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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 17 Apr 2004, 11:19 pm
Ampman117
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Default Doing some 87 Civic maintenance, have questions

My car is a 1987 Honda Civic 1.5, 4 door, with a carburetor.

Recently it has been giving me this problem: After it has been running
a few minutes, the engine will die completely, giving it gas will not
help. In fact giving it gas seems to do nothing, or even make it die
faster. Before it starts behaving this way though, it behaves
normally when you give it gas.

So anyway I havent done any regular maintenace on it since I bought it
(used 6 months ago) and I dont know when the previous owners last did
these things, so I am going to do the following:

1. Replace both fuel filters.
2. Replace the PCV valve
3. Replace the spark plugs
4. I replaced the air filter recently so I am NOT going to replace
that.

Some of the questions I have are kind of dumb, but here they are:

Question 1: I am using a jack and jack stands to support the car, but
I've never jacked up a car and supported it with stands so I dont know
where the jack locations are on my car. I looked in the manual and
there was a confusing picture and I tried to find them but I dont want
to put the jack on the wrong area and break something. Also, how do I
jack up the car and then put a jack stand under it, if they both need
to be supporting the same spot on the car, or is there a general area
where I can put the jack/jack stands?

Question 2: Does the 87 Civic 4 door have a PCV valve? I have a
Chilton manual, but the picture says "Std" but but also implies its
only valid for a "CRX." If so where exactly is the PCV valve located?
(another thing that the chilton manual doesnt make too clear)

Question 3: I got the replacement parts (fuel filters, PCV valve and
spark plugs) at AutoZone. Will these parts work well, or should I use
"Honda" parts?

Thank you very very muxh for any help with these, Id really like to
learn more about my car, and hopefully get it working again in the
process.

Jared
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 18 Apr 2004, 08:08 am
John Ings
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Doing some 87 Civic maintenance, have questions

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:19:35 -0700, Ampman117 <ampman117@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>My car is a 1987 Honda Civic 1.5, 4 door, with a carburetor.
>
>Recently it has been giving me this problem: After it has been running
>a few minutes, the engine will die completely, giving it gas will not
>help. In fact giving it gas seems to do nothing, or even make it die
>faster. Before it starts behaving this way though, it behaves
>normally when you give it gas.


In the mid 80s when some of Honda's cars were trying desperately to
meet the clean air legislation with diabolically complex carbs. It was
futile and they gave it up for fuel injection.

>Some of the questions I have are kind of dumb, but here they are:
>
>Question 1: I am using a jack and jack stands to support the car, but
>I've never jacked up a car and supported it with stands so I dont know
>where the jack locations are on my car. I looked in the manual and
>there was a confusing picture and I tried to find them but I dont want
>to put the jack on the wrong area and break something. Also, how do I
>jack up the car and then put a jack stand under it, if they both need
>to be supporting the same spot on the car, or is there a general area
>where I can put the jack/jack stands?


Are your jacking points in good shape? If the car has been driven in
salt they may be rusted out. What kind of a jack are you using?
If you have a decent floor jack, position it directly under the rad in
the center to lift the front (don't try this with one of those silly
scissor jacks). Place the jackstands under the lower suspension arms
or under the subframe where the arms are attached. It's hard to get
the car high enough with a scissor jack to properly position
jackstands. Do you have a hard surface to work on or is this a
backyard shadetree job?

At the back, jack up the rear axle one side at a time and place the
jackstands under it.

>Question 2: Does the 87 Civic 4 door have a PCV valve? I have a
>Chilton manual, but the picture says "Std" but but also implies its
>only valid for a "CRX." If so where exactly is the PCV valve located?
>(another thing that the chilton manual doesnt make too clear)


My knowledge of the carburetted versions is not extensive enough to
answer that for sure, but it probably has. Chilton and Haynes manuals
are a joke.

>Question 3: I got the replacement parts (fuel filters, PCV valve and
>spark plugs) at AutoZone. Will these parts work well, or should I use
>"Honda" parts?


I don't see why 3rd party stuff like that wouldn't be adequate.
I DO stick to Honda brake pads and oil filters though.

