Honda Car Forum

"Tacy" <tacyhunter@dontspamthesofthome.net> wrote in message
news:R4K_b.339$Pc.60@okepread02...
> Sean D wrote:
>
> > You have to keep in mind that there are a lot of morons on the road and
more
> > often than not, when you see someone spinning their tires, it's because
> > they're using worn all-seasons. Get a good set of winter tires on all 4
> > tires and you'll be fine.
>
> How many kilometres or miles could I expect from a set of winter tyres?
> What sort of wheels would I want for the winter?
>
> --
> -- Tacy
>

Well