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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27 Apr 2009, 01:21 pm
danbobterror@gmail.com
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Default 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

Hi, I've had my 2001 Prelude since new. Manual, special edition. It
has burned oil since about a year or two into ownership. I brought it
in to the dealer a few times and was always told it was 'normal' for
preludes to burn a bit of oil. Last fall, the car had trouble
starting. This spring it just wouldn't. Brought it in and dealer said
spark plugs were fowled badly due to oil and engine codes showed a
number of misfires, etc. Dealer said I need a new lower half to the
engine!! WTF? Is this typical? Is there any way around this? I told
the guy to change the spark plugs and left. Engine light came on a day
later. *sigh* Do I have any options? Is this car only going to last me
another month? Thanks,

-Rob
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 27 Apr 2009, 02:42 pm
Leftie
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Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

danbobterror@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, I've had my 2001 Prelude since new. Manual, special edition. It
> has burned oil since about a year or two into ownership. I brought it
> in to the dealer a few times and was always told it was 'normal' for
> preludes to burn a bit of oil. Last fall, the car had trouble
> starting. This spring it just wouldn't. Brought it in and dealer said
> spark plugs were fowled badly due to oil and engine codes showed a
> number of misfires, etc. Dealer said I need a new lower half to the
> engine!! WTF? Is this typical? Is there any way around this? I told
> the guy to change the spark plugs and left. Engine light came on a day
> later. *sigh* Do I have any options? Is this car only going to last me
> another month? Thanks,
>
> -Rob



What weight oil are you using? I found that my Civic would burn oil
after 60k miles on 5W-30, but not with 10W-30. If you are using 0W- or
5W-, try going up to 10W-. It shouldn't make a difference, yet it does.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 27 Apr 2009, 05:12 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:%1nJl.91412$GU6.21230@newsfe09.iad:

> danbobterror@gmail.com wrote:
>> Hi, I've had my 2001 Prelude since new. Manual, special edition. It
>> has burned oil since about a year or two into ownership. I brought it
>> in to the dealer a few times and was always told it was 'normal' for
>> preludes to burn a bit of oil. Last fall, the car had trouble
>> starting. This spring it just wouldn't. Brought it in and dealer said
>> spark plugs were fowled badly due to oil and engine codes showed a
>> number of misfires, etc. Dealer said I need a new lower half to the
>> engine!! WTF? Is this typical? Is there any way around this? I told
>> the guy to change the spark plugs and left. Engine light came on a day
>> later. *sigh* Do I have any options? Is this car only going to last me
>> another month? Thanks,
>>
>> -Rob

>
>
> What weight oil are you using? I found that my Civic would burn oil
> after 60k miles




Then you have some kind of serious problem. No modern engine should get
anything less than 8,000 miles per quart even at 100,000K.




> on 5W-30, but not with 10W-30.




After extensive testing of my own, I have found that there is zero
difference in oil consumption between 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40.



> If you are using 0W- or
> 5W-, try going up to 10W-. It shouldn't make a difference, yet it does.




I'd like to know your methodology.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 27 Apr 2009, 11:01 pm
Grumpy AuContraire
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??



Tegger wrote:

> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:%1nJl.91412$GU6.21230@newsfe09.iad:
>
>
>>danbobterror@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>Hi, I've had my 2001 Prelude since new. Manual, special edition. It
>>>has burned oil since about a year or two into ownership. I brought it
>>>in to the dealer a few times and was always told it was 'normal' for
>>>preludes to burn a bit of oil. Last fall, the car had trouble
>>>starting. This spring it just wouldn't. Brought it in and dealer said
>>>spark plugs were fowled badly due to oil and engine codes showed a
>>>number of misfires, etc. Dealer said I need a new lower half to the
>>>engine!! WTF? Is this typical? Is there any way around this? I told
>>>the guy to change the spark plugs and left. Engine light came on a day
>>>later. *sigh* Do I have any options? Is this car only going to last me
>>>another month? Thanks,
>>>
>>>-Rob

>>
>>
>> What weight oil are you using? I found that my Civic would burn oil
>>after 60k miles

>
>
>
>
> Then you have some kind of serious problem. No modern engine should get
> anything less than 8,000 miles per quart even at 100,000K.
>
>
>
>
>
>>on 5W-30, but not with 10W-30.

>
>
>
>
> After extensive testing of my own, I have found that there is zero
> difference in oil consumption between 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40.
>
>
>
>
>> If you are using 0W- or
>>5W-, try going up to 10W-. It shouldn't make a difference, yet it does.

>
>
>
>
> I'd like to know your methodology.
>




I would think that a compression test is in order. If the car has
always used oil, methinks ring problem or ventilation right from the
factory that never got corrected.

