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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07 May 2004, 06:33 pm
Phil
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Default Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

My previous 1982 and 1991 Civics were quite reliable, but wonder what
happened on the 1991 Accord and 1995 Odyssey. Not sure if Honda reliability
is declining or maybe I just had a run of bad luck. Your experiences?

Accord: Power antenna gave up. Radio failed. Clutch master cylinder
leaking. Door lock failing. Broken engine mount. Ignition coil quit.
Valve cover oil leak. Spark plug ignition cables burned (by leaking oil
from valve cover). The oil pan bolts were so loose, one had fallen out, and
the rest could be spun one turn by your fingers. And now my daughter just
called and told me the car has stranded her AGAIN, this time by overheating
and coolant leaking. And of course, the usual replacement of both CV
joints, timing belt, etc..

But, if I thought the Accord was costly to maintain, the Odyssey proved the
Accord was no fluke.

The door panel on the driver's side is cracked under the upholstery. The
radiator cracked, causing overheating. The ABS unit gave up. The exhaust
pipe hanger near the engine broke. A motor mount was broken. It eats brake
pads. And of course the usual failure of front axle boots. The temperature
control lever is so stiff the end broke off. The temperature, even at the
coolest setting is always slightly warm. The wipers never stop chattering.
The radio goes into fits of static sometimes. And of course the usual
failure of front axle boots. Other than the usual replacement timing belts,
valve adjustments, and other maintenance, this under powered, yet fuel
vehicle is just fine.

The previous 1982 and '91 Civic were far more reliable. My current BMW
costs MUCH less to maintain than these two Hondas and is dead reliable on
top of it.

I can't ignore the good reputation Honda enjoys, but have to consider
something else if I want to avoid the too frequent experience of being
stranded on the side of the road.

- Phil



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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2004, 09:09 am
canuguy
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

I am NOT impressed with my 95 accord (bought new):
1) Camshaft broke = $2500 repair bill
2) Transmission let go = $1000 repair bill (replaced with used)
3) A/C broke
4) Power antenna broke
+ other odds and ends.
So much for Honda reliability.
My next car will be a Toyota.
Until now, i was totally a "Honda guy"

"Phil" <p.mentz@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:51Vmc.731$536.173641@attbi_s03...
> My previous 1982 and 1991 Civics were quite reliable, but wonder what
> happened on the 1991 Accord and 1995 Odyssey. Not sure if Honda

reliability
> is declining or maybe I just had a run of bad luck. Your experiences?
>
> Accord: Power antenna gave up. Radio failed. Clutch master cylinder
> leaking. Door lock failing. Broken engine mount. Ignition coil quit.
> Valve cover oil leak. Spark plug ignition cables burned (by leaking oil
> from valve cover). The oil pan bolts were so loose, one had fallen out,

and
> the rest could be spun one turn by your fingers. And now my daughter just
> called and told me the car has stranded her AGAIN, this time by

overheating
> and coolant leaking. And of course, the usual replacement of both CV
> joints, timing belt, etc..
>
> But, if I thought the Accord was costly to maintain, the Odyssey proved

the
> Accord was no fluke.
>
> The door panel on the driver's side is cracked under the upholstery. The
> radiator cracked, causing overheating. The ABS unit gave up. The exhaust
> pipe hanger near the engine broke. A motor mount was broken. It eats

brake
> pads. And of course the usual failure of front axle boots. The

temperature
> control lever is so stiff the end broke off. The temperature, even at the
> coolest setting is always slightly warm. The wipers never stop

chattering.
> The radio goes into fits of static sometimes. And of course the usual
> failure of front axle boots. Other than the usual replacement timing

belts,
> valve adjustments, and other maintenance, this under powered, yet fuel
> vehicle is just fine.
>
> The previous 1982 and '91 Civic were far more reliable. My current BMW
> costs MUCH less to maintain than these two Hondas and is dead reliable on
> top of it.
>
> I can't ignore the good reputation Honda enjoys, but have to consider
> something else if I want to avoid the too frequent experience of being
> stranded on the side of the road.
>
> - Phil
>
>
>



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2004, 11:25 am
Cosmin N.
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

canuguy wrote:

> I am NOT impressed with my 95 accord (bought new):
> 1) Camshaft broke = $2500 repair bill
> 2) Transmission let go = $1000 repair bill (replaced with used)
> 3) A/C broke
> 4) Power antenna broke
> + other odds and ends.
> So much for Honda reliability.
> My next car will be a Toyota.
> Until now, i was totally a "Honda guy"
>


How did you break the radio antenna? Did you clean it once in a while
with WD40? I know mine used to stick in the winter here in Ontario, but
because I was cleaning it once every 2-3 days (it takes less than
30secs), it kept working fine.

