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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01 May 2009, 09:44 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

like this Saturn rental:

http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-r...l-change-engin
e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01 May 2009, 12:47 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-9B04BE.10441201052009@mara100-84.onlink.net:

> like this Saturn rental:
>
> http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-r...l-change-engin
> e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
>




Let's fix that link up a bit...
<http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-engine-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles>


My own site has a few interesting pics:
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html>
and
<http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html>


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 02 May 2009, 08:52 am
jim beam
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Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

Tegger wrote:
> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-9B04BE.10441201052009@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>
>> like this Saturn rental:
>>
>> http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-r...l-change-engin
>> e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
>>

>
>
>
> Let's fix that link up a bit...
> <http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-rental-car-never-gets-oil-change-engine-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles>
>
>
> My own site has a few interesting pics:
> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html>
> and
> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html>
>
>


the funny thing is though, neither of those two engines show signs of
extraordinary wear. sludge, yes. [typical of short trip stuff where
the motor doesn't warm up properly.] should they have changed their
oil, yes. but those cams are not distressed so no mechanical harm done.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 02 May 2009, 08:59 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
news:JqqdnSr5u9qEzWHUnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:

> Tegger wrote:
>> "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
>> news:elmop-9B04BE.10441201052009@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>>
>>> like this Saturn rental:
>>>
>>> http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-r...s-oil-change-e
>>> ngin e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
>>>

>>
>>
>>
>> Let's fix that link up a bit...
>> <http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-r...s-oil-change-e
>> ngine-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles>
>>
>>
>> My own site has a few interesting pics:
>> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html>
>> and
>> <http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html>
>>
>>

>
> the funny thing is though, neither of those two engines show signs of
> extraordinary wear. sludge, yes. [typical of short trip stuff where
> the motor doesn't warm up properly.] should they have changed their
> oil, yes. but those cams are not distressed so no mechanical harm
> done.
>




I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil pickup
screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What ultimately
kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 02 May 2009, 10:48 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve



Tegger wrote:
> jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote in
> news:JqqdnSr5u9qEzWHUnZ2dnUVZ_t2dnZ2d@speakeasy.ne t:
>
>
>>Tegger wrote:
>>
>>>"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in
>>>news:elmop-9B04BE.10441201052009@mara100-84.onlink.net:
>>>
>>>
>>>>like this Saturn rental:
>>>>
>>>>http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-r...s-oil-change-e
>>>>ngin e-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Let's fix that link up a bit...
>>><http://jalopnik.com/5235675/saturn-r...s-oil-change-e
>>>ngine-carnage-ensues-after-30000-miles>
>>>
>>>
>>>My own site has a few interesting pics:
>>><http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/index.html>
>>>and
>>><http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/sludge/cleaning_sludge.html>
>>>
>>>

>>the funny thing is though, neither of those two engines show signs of
>>extraordinary wear. sludge, yes. [typical of short trip stuff where
>>the motor doesn't warm up properly.] should they have changed their
>>oil, yes. but those cams are not distressed so no mechanical harm
>>done.
>>

>
>
>
>
> I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil pickup
> screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What ultimately
> kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.



At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low oil
pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.

OTOH, old worn out oil can be hard on bearing surfaces. I had a failure
on a V6 cam, (right after the second lobe), after a run of 10K between
oil changes including a few "check engine" lights. Car had 160K on it
and it failed suddenly and took about a month of tryin' this 'n that
before finally pulling the intake manifold which revealed the ugly truth.

Thankfully, the rearmost bearing was ok but the others not so good but
in a position to replace without pulling the engine.

Now, I'm pretty fastidious with regard to oil changes... Usually about
5K with dino oils.

JT
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 03 May 2009, 07:29 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
news:Au8Ll.22704$941.5888@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:

>
>
> Tegger wrote:


>>
>> I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil pickup
>> screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What
>> ultimately kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.

>
>
> At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low oil
> pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.




People who let their oil go that long are not the sort to pay much
attention to how well the engine is running. Or else they studiously ignore
any evident problems, perhaps in the hopes that they will go away on their
own.



>
> OTOH, old worn out oil can be hard on bearing surfaces. I had a
> failure on a V6 cam, (right after the second lobe), after a run of 10K
> between oil changes including a few "check engine" lights. Car had
> 160K on it and it failed suddenly and took about a month of tryin'
> this 'n that before finally pulling the intake manifold which revealed
> the ugly truth.
>
> Thankfully, the rearmost bearing was ok but the others not so good but
> in a position to replace without pulling the engine.
>
> Now, I'm pretty fastidious with regard to oil changes... Usually about
> 5K with dino oils.
>



I'm 3K or less, with synthetic. Yeah, I know. It's "recreational" oil
changing. It makes me feel better.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 03 May 2009, 08:34 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

Tegger wrote:
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
> news:Au8Ll.22704$941.5888@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>>
>> Tegger wrote:

>
>>> I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil pickup
>>> screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What
>>> ultimately kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.