>Thank you very very muxh for any help with these, Id really like to
>learn more about my car, and hopefully get it working again in the
>process.


More advice here: http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/FAQ-intro.html

But get a REAL shop manual. It's got a cover printed in blue ink.
Where are you, in the US or Canada? Somewhere else in our global
village?



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 18 Apr 2004, 10:06 am
J M
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Doing some 87 Civic maintenance, have questions

Since it sounds like you are going to be keeping this car, the service
manual is definetly a good investment. You can get one at www.helminc.com .
I assure you, it is worth every penny.

As for jacking the car up....
You should put blocks behind the rear wheels if jacking up the front and
vice-versa if jacking up the back. Using a floor jack, jack up the front,
slowly since it is your first time, until the car is high enough the slip
the jackstands underneath it. Lower it slowly until it rests on both of
them, and then you can go ahead and remove the floor jack once the car is
secure. One important rule, NEVER go underneath the car until it is
securely on the jackstands. The floor jack is NOT enough to ensure your
safety. Most cars have jackpoints right behind the front wheels and right
in front of the rear wheels where you can also safely put the jackstands,
although you should definetly check on this in a manual for that year/model
before assuming anything. (they usually look like thick metal tabs
extending down from the body). Always look for signs if the metal bending
as you put weight onto the frame, especially the first time.

Oh, and cars typically have plenty of points were it can be jacked up by.
You'll want to use a floor jack at one of the points in the middle of the
car, and the jackstands on two different, symmetric points. If you can't
find the (or don't have, or don't feel that they are trustworthy) jackpoints
along the sides of the car, then put the stands underneath the lower
suspension arms, or at the hardpoints where they attach (as stated above).

Steel will tend to bend instead of snap when put under excess strain, so
take it easy and do some research ahead of time and you'll be fine.




"John Ings" <nodamned@spam.org> wrote in message
news1u480ltbi96vd1q3g4si2j8lgfb34gd4d@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:19:35 -0700, Ampman117 <ampman117@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >My car is a 1987 Honda Civic 1.5, 4 door, with a carburetor.
> >
> >Recently it has been giving me this problem: After it has been running
> >a few minutes, the engine will die completely, giving it gas will not
> >help. In fact giving it gas seems to do nothing, or even make it die
> >faster. Before it starts behaving this way though, it behaves
> >normally when you give it gas.

>
> In the mid 80s when some of Honda's cars were trying desperately to
> meet the clean air legislation with diabolically complex carbs. It was
> futile and they gave it up for fuel injection.
>
> >Some of the questions I have are kind of dumb, but here they are:
> >
> >Question 1: I am using a jack and jack stands to support the car, but
> >I've never jacked up a car and supported it with stands so I dont know
> >where the jack locations are on my car. I looked in the manual and
> >there was a confusing picture and I tried to find them but I dont want
> >to put the jack on the wrong area and break something. Also, how do I
> >jack up the car and then put a jack stand under it, if they both need
> >to be supporting the same spot on the car, or is there a general area
> >where I can put the jack/jack stands?

>
> Are your jacking points in good shape? If the car has been driven in
> salt they may be rusted out. What kind of a jack are you using?
> If you have a decent floor jack, position it directly under the rad in
> the center to lift the front (don't try this with one of those silly
> scissor jacks). Place the jackstands under the lower suspension arms
> or under the subframe where the arms are attached. It's hard to get
> the car high enough with a scissor jack to properly position
> jackstands. Do you have a hard surface to work on or is this a
> backyard shadetree job?
>
> At the back, jack up the rear axle one side at a time and place the
> jackstands under it.
>
> >Question 2: Does the 87 Civic 4 door have a PCV valve? I have a
> >Chilton manual, but the picture says "Std" but but also implies its
> >only valid for a "CRX." If so where exactly is the PCV valve located?
> >(another thing that the chilton manual doesnt make too clear)

>
> My knowledge of the carburetted versions is not extensive enough to
> answer that for sure, but it probably has. Chilton and Haynes manuals
> are a joke.
>
> >Question 3: I got the replacement parts (fuel filters, PCV valve and
> >spark plugs) at AutoZone. Will these parts work well, or should I use
> >"Honda" parts?

>
> I don't see why 3rd party stuff like that wouldn't be adequate.
> I DO stick to Honda brake pads and oil filters though.
>
> >Thank you very very muxh for any help with these, Id really like to
> >learn more about my car, and hopefully get it working again in the
> >process.

>
> More advice here: http://www3.telus.net/public/johnings/FAQ-intro.html
>
> But get a REAL shop manual. It's got a cover printed in blue ink.
> Where are you, in the US or Canada? Somewhere else in our global
> village?
>
>
>



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 18 Apr 2004, 11:46 am
Caroline
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Doing some 87 Civic maintenance, have questions

"Ampman117" <ampman117@yahoo.com> wrote
> My car is a 1987 Honda Civic 1.5, 4 door, with a carburetor.


The following is an online manual for 1984-1987 Civics:

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Worksho...-87/index.html

It may or may not be better than the Chilton's manaul you have. It might help
you with general troubleshooting.

I expect some others here will comment specifically on cleaning or even
rebuilding the carburetor. I haven't done this but from reading posts here this
seems to be among the counsel for symptoms like your car has.

> Recently it has been giving me this problem: After it has been running
> a few minutes, the engine will die completely, giving it gas will not
> help. In fact giving it gas seems to do nothing, or even make it die
> faster. Before it starts behaving this way though, it behaves
> normally when you give it gas.
>
> So anyway I havent done any regular maintenace on it since I bought it
> (used 6 months ago) and I dont know when the previous owners last did
> these things, so I am going to do the following:
>
> 1. Replace both fuel filters.
> 2. Replace the PCV valve
> 3. Replace the spark plugs
> 4. I replaced the air filter recently so I am NOT going to replace
> that.
>
> Some of the questions I have are kind of dumb, but here they are:
>
> Question 1: I am using a jack and [safety] stands to support the car, but
> I've never jacked up a car and supported it with stands so I dont know
> where the jack locations are on my car. I looked in the manual and
> there was a confusing picture and I tried to find them but I dont want
> to put the jack on the wrong area and break something.


Maybe the following drawings are better:

http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Worksho...2sb200/1-5.pdf

Like another poster said, salt and water may have corroded the notches
indicating where the jack goes. On my 1991 Civic, the front jacking point is
about 6 inches behind the mud flap. The rear jacking point is about 4 inches
forward of the end of the wheel fender.

> Also, how do I
> jack up the car and then put a jack stand under it, if they both need
> to be supporting the same spot on the car, or is there a general area
> where I can put the jack/jack stands?


General area is the only choice. I jack the car using points a little off the
exact jacking points, slip the safety stands in, then lower the car with the
jack so that the car rests on the safety stands at the point shown in the
drawings.

> Question 2: Does the 87 Civic 4 door have a PCV valve? I have a
> Chilton manual, but the picture says "Std" but but also implies its
> only valid for a "CRX." If so where exactly is the PCV valve located?
> (another thing that the chilton manual doesnt make too clear)


The online parts site that Majestic Honda provides (along with the manual at the
top of this post) suggests your car does have a PCV valve. The drawing at
http://tinyurl.com/25aog might help. The PCV valve is item 11. You should also
probably replace the PCV valve grommet (item 3). It costs only a few dollars.
Have the new PCV valve in hand and try to match it to what you see on your car
as you try to find the old one.

Instructions for replacing the PCV valve:
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Worksho...b200/12-21.pdf

> Question 3: I got the replacement parts (fuel filters, PCV valve and
> spark plugs) at AutoZone. Will these parts work well, or should I use
> "Honda" parts?


What spark plug manufacturer does the Chilton manual recommend?

The online manual I give at the top gives the spark plug specifications at
http://www.honda.co.uk/owner/Worksho...b200/26-18.pdf (right
column, about two thirds of the way down).

> Thank you very very muxh for any help with these, Id really like to
> learn more about my car, and hopefully get it working again in the
> process.



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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 19 Apr 2004, 04:07 pm
Ampman117
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Doing some 87 Civic maintenance...followup and two additional questions

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 21:19:35 -0700, Ampman117 <ampman117@yahoo.com>
wrote:

Thanks for the tips, I am doing this on a level concrete surface in
Portland, OR. so it was raining a bit today


Ive decided to tackle the front fuel filter first. To access the fuel
filter, I have removed the air filter housing from the top of the
carburetor, all except for this electrical wire that I think is
connected to the air temp sensor. I CANT get that thing out. is
there a trick to remove it? I dont really have to remove it to get
the job done, it would just be nice to not have it in the way at all.

Also i noticed a tube not connected to anything, it is the purge tube
from the charcoal canister for the emmissions control system. One end
is connected to the charcoal canister and the other is not connected.
In a block diagram, in the service manual, it shows that tube
connecting to the carburetor, and the disconnected end WAS in the rear
of the carburetor. I looked and looked but couldnt find where the
tube is supposed to connect. Does anyone know?

thanks

Jared


>My car is a 1987 Honda Civic 1.5, 4 door, with a carburetor.
>
>Recently it has been giving me this problem: After it has been running
>a few minutes, the engine will die completely, giving it gas will not
>help. In fact giving it gas seems to do nothing, or even make it die
>faster. Before it starts behaving this way though, it behaves
>normally when you give it gas.
>
>So anyway I havent done any regular maintenace on it since I bought it
>(used 6 months ago) and I dont know when the previous owners last did
>these things, so I am going to do the following:
>
>1. Replace both fuel filters.
>2. Replace the PCV valve
>3. Replace the spark plugs
>4. I replaced the air filter recently so I am NOT going to replace
>that.
>
>Some of the questions I have are kind of dumb, but here they are:
>
>Question 1: I am using a jack and jack stands to support the car, but
>I've never jacked up a car and supported it with stands so I dont know
>where the jack locations are on my car. I looked in the manual and
>there was a confusing picture and I tried to find them but I dont want
>to put the jack on the wrong area and break something. Also, how do I
>jack up the car and then put a jack stand under it, if they both need
>to be supporting the same spot on the car, or is there a general area
>where I can put the jack/jack stands?
>
>Question 2: Does the 87 Civic 4 door have a PCV valve? I have a
>Chilton manual, but the picture says "Std" but but also implies its
>only valid for a "CRX." If so where exactly is the PCV valve located?
>(another thing that the chilton manual doesnt make too clear)
>
>Question 3: I got the replacement parts (fuel filters, PCV valve and
>spark plugs) at AutoZone. Will these parts work well, or should I use
>"Honda" parts?
>
>Thank you very very muxh for any help with these, Id really like to
>learn more about my car, and hopefully get it working again in the
>process.
>
>Jared


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 19 Apr 2004, 07:33 pm
John Ings
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Doing some 87 Civic maintenance...followup and two additional questions

On Mon, 19 Apr 2004 14:07:56 -0700, Ampman117 <ampman117@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>>Recently it has been giving me this problem: After it has been running
>>a few minutes, the engine will die completely, giving it gas will not
>>help. In fact giving it gas seems to do nothing, or even make it die
>>faster.


>Also i noticed a tube not connected to anything, it is the purge tube
>from the charcoal canister for the emmissions control system. One end
>is connected to the charcoal canister and the other is not connected.
>In a block diagram, in the service manual, it shows that tube
>connecting to the carburetor, and the disconnected end WAS in the rear
>of the carburetor. I looked and looked but couldnt find where the
>tube is supposed to connect. Does anyone know?


Sounds like you found your problem!

On a fuel injected car that tube would go to a solenoid valve that is
under the control of the car's ECU. Where it goes on a carburetted car
I dunno, but your stalling symptoms sound as if you have an open
vacuum line around there somewhere! A decent manual would be your best
bet, but failing that; with the engine running, feel around the carb
for any kind of proturbance that's sucking air. If you cover something
and the engine speeds up, you've probably found it.


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