I had a 94 Accord EXR, and did not have a single major problem, other
than a the CV arms, balljoints and few electrical parts that were easy
to fix by myself (without buying new parts, just resoldering, cleaning
up contacts). I drove that car pretty hard, and it held together
amazingly well, I still received CAD$6k for it as a trade-in for my 01
Prelude SE.

Overall, Honda's reliability is as good as Toyota's, and it is much
better than most other manufacturer's. They have the odd lemmon, but so
do all other Japanese and European manufacturers. I'm not even going to
mention the domestics, the problems you and the OP mentioned on a
Detroit car would qualify it as reliable.

Cosmin
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2004, 03:04 pm
Phil
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

Just checked the Accord for the overheating problem I mentioned. The cheap
plastic radiator tank cracked. Great. I know what that costs to fix ($359)
since the exact same thing happened on our other Honda (Odyssey).

- Phil

"Phil" <p.mentz@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:51Vmc.731$536.173641@attbi_s03...
> My previous 1982 and 1991 Civics were quite reliable, but wonder what
> happened on the 1991 Accord and 1995 Odyssey. Not sure if Honda

reliability
> is declining or maybe I just had a run of bad luck. Your experiences?
>
> Accord: Power antenna gave up. Radio failed. Clutch master cylinder
> leaking. Door lock failing. Broken engine mount. Ignition coil quit.
> Valve cover oil leak. Spark plug ignition cables burned (by leaking oil
> from valve cover). The oil pan bolts were so loose, one had fallen out,

and
> the rest could be spun one turn by your fingers. And now my daughter just
> called and told me the car has stranded her AGAIN, this time by

overheating
> and coolant leaking. And of course, the usual replacement of both CV
> joints, timing belt, etc..
>
> But, if I thought the Accord was costly to maintain, the Odyssey proved

the
> Accord was no fluke.
>
> The door panel on the driver's side is cracked under the upholstery. The
> radiator cracked, causing overheating. The ABS unit gave up. The exhaust
> pipe hanger near the engine broke. A motor mount was broken. It eats

brake
> pads. And of course the usual failure of front axle boots. The

temperature
> control lever is so stiff the end broke off. The temperature, even at the
> coolest setting is always slightly warm. The wipers never stop

chattering.
> The radio goes into fits of static sometimes. And of course the usual
> failure of front axle boots. Other than the usual replacement timing

belts,
> valve adjustments, and other maintenance, this under powered, yet fuel
> vehicle is just fine.
>
> The previous 1982 and '91 Civic were far more reliable. My current BMW
> costs MUCH less to maintain than these two Hondas and is dead reliable on
> top of it.
>
> I can't ignore the good reputation Honda enjoys, but have to consider
> something else if I want to avoid the too frequent experience of being
> stranded on the side of the road.
>
> - Phil
>
>
>



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 08 May 2004, 05:24 pm
Chip Stein
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

"Cosmin N." <no@email.com> wrote in message news:<fS7nc.1354$pp.703@news04.bloor.is.net.cable. rogers.com>...
> canuguy wrote:
>
> > I am NOT impressed with my 95 accord (bought new):
> > 1) Camshaft broke = $2500 repair bill
> > 2) Transmission let go = $1000 repair bill (replaced with used)
> > 3) A/C broke
> > 4) Power antenna broke
> > + other odds and ends.
> > So much for Honda reliability.
> > My next car will be a Toyota.
> > Until now, i was totally a "Honda guy"


buy a toyota then you can experience the oil gelling problem and
their famous head gasket failures. every car has it's problems.
Chip
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10 May 2004, 12:23 pm
Ricky
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?