>>
>> At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low oil
>> pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.

>
>
>
> People who let their oil go that long are not the sort to pay much
> attention to how well the engine is running. Or else they studiously ignore
> any evident problems, perhaps in the hopes that they will go away on their
> own.


i let my oil go long, but i pay studious attention to how well the
engine's running.


>
>
>
>> OTOH, old worn out oil can be hard on bearing surfaces. I had a
>> failure on a V6 cam, (right after the second lobe), after a run of 10K
>> between oil changes including a few "check engine" lights. Car had
>> 160K on it and it failed suddenly and took about a month of tryin'
>> this 'n that before finally pulling the intake manifold which revealed
>> the ugly truth.
>>
>> Thankfully, the rearmost bearing was ok but the others not so good but
>> in a position to replace without pulling the engine.
>>
>> Now, I'm pretty fastidious with regard to oil changes... Usually about
>> 5K with dino oils.
>>

>
>
> I'm 3K or less, with synthetic. Yeah, I know. It's "recreational" oil
> changing. It makes me feel better.


dude, with respect, that's crazy. a quality synthetic is formulated to
let you run long. the conditions to be met include:

1. base oil doesn't break down
2. additives don't break down
3. other additives cope with the chemistry

conventional oil bases do break down, their additives break down, and
because of the first two, they also have a correspondingly lowered
ability to cope with chemical load like acids. given that #'s 1 & 2 are
easy for synthetics to achieve, #3 is the one to look for, and it's
/loaded/ so it can go way beyond your 3k.

discoloration of the oil doesn't mean a damned thing since the filter
ensures particles are below the wear threshold. my buddy who works for
exxon-mobil has a chevy tahoe. the fall-back factory service interval
on that is 3k. using the analysis resources he has available, he has
the service interval pushed out to 25k. again, that's a 25,000 mile oil
change interval based on analysis.

conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 03 May 2009, 09:14 am
L Alpert
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve


"Tegger" <invalid@invalid.inv> wrote in message
news:Xns9C005663F6B06tegger@208.90.168.18...
> Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote in
> news:Au8Ll.22704$941.5888@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net:
>
>>
>>
>> Tegger wrote:

>
>>>
>>> I was told (by more than one mechanic) that so long as the oil
>>> pickup
>>> screen isn't plugged, engines can survive a lot of sludge. What
>>> ultimately kills them is blockage of the oil pickup screen.

>>
>>
>> At which time all kinds of alarms should be going off such as low
>> oil
>> pressure often accompanied by overheating etc.

>
>
>
> People who let their oil go that long are not the sort to pay much
> attention to how well the engine is running. Or else they studiously
> ignore
> any evident problems, perhaps in the hopes that they will go away on
> their
> own.
>
>


When I was a kid, I had an old Rambler that leaked/burned so much oil,
it was in a state of perpetual change.....

>
>>
>> OTOH, old worn out oil can be hard on bearing surfaces. I had a
>> failure on a V6 cam, (right after the second lobe), after a run of
>> 10K
>> between oil changes including a few "check engine" lights. Car had
>> 160K on it and it failed suddenly and took about a month of tryin'
>> this 'n that before finally pulling the intake manifold which
>> revealed
>> the ugly truth.
>>
>> Thankfully, the rearmost bearing was ok but the others not so good
>> but
>> in a position to replace without pulling the engine.
>>
>> Now, I'm pretty fastidious with regard to oil changes... Usually
>> about
>> 5K with dino oils.
>>

>
>
> I'm 3K or less, with synthetic. Yeah, I know. It's "recreational"
> oil
> changing. It makes me feel better.
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 03 May 2009, 10:35 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

In article <syhLl.17728$D32.10787@flpi146.ffdc.sbc.com>,
"L Alpert" <alpertl@xxgmail.com> wrote:

> When I was a kid, I had an old Rambler that leaked/burned so much oil,
> it was in a state of perpetual change.....


I had a 79 Civic, same thing. When the oil light flickered on a hard
right turn, it was time to add more.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 03 May 2009, 10:36 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Never change your oil? You get what you deserve

In article <wv2dne7lMa_TAGDUnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> ,
jim beam <me@privacy.net> wrote:

> conclusion: 3k on synthetic is crazy.


well, he DID say it was recreational.

I think fishing is crazy, but...
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