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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 15 Apr 2004, 10:51 pm
disallow
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Default Motor Oils and oil filters

Hi there,

I have a 98 civic with 190000kms on it. I have been running
Mobil 1 Supersyn for the last 150000km or so, and its still
goin strong.

Anyways, my question is, is there a good place to get info
regarding the quality of different oils? most data i
find are purely based on opinion (which there is nothing
wrong with), but i would also like to back that up with
some scientific proof.

For instance, I can buy Tech2000 synthetic from walmart for
$20/4 liters, so is this oil any worse than Mobil 1, which
I can buy for $25/4L? Also, is there a demonstrable diffence
between running regular motor oil vs synthetics? or am i
wasting my money?

Also, regarding oil filters, is there any imperical data
regarding different oil filters? I have been very good at
sticking to OEM filters, but recently honda told me they
changed suppliers, and now there is a 'Honeywell' logo on
the side of the filter. Well, honeywell also makes filters
for FRAM, Quaker state, and many others. So is there still a
difference? Or has the quality gone down? (It is quite a
bit smaller now).

Is there a resource that goes over the specific filtration
properties of these filters?

Anyways, just thought I would ask.

t

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 16 Apr 2004, 09:32 am
CaptainKrunch
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Motor Oils and oil filters

Sorry I can't be of more help but I will say that you will see opinions on
the matter from one end of the spectrum to the other concerning oils and
filters.

There are people that have a few hundred thousand miles on their engines and
use dino oil instead of synthetic. I am sure that is true but I prefer
Mobil 1 synthetic myself. I don't have any specific sites in mind but all
data provided on the websites I have seen show that synthetic is superior to
dino oil. The fact is it takes a higher temperature to break down synthetic
oil and that is significant.

I have to go to work now but try searching for synthetic oil specifications
on google or something.

CaptainKrunch




"disallow" <loewen_t@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:823d5a1f9905e089e241533babd56e72@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Hi there,
>
> I have a 98 civic with 190000kms on it. I have been running
> Mobil 1 Supersyn for the last 150000km or so, and its still
> goin strong.
>
> Anyways, my question is, is there a good place to get info
> regarding the quality of different oils? most data i
> find are purely based on opinion (which there is nothing
> wrong with), but i would also like to back that up with
> some scientific proof.
>
> For instance, I can buy Tech2000 synthetic from walmart for
> $20/4 liters, so is this oil any worse than Mobil 1, which
> I can buy for $25/4L? Also, is there a demonstrable diffence
> between running regular motor oil vs synthetics? or am i
> wasting my money?
>
> Also, regarding oil filters, is there any imperical data
> regarding different oil filters? I have been very good at
> sticking to OEM filters, but recently honda told me they
> changed suppliers, and now there is a 'Honeywell' logo on
> the side of the filter. Well, honeywell also makes filters
> for FRAM, Quaker state, and many others. So is there still a
> difference? Or has the quality gone down? (It is quite a
> bit smaller now).
>
> Is there a resource that goes over the specific filtration
> properties of these filters?
>
> Anyways, just thought I would ask.
>
> t
>



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 16 Apr 2004, 10:32 am
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Motor Oils and oil filters