"Phil" <p.mentz@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:51Vmc.731$536.173641@attbi_s03...
> My previous 1982 and 1991 Civics were quite reliable, but wonder what
> happened on the 1991 Accord and 1995 Odyssey. Not sure if Honda

reliability
> is declining or maybe I just had a run of bad luck. Your experiences?
>
> Accord: Power antenna gave up. Radio failed. Clutch master cylinder
> leaking. Door lock failing. Broken engine mount. Ignition coil quit.
> Valve cover oil leak. Spark plug ignition cables burned (by leaking oil
> from valve cover). The oil pan bolts were so loose, one had fallen out,

and
> the rest could be spun one turn by your fingers. And now my daughter just
> called and told me the car has stranded her AGAIN, this time by

overheating
> and coolant leaking. And of course, the usual replacement of both CV
> joints, timing belt, etc..
>
> But, if I thought the Accord was costly to maintain, the Odyssey proved

the
> Accord was no fluke.
>
> The door panel on the driver's side is cracked under the upholstery. The
> radiator cracked, causing overheating. The ABS unit gave up. The exhaust
> pipe hanger near the engine broke. A motor mount was broken. It eats

brake
> pads. And of course the usual failure of front axle boots. The

temperature
> control lever is so stiff the end broke off. The temperature, even at the
> coolest setting is always slightly warm. The wipers never stop

chattering.
> The radio goes into fits of static sometimes. And of course the usual
> failure of front axle boots. Other than the usual replacement timing

belts,
> valve adjustments, and other maintenance, this under powered, yet fuel
> vehicle is just fine.
>
> The previous 1982 and '91 Civic were far more reliable. My current BMW
> costs MUCH less to maintain than these two Hondas and is dead reliable on
> top of it.
>
> I can't ignore the good reputation Honda enjoys, but have to consider
> something else if I want to avoid the too frequent experience of being
> stranded on the side of the road.
>
> - Phil
>
>

Phil, my 91 Honda has experienced almost all of what you have mentioned, and
lots more nuisance problems (except for clutch cylinder and broken engine
mount) but I still consider it one of the best/most reliable cars I have
ever owned. At this point it certainly wouldn't be ideal for a daughter
unless she had good mechanic skills, but is very well suited for someone who
enjoys tinkering and is keen enough to detect new sounds and problems before
they get out of hand(and is kind enough to share info here). Most everything
you mentioned would be a non-problem with good maintenance, or at least
could be a lot cheaper (Radiator fixed for under $100) It may not be for
everybody, but I just rolled 192K and plan on keeping it for another $50.

Now, I have heard many more horror stories about the Odyssey - but I figured
that is just part of owning a minivan.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10 May 2004, 06:15 pm
Phil
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

Ricky,

The reliability of my '91 Accord surprises me because two previous Hondas
were nowhere near as troublesome. If the reliability of my Accord is
normal, then I am quite disappointed. I should mention that I bought the
car new and it has been religiously maintained. I don't know where you are
going for a $100 radiator fix, but the same problem on our Odyssey with the
same engine as the Accord cost $359 at a well known and inexpensive Honda
only repair shop. Dealer costs for the same repairs have always been
higher.

Overall, the Accord gives me the distinct impression is was never meant to
see six digit (100,000+) miles.

- Phil

"Ricky" <rgmjr321@ATyahooDOT.com> wrote in message
news:VTOnc.8987$7r5.4746@newssvr23.news.prodigy.co m...
>
> "Phil" <p.mentz@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:51Vmc.731$536.173641@attbi_s03...
> > My previous 1982 and 1991 Civics were quite reliable, but wonder what
> > happened on the 1991 Accord and 1995 Odyssey. Not sure if Honda

> reliability
> > is declining or maybe I just had a run of bad luck. Your experiences?
> >
> > Accord: Power antenna gave up. Radio failed. Clutch master cylinder
> > leaking. Door lock failing. Broken engine mount. Ignition coil quit.
> > Valve cover oil leak. Spark plug ignition cables burned (by leaking oil
> > from valve cover). The oil pan bolts were so loose, one had fallen out,

> and
> > the rest could be spun one turn by your fingers. And now my daughter

just
> > called and told me the car has stranded her AGAIN, this time by

> overheating
> > and coolant leaking. And of course, the usual replacement of both CV
> > joints, timing belt, etc..
> >
> > But, if I thought the Accord was costly to maintain, the Odyssey proved

> the
> > Accord was no fluke.
> >
> > The door panel on the driver's side is cracked under the upholstery.