JT

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 27 Apr 2009, 11:36 pm
Leftie
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

Tegger wrote:
> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:%1nJl.91412$GU6.21230@newsfe09.iad:
>
>> danbobterror@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Hi, I've had my 2001 Prelude since new. Manual, special edition. It
>>> has burned oil since about a year or two into ownership. I brought it
>>> in to the dealer a few times and was always told it was 'normal' for
>>> preludes to burn a bit of oil. Last fall, the car had trouble
>>> starting. This spring it just wouldn't. Brought it in and dealer said
>>> spark plugs were fowled badly due to oil and engine codes showed a
>>> number of misfires, etc. Dealer said I need a new lower half to the
>>> engine!! WTF? Is this typical? Is there any way around this? I told
>>> the guy to change the spark plugs and left. Engine light came on a day
>>> later. *sigh* Do I have any options? Is this car only going to last me
>>> another month? Thanks,
>>>
>>> -Rob

>>
>> What weight oil are you using? I found that my Civic would burn oil
>> after 60k miles

>
>
>
> Then you have some kind of serious problem. No modern engine should get
> anything less than 8,000 miles per quart even at 100,000K.
>
>
>
>
>> on 5W-30, but not with 10W-30.

>
>
>
> After extensive testing of my own, I have found that there is zero
> difference in oil consumption between 5W-30, 10W-30 and 10W-40.
>
>
>
>> If you are using 0W- or
>> 5W-, try going up to 10W-. It shouldn't make a difference, yet it does.

>
>
>
> I'd like to know your methodology.
>
>
>


The Civic was run on Mobil One 15W-50 and 5W-30 full synthetic after
the break-in period. It used virtually no oil between changes. The
valves were always adjusted on schedule. After it hit about 70k miles I
noticed rough running; it was diagnosed as oil-fouled plugs and O2
sensor. It was also down most of a quart of oil for the first time ever.
They replaced the plugs, I replaced the sensor, and I stopped using the
5W- synthetic, using either the 15W-50 or a different brand of 10W-30
full synthetic. The car stopped burning oil and ten years later just
suffered only a little leakdown if it sat for more than a few days. It
was still fine when I sold it after 23 years and 146k miles. When I
tried the same thing with an AMC six that was using oil, the oil
consumption also stopped.

To sum up, we've had opposite experiences with changing viscosities.
I suspect that yours was due to the engines not using excessive oil in
the first place - correct me if I'm wrong on that. It certainly won't
hurt for this guy to switch to 10W-30, and it may help. I hope he tries
it and reports back.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 28 Apr 2009, 02:41 am
Greg Campbell
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

danbobterror@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi, I've had my 2001 Prelude since new. Manual, special edition. It
> has burned oil since about a year or two into ownership. I brought it
> in to the dealer a few times and was always told it was 'normal' for
> preludes to burn a bit of oil. Last fall, the car had trouble
> starting. This spring it just wouldn't. Brought it in and dealer said
> spark plugs were fowled badly due to oil and engine codes showed a
> number of misfires, etc. Dealer said I need a new lower half to the
> engine!! WTF? Is this typical? Is there any way around this? I told
> the guy to change the spark plugs and left. Engine light came on a day
> later. *sigh* Do I have any options? Is this car only going to last me
> another month? Thanks,
>
> -Rob



Have you checked the PCV valve and associated plumbing?
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 28 Apr 2009, 05:55 am
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in
news:aTuJl.108985$e_5.69932@newsfe03.iad:

> Tegger wrote:


>>
>>
>>
>> I'd like to know your methodology.
>>
>>
>>

>
> The Civic was run on Mobil One 15W-50





15W-50 was not good choice. You surely suffered at least oil pump damage
and bearing damage if not ring damage as well using that stuff.



> and 5W-30 full synthetic
> after
> the break-in period. It used virtually no oil between changes. The
> valves were always adjusted on schedule. After it hit about 70k miles
> I noticed rough running; it was diagnosed as oil-fouled plugs and O2
> sensor. It was also down most of a quart of oil for the first time
> ever. They replaced the plugs, I replaced the sensor, and I stopped
> using the 5W- synthetic, using either the 15W-50




Why on earth would you use that viscosity? Your Honda's oil pump was not
designed for it, and your Owner's Manual certainly does not call for it.

No wonder you're burning oil; you broke your engine.



> or a different brand
> of 10W-30 full synthetic. The car stopped burning oil and ten years
> later just suffered only a little leakdown if it sat for more than a
> few days. It was still fine when I sold it after 23 years and 146k
> miles. When I tried the same thing with an AMC six that was using oil,
> the oil consumption also stopped.




That was an older design of engine. Older-design engines often benefited
from oil of higher viscosities once the miles piled up.



>
> To sum up, we've had opposite experiences with changing
> viscosities.
> I suspect that yours was due to the engines not using excessive oil in
> the first place - correct me if I'm wrong on that. It certainly won't
> hurt for this guy to switch to 10W-30, and it may help.