1) Oil - If all you want is to buy a "synthetic" then by all means go for
the Wal-Mart brand. PepBoys also has a low priced 'synthetic' but I wouldn't
use it. However, bear in mind that since the mass merchendiser stores are
selling at such a low price corners have had to be cut in order to put that
quart on the shelf at the selling price you see. The difference between $20
and $25 for 4 litres is minimal. Personally, I'd go with the Mobil1. Another
consideration: Pennzoil top of the line product is made using their "Pure
Base" base oil which is their brand name for their Group III base oil.
GpIII is now used by many of the majors in their "synthetic" oils, e.g.
Castrol Syntec, Amsoil XL7500 and many others. Merely picking a "synthetic"
doesn't mean high quality. As the Syms clothing store ad says: An educated
consumer is our best customer. You need to find dig out performance data;
viscosity index numbers, high temp/high shear results, etc. Cruise over to
http://bobistheoilguy.com/ to read more than you ever wanted to know about
lubes. I think he is a rep for Schaeffers so some of the info is from that
perspective but its a great site nevertheless.
2) Oil Filters - You will find a ton of information about the construction
of oil filters but very little about how well they work. What you need to
know is filter efficiency (how well it traps dirt) / filter capacity (how
much dirt it will hold) and the overall filter "Beta number." Some filter
ads claim they "remove 95% of particles!" but they don't tell you anything
else like what the particle size range was or 95% of what. Most filters do a
great job taking out grit that is larger than 20 microns in size. (btw, a
red blood cell is 7 microns) Get them to tell you how well they do at the
10, 15 and 20 micron ranges. You will find that efficiency drops off
significantly as the particle size gets smaller.
pb

"disallow" <loewen_t@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:823d5a1f9905e089e241533babd56e72@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> Hi there,
>
> I have a 98 civic with 190000kms on it. I have been running
> Mobil 1 Supersyn for the last 150000km or so, and its still
> goin strong.
>
> Anyways, my question is, is there a good place to get info
> regarding the quality of different oils? most data i
> find are purely based on opinion (which there is nothing
> wrong with), but i would also like to back that up with
> some scientific proof.
>
> For instance, I can buy Tech2000 synthetic from walmart for
> $20/4 liters, so is this oil any worse than Mobil 1, which
> I can buy for $25/4L? Also, is there a demonstrable diffence
> between running regular motor oil vs synthetics? or am i
> wasting my money?
>
> Also, regarding oil filters, is there any imperical data
> regarding different oil filters? I have been very good at
> sticking to OEM filters, but recently honda told me they
> changed suppliers, and now there is a 'Honeywell' logo on
> the side of the filter. Well, honeywell also makes filters
> for FRAM, Quaker state, and many others. So is there still a
> difference? Or has the quality gone down? (It is quite a
> bit smaller now).
>
> Is there a resource that goes over the specific filtration
> properties of these filters?
>
> Anyways, just thought I would ask.
>
> t



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 16 Apr 2004, 02:51 pm
disallow
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Motor Oils and oil filters

See, this is exactly what I am trying to get away from. You
state alot of opinions, but are not backed up with
any science. What corners are cut? What is the real difference?

Thanks for the resources though, I will keep trying to find
more information.

t

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 16 Apr 2004, 04:03 pm
bkapaun@hotdeletemail.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Motor Oils and oil filters

In article
<823d5a1f9905e089e241533babd56e72@localhost.talkab outautos.com>,
"disallow" <loewen_t@yahoo.ca> wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>I have a 98 civic with 190000kms on it. I have been running
>Mobil 1 Supersyn for the last 150000km or so, and its still
>goin strong.
>
>Anyways, my question is, is there a good place to get info
>regarding the quality of different oils? most data i
>find are purely based on opinion (which there is nothing
>wrong with), but i would also like to back that up with
>some scientific proof.
>
>For instance, I can buy Tech2000 synthetic from walmart for
>$20/4 liters, so is this oil any worse than Mobil 1, which
>I can buy for $25/4L? Also, is there a demonstrable diffence
>between running regular motor oil vs synthetics? or am i
>wasting my money?
>
>Also, regarding oil filters, is there any imperical data
>regarding different oil filters? I have been very good at
>sticking to OEM filters, but recently honda told me they
>changed suppliers, and now there is a 'Honeywell' logo on
>the side of the filter. Well, honeywell also makes filters
>for FRAM, Quaker state, and many others. So is there still a
>difference? Or has the quality gone down? (It is quite a
>bit smaller now).
>
>Is there a resource that goes over the specific filtration
>properties of these filters?
>
>Anyways, just thought I would ask.
>
>t


http://theoildrop.server101.com/
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 19 Apr 2004, 10:27 am
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Motor Oils and oil filters

