Honda Car Forum

BT wrote:
> Thanks all for the input. The dealer found no evidence of engine
> damage. So it looks like I may have gotten lucky. But still an
> expensive repair. I found an independent mechanic who will do it for
> 900, and that's most likely what I'll do. Still better value than
> buying a new car.
>
> Will keep you guys updated.
> Cheers,
> BT



Two items that were not covered in this discussion...

1. Is this the original radiator, if not - How many miles since the
replacement?

2. You checked the coolant level in the overflow tank but did you check
the radiator itself?

JT

On Jul 2, 7:29*pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com>
wrote:
> BT wrote:
> > Thanks all for the input. The dealer found no evidence of engine
> > damage. So it looks like I may have gotten lucky. But still an
> > expensive repair. I found an independent mechanic who will do it for
> > 900, and that's most likely what I'll do. Still better value than
> > buying a new car.
>
> > Will keep you guys updated.
> > Cheers,
> > BT
>
> Two items that were not covered in this discussion...
>
> 1. Is this the original radiator, if not - How many miles since the
> replacement?
>
> 2. You checked the coolant level in the overflow tank but did you check
> the radiator itself?
>
> JT

Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
thermostat went bad.

I did not check the coolant level in the radiator. But because of the
sweet smell the day before, I am pretty sure the gasket was gone
before I noticed the overheating.

Does that change anything?
Thanks
BT

BT wrote:
> On Jul 2, 7:29�pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com>
> wrote:
>> BT wrote:
>>> Thanks all for the input. The dealer found no evidence of engine
>>> damage. So it looks like I may have gotten lucky. But still an
>>> expensive repair. I found an independent mechanic who will do it for
>>> 900, and that's most likely what I'll do. Still better value than
>>> buying a new car.
>>> Will keep you guys updated.
>>> Cheers,
>>> BT
>> Two items that were not covered in this discussion...
>>
>> 1. Is this the original radiator, if not - How many miles since the
>> replacement?
>>
>> 2. You checked the coolant level in the overflow tank but did you check
>> the radiator itself?
>>
>> JT
>
> Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
> dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
> thermostat went bad.

if the thermostat goes bad, the gauge will show. if the coolant level
drops, the gauge frequently won't. as grumpy says, with the engine
cold, you need to regularly check coolant level in the radiator, /not/
the expansion reservoir - any leaking means the bottle stays the same,
but the coolant in the radiator disappears.


>
> I did not check the coolant level in the radiator. But because of the
> sweet smell the day before, I am pretty sure the gasket was gone
> before I noticed the overheating.
>
> Does that change anything?
> Thanks
> BT

On Jul 3, 6:14*am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> BT wrote:
> >
> > Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
> > dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
> > thermostat went bad.
>
> if the thermostat goes bad, the gauge will show. *if the coolant level
> drops, the gauge frequently won't. *as grumpy says, with the engine
> cold, you need to regularly check coolant level in the radiator, /not/
> the expansion reservoir - any leaking means the bottle stays the same,
> but the coolant in the radiator disappears.

Good call. The last time I checked the radiator itself was about 4
weeks ago when I did an oil change. It was fine at that time. And the
dealer said the coolant level was fine when they checked it. They also
couldn't find anything wrong with the thermostat, but suspect it was
stuck at some time, which may have caused the damage. This would be
the original thermostat. How long are they expected to last?

I dunno. It seems like the head gasket just gave up the ghost because
of age or something. Do they have an expected life-span?

BT

BT wrote:
> On Jul 3, 6:14�am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> BT wrote:
>>> Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
>>> dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
>>> thermostat went bad.
>> if the thermostat goes bad, the gauge will show. �if the coolant level
>> drops, the gauge frequently won't. �as grumpy says, with the engine
>> cold, you need to regularly check coolant level in the radiator, /not/
>> the expansion reservoir - any leaking means the bottle stays the same,
>> but the coolant in the radiator disappears.
>
> Good call. The last time I checked the radiator itself was about 4
> weeks ago when I did an oil change. It was fine at that time. And the
> dealer said the coolant level was fine when they checked it. They also
> couldn't find anything wrong with the thermostat, but suspect it was
> stuck at some time, which may have caused the damage. This would be
> the original thermostat. How long are they expected to last?
>
> I dunno. It seems like the head gasket just gave up the ghost because
> of age or something. Do they have an expected life-span?
>
> BT

not usually. occasionally one is just defective, occasionally there is
a head/block machining defect, but most of the time, it's thermostat
which in turn is much less common than coolant loss.

BT <bhthyagarajan@gmail.com> wrote in news:590dc13f-0fde-4e2d-851b-
52ba2b446f33@g7g2000prg.googlegroups.com:

> On Jul 3, 6:14*am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>> BT wrote:
>> >
>> > Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
>> > dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
>> > thermostat went bad.
>>
>> if the thermostat goes bad, the gauge will show. *if the coolant level
>> drops, the gauge frequently won't. *as grumpy says, with the engine
>> cold, you need to regularly check coolant level in the radiator, /not/
>> the expansion reservoir - any leaking means the bottle stays the same,
>> but the coolant in the radiator disappears.
>
> Good call. The last time I checked the radiator itself was about 4
> weeks ago when I did an oil change. It was fine at that time. And the
> dealer said the coolant level was fine when they checked it. They also
> couldn't find anything wrong with the thermostat, but suspect it was
> stuck at some time, which may have caused the damage. This would be
> the original thermostat. How long are they expected to last?
>
> I dunno. It seems like the head gasket just gave up the ghost because
> of age or something. Do they have an expected life-span?
>



Sort of. At /minimum/ you're expecting over 200,000 miles from a head
gasket.