The
> > radiator cracked, causing overheating. The ABS unit gave up. The

exhaust
> > pipe hanger near the engine broke. A motor mount was broken. It eats

> brake
> > pads. And of course the usual failure of front axle boots. The

> temperature
> > control lever is so stiff the end broke off. The temperature, even at

the
> > coolest setting is always slightly warm. The wipers never stop

> chattering.
> > The radio goes into fits of static sometimes. And of course the usual
> > failure of front axle boots. Other than the usual replacement timing

> belts,
> > valve adjustments, and other maintenance, this under powered, yet fuel
> > vehicle is just fine.
> >
> > The previous 1982 and '91 Civic were far more reliable. My current BMW
> > costs MUCH less to maintain than these two Hondas and is dead reliable

on
> > top of it.
> >
> > I can't ignore the good reputation Honda enjoys, but have to consider
> > something else if I want to avoid the too frequent experience of being
> > stranded on the side of the road.
> >
> > - Phil
> >
> >

> Phil, my 91 Honda has experienced almost all of what you have mentioned,

and
> lots more nuisance problems (except for clutch cylinder and broken engine
> mount) but I still consider it one of the best/most reliable cars I have
> ever owned. At this point it certainly wouldn't be ideal for a daughter
> unless she had good mechanic skills, but is very well suited for someone

who
> enjoys tinkering and is keen enough to detect new sounds and problems

before
> they get out of hand(and is kind enough to share info here). Most

everything
> you mentioned would be a non-problem with good maintenance, or at least
> could be a lot cheaper (Radiator fixed for under $100) It may not be for
> everybody, but I just rolled 192K and plan on keeping it for another $50.
>
> Now, I have heard many more horror stories about the Odyssey - but I

figured
> that is just part of owning a minivan.
>
>



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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10 May 2004, 07:22 pm
JXStern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

On Fri, 07 May 2004 23:33:21 GMT, "Phil" <p.mentz@comcast.net> wrote:
>Accord: Power antenna gave up. Radio failed. Clutch master cylinder
>leaking. Door lock failing. Broken engine mount. Ignition coil quit.
>Valve cover oil leak. Spark plug ignition cables burned (by leaking oil
>from valve cover). The oil pan bolts were so loose, one had fallen out, and
>the rest could be spun one turn by your fingers. And now my daughter just
>called and told me the car has stranded her AGAIN, this time by overheating
>and coolant leaking. And of course, the usual replacement of both CV
>joints, timing belt, etc..


Some of these are more or less standard wear and tear, I'd expect on
most cars. Others are known wear items on Hondas, love it or leave
it. You want to give the mileage at which items failed.

My biggest bitch has been Honda master cylinders, which in my 2004
still seems weak from day one, as it as on my Acura 1999, and was a
real issue back on my Accord 1987 - they failed every 30,000 miles
like clockwork. And they were weak for some period before failure,
quite possibly from day one.

Similarly, the oil plug, and pan bolts, are seemingly expected to
fail, not that I understand why. Heating and cooling and dealer care
and I dunno.

My door *handle* broke on the Accord around 100k miles, repair shop
said it was common enough. The Acura I did the right thing, traded it
at 4 years, only serious problem was the tranny that never worked
right, but I just lived with it.

Did you get standard maintance the whole time, change the oil
regularly, anything, everything?

J.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10 May 2004, 07:52 pm
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

In article <sp60a0tg1th74knm2f656rp2hvb2a55qfl@4ax.com>,
JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote:

> My biggest bitch has been Honda master cylinders, which in my 2004
> still seems weak from day one, as it as on my Acura 1999, and was a
> real issue back on my Accord 1987 - they failed every 30,000 miles
> like clockwork.


Really?

I must be luckly. 92 Civic Si, 130K miles, still on original master
cylinder.

Come to think of it, I haven't had a single Honda where the master
cylinder went bad. That includes 3 79 Civics, an 82 Civic S (red), 88
wagon AWD, a 79 Accord, the 92 Civic, a 94 Civic, a 98 Odyssey, an 00
Accord, and my 02 Odyssey.

I've never had any braking problems, either. You must be doing
something wrong....

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10 May 2004, 09:20 pm
Jafir Elkurd
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Poor Reliability or Bad Luck?

Sometimes luck just doesn't seem to favor some people at certain times.
I've seen 90-93 accords with all the problems you mention as they pass
100,000 miles, and then I've seen similar 90-93 accords with out a single
major failure until almost 300,000 miles.

Some points to note: The 91 civic and the 82 accord do not have power
antennas. These cars also have cable clutches, which cannot leak. I've
never seen the valve cover leak on a properly maintained 90-93 accord....
because you are supposed to adjust the valves (and replace the gaskets)
every 15,000 miles. The radio in a 91 accord (especially the EX model) is
junk, after enough time. I've seen 91 civics and 82 accords with bad
radiators, bad distributors, bad cv joints, leaky oil pans, and I've seen 91
civics with bad door lock actuators.

Cars are complex machines, and if you are unlucky enough, even the most
reliable BMW will have problems.


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