seen, this is
>>> standard operation proceedure for older Hondas.

>>
>>
>> There's absolutely no inherent reason why that should be so. Honda
>> valve covers (including the OP's) are traditionally cast-aluminum.
>> They fracture rather than bend, so the mating surfaces tend to remain
>> intact and true unless obviously damaged.
>>
>> My money is on an original (or aftermarket) valve cover gasket that is
>> not sealing properly. Has the OP even checked the nuts to see if
>> they're tight?

>
>
>
>
>I just had a better look at the OP's images 04.jpg and 05.jpg.
>
>
>OP's original text:
>>> Photos: http://drop.io/OilyHondaEngine
>>> [note that image size is 2048x1536 pixels, and the website preview
>>> is too small to see detail; click download to see orig rez]

>
>
>See the seepage from the hold-down bolt gasket at right? This is NOT
>normal.
>
>I suspect bad installation, aftermarket gasket, or simple neglect.


What about the PCV valve?
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