It's normally the "fire rings" that fail on an all-aluminum engine. Those
are the parts of the head gasket which keeps combustion gases inside the
cylinders. The fire rings can only take so much pounding over the years
before they eventually develop weak spots that turn into gas-leakage
points.
Overheating (or near-overheating) accelerates failure of the fire rings
through warpage of the head, as does corrosion due to neglected coolant
changes.

There are three things you can do to prolong the life of your head gasket:
1) NEVER allow the temperature gauge needle to rise much above "normal";
2) change your coolant every two years, even if it's the "long life" kind;
3) make sure your ignition timing is always kept spot-on (on cars with
distributors).


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

BT wrote:

> On Jul 2, 7:29 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com>
> wrote:
>

>>Two items that were not covered in this discussion...
>>
>>1. Is this the original radiator, if not - How many miles since the
>>replacement?
>>
>>2. You checked the coolant level in the overflow tank but did you check
>>the radiator itself?
>>
>>JT
>
>
> Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
> dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
> thermostat went bad.
>
> I did not check the coolant level in the radiator. But because of the
> sweet smell the day before, I am pretty sure the gasket was gone
> before I noticed the overheating.
>
> Does that change anything?


In my experience, any radiator after 150K is usually plugged or well on
its way.

JT

Tegger wrote:

> BT <bhthyagarajan@gmail.com> wrote in news:590dc13f-0fde-4e2d-851b-
> 52ba2b446f33@g7g2000prg.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>>On Jul 3, 6:14 am, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>>BT wrote:
>>>
>>>>Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
>>>>dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
>>>>thermostat went bad.
>>>
>>>if the thermostat goes bad, the gauge will show. if the coolant level
>>>drops, the gauge frequently won't. as grumpy says, with the engine
>>>cold, you need to regularly check coolant level in the radiator, /not/
>>>the expansion reservoir - any leaking means the bottle stays the same,
>>>but the coolant in the radiator disappears.
>>
>>Good call. The last time I checked the radiator itself was about 4
>>weeks ago when I did an oil change. It was fine at that time. And the
>>dealer said the coolant level was fine when they checked it. They also
>>couldn't find anything wrong with the thermostat, but suspect it was
>>stuck at some time, which may have caused the damage. This would be
>>the original thermostat. How long are they expected to last?
>>
>>I dunno. It seems like the head gasket just gave up the ghost because
>>of age or something. Do they have an expected life-span?
>>
>
>
>
>
> Sort of. At /minimum/ you're expecting over 200,000 miles from a head
> gasket.
>
> It's normally the "fire rings" that fail on an all-aluminum engine. Those
> are the parts of the head gasket which keeps combustion gases inside the
> cylinders. The fire rings can only take so much pounding over the years
> before they eventually develop weak spots that turn into gas-leakage
> points.
> Overheating (or near-overheating) accelerates failure of the fire rings
> through warpage of the head, as does corrosion due to neglected coolant
> changes.
>
> There are three things you can do to prolong the life of your head gasket:
> 1) NEVER allow the temperature gauge needle to rise much above "normal";
> 2) change your coolant every two years, even if it's the "long life" kind;
> 3) make sure your ignition timing is always kept spot-on (on cars with
> distributors).


And have the radiator serviced/cleaned (rodding) every ten years or 150K
miles. A partially plugged radiator will raise havoc with any cooling
system. As JB stated, thermostats should be replaced maybe every five
years and lastly, a faulty water pump should be considered. Sometimes
impellers can start to slip.

JT

Grumpy AuContraire wrote:
>
>
> BT wrote:
>
>> On Jul 2, 7:29 pm, Grumpy AuContraire <Gru...@ExtraGrumpyville.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>
>>> Two items that were not covered in this discussion...
>>>
>>> 1. Is this the original radiator, if not - How many miles since the
>>> replacement?
>>>
>>> 2. You checked the coolant level in the overflow tank but did you check
>>> the radiator itself?
>>>
>>> JT
>>
>>
>> Original radiator. And still in good condition according to the
>> dealer. All hoses are fine too. Their hypothesis is that the
>> thermostat went bad.
>>
>> I did not check the coolant level in the radiator. But because of the
>> sweet smell the day before, I am pretty sure the gasket was gone
>> before I noticed the overheating.
>>
>> Does that change anything?
>
>
> In my experience, any radiator after 150K is usually plugged or well on
> its way.
>
> JT
>

with a plastic tank, it is prudent to simply replace it being as they
tend to crack round about then anyway. no cleaning, no bugs in the
matrix, guaranteed functionality.

On Jul 1, 11:30*pm, jim beam <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

> yes. *i'd do jdm or domestic [low mileage] used, NOT rebuilt. *rebuilt
> is only ok is you don't care or if you know a /REALLY/ fastidiously anal
> builder, but they're rarer than rocking horse shit. *typical rebuilds
> rarely last anywhere near as long as the original engine. *lots of
> technical reasons that i cant' be bothered to list right now.

the proverbial urban legend that putting a rebuilt head on an old
engine will make the bottom end go, because the increase of pressure
back to spec is too much for it. my theory, based on seeing a couple
of rebuilt heads, is that they come with so much scrap metal and
shrapnel in the cooling and oiling passages that it clogs the oil
passages in the crank. (one of these did indeed end up with a thrown
rod shortly afterwards)

when i needed a rebuilt head, i eventually went with one rebuilt from
PAECO in birmingham alabama, btw, which was clean enough to eat off
of. they're not at all cheap, though; their main market is SCCA
racers. looking at their website now, i don't see head rebuilding, but
for anyone who wants to go that route, i'd advise at least asking them.