10W-30 won't hurt. Won't help either.



> I hope he tries it and reports back.
>



He won't.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 28 Apr 2009, 02:53 pm
Leftie
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

Tegger wrote:
> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in
> news:aTuJl.108985$e_5.69932@newsfe03.iad:
>
>> Tegger wrote:

>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'd like to know your methodology.
>>>
>>>
>>>

>> The Civic was run on Mobil One 15W-50

>
>
>
>
> 15W-50 was not good choice. You surely suffered at least oil pump damage
> and bearing damage if not ring damage as well using that stuff.
>
>
>
>> and 5W-30 full synthetic
>> after
>> the break-in period. It used virtually no oil between changes. The
>> valves were always adjusted on schedule. After it hit about 70k miles
>> I noticed rough running; it was diagnosed as oil-fouled plugs and O2
>> sensor. It was also down most of a quart of oil for the first time
>> ever. They replaced the plugs, I replaced the sensor, and I stopped
>> using the 5W- synthetic, using either the 15W-50

>
>
>
> Why on earth would you use that viscosity? Your Honda's oil pump was not
> designed for it, and your Owner's Manual certainly does not call for it.
>
> No wonder you're burning oil; you broke your engine.
>
>
>
>> or a different brand
>> of 10W-30 full synthetic. The car stopped burning oil and ten years
>> later just suffered only a little leakdown if it sat for more than a
>> few days. It was still fine when I sold it after 23 years and 146k
>> miles. When I tried the same thing with an AMC six that was using oil,
>> the oil consumption also stopped.

>
>
>
> That was an older design of engine. Older-design engines often benefited
> from oil of higher viscosities once the miles piled up.
>
>
>
>> To sum up, we've had opposite experiences with changing
>> viscosities.
>> I suspect that yours was due to the engines not using excessive oil in
>> the first place - correct me if I'm wrong on that. It certainly won't
>> hurt for this guy to switch to 10W-30, and it may help.

>
>
>
> 10W-30 won't hurt. Won't help either.
>
>
>
>> I hope he tries it and reports back.
>>

>
>
> He won't.
>
>


Did you even read what I wrote? The engine that I "broke" stopped
burning oil and was still running strong on the original internals over
a decade after this incident. I hope that you do a better job of reading
work-related documents.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 28 Apr 2009, 05:41 pm
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in news:qiIJl.51827$gC1.50740@newsfe19.iad:

>> Leftie <No@Thanks.net> wrote in
>> news:aTuJl.108985$e_5.69932@newsfe03.iad:


>>
>>
>>
>>> and 5W-30 full synthetic after
>>> the break-in period. It used virtually no oil between changes. The
>>> valves were always adjusted on schedule. After it hit about 70k
>>> miles I noticed rough running; it was diagnosed as oil-fouled plugs
>>> and O2 sensor. It was also down most of a quart of oil for the first
>>> time ever. They replaced the plugs, I replaced the sensor, and I
>>> stopped using the 5W- synthetic, using either the 15W-50
>>> or a different brand of 10W-30 full synthetic. The car stopped
>>> burning oil and ten years later just suffered only a little leakdown
>>> if it sat for more than a few days. It was still fine when I sold it
>>> after 23 years and 146k miles.

>>
>>

>
> Did you even read what I wrote?




Of course.



> The engine that I "broke" stopped
> burning oil and was still running strong on the original internals
> over a decade after this incident.




I wasn't there of course, so I have to accept your reporting as accurate,
but I stand by my guess as to internal engine damage.

Nobody should EVER do what you did with your car. 15W-50 is a /very/ bad
choice for any modern engine.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 28 Apr 2009, 08:21 pm
Greg Campbell
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2001 Prelude has always burned oil--dealer says new engine needed!!??

Tegger wrote:

> 15W-50 was not good choice. You surely suffered at least oil pump damage
> and bearing damage if not ring damage as well using that stuff.


Why on earth do you say that? What supposed mechanism will cause oil
pump damage? I can almost believe the rings suffering due to decreased
oil flow, but have a hard time believing that a 50wt oil (a
comparatively wimpy 50wt at that.) will cause such severe starvation as
to 'break' the them. M1's 15w-50 has tons of zinc, moly, and boron
based anti-wear additives. Even IF oil delivery to the rings was
reduced (by how much, 20~30%?) I don't think it could kill the engine in
such a short time. I can't see any mechanism by which the plain crank
bearings would be damaged.

Europeans and those crazy Aussies routinely run xW-40 and xW-50wt oils
in the very same engines that are spec'd for 10W30 in North America.

Consider what happens every time you start your car on a cold morning.
Until the engine is up to operating temp, the cold oil circulating and
lubricating is vastly thicker than any hot 50wt. If thick-ish oil
caused bearing damage, we'd all destroy our cars in short order.

IMO.

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