Not scientific enough?! What exactly are you thinking is opinion vs a
'scientific' explanation? I'm happy to try to elaborate if you'll be
specific.
1) I'm telling you that many 'synthetic' oils contain groupIII base stocks.
How much more specific do you want? If you want to know exactly which ones
contain GpIII and which contain entirely PAO and which contain a combination
of the two You will need to search through the websites and locate the
MSDS's yourself. I'm not about to go through my files to dig this out for
you. And, likewise, as stated, you will see the quality differences in the
technical data for any given product in the results of tests for things like
viscosity index numbers, high temp/high shear results, etc. You will need to
look at the overall picture this data presents. Like anything in statistics
if you look at too narrow of a sample field you can could draw eroneous
(sp?) conclusions. For example, vegetable oil has a very high viscosity
index and hence is an attractive candidate for lubricants but its heat and
oxidation stability is thus far not as good as alternatives.
Most oil company product literature you will find contains only the
'opinions' you're trying to get underneath. It'll tell some basic stuff like
viscosity at 100C, it meets API/JASO/ACEA standards as well as claiming
increased this and eliminates that and improved whatever - but not anything
"meaty" by which you can make an informed decision.
Or, other companies will provide one or two very impressive test results
[hopefully from something standardized like an ASTM procedure and not
something bogus like a modification of the ancient egyptian nile
extrapolator test! ;-) ] but no results for anything else.

Corners cut are any of the following possibilities;
a) type, quantity and quality of the ester used in the formula,
b) type, quantity and quality of the detergent package,
c) type, quantity and quality of the antiwear package
and so on. Think about this: A quart of house brand 'synthetic' oil at
Wal-mart sells for, lets say, $2.00. Convert this to gallons => $8.00
Wal-mart makes a profit (usually, unless its a 'loss leader' to get you into
the store. Usually something like GTX is used for this strategy, not the
synthetics) and so does whoever blended and packaged it for Wal-Mart. Lets
say 5% net margin for each, so we're down to $7.20 The formula contains
about 80% base oil. Lets say it costs $4.00 per gallon. We're down to $3.20.
Packaging, distribution, financing (since Wal-Mart does not pay their bill
for 90 days) etc., costs the blender another, what 50? so we're down to
$2.70 per gallon left over which can be spent on additives. This ain't much.
The company that spends nore on additives will produce a better performing
engine oil, ATF, grease, whatever.


"disallow" <loewen_t@yahoo.ca> wrote in message
news:8ace20d5d0144dcc02e1f9a1a293419f@localhost.ta lkaboutautos.com...
> See, this is exactly what I am trying to get away from. You
> state alot of opinions, but are not backed up with
> any science. What corners are cut? What is the real difference?
> Thanks for the resources though, I will keep trying to find
> more information.
> t



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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 25 Apr 2004, 01:48 am
John Horner
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Motor Oils and oil filters


> Anyways, my question is, is there a good place to get info
> regarding the quality of different oils? most data i
> find are purely based on opinion (which there is nothing
> wrong with), but i would also like to back that up with
> some scientific proof.
>


Lots of information is posted on the forums at www.bobistheoilguy.com,
including used oil analysis results as people get them.

There is also plenty of unsubstantiated opinion, but even so much can be
learned by doing some extensive reading there.

john



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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 01 May 2004, 11:32 pm
Chris
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Motor Oils and oil filters

What a buffoon! Anyway who wants more scientific info than that, needs to
take a leap- one giant leap!

"John Horner" <jthorner@verizon.net> wrote in message
newsbJic.69274$L31.21517@nwrddc01.gnilink.net...
>
> > Anyways, my question is, is there a good place to get info
> > regarding the quality of different oils? most data i
> > find are purely based on opinion (which there is nothing
> > wrong with), but i would also like to back that up with
> > some scientific proof.
> >

>
> Lots of information is posted on the forums at www.bobistheoilguy.com,
> including used oil analysis results as people get them.
>
> There is also plenty of unsubstantiated opinion, but even so much can be
> learned by doing some extensive reading there.
>
> john
>
>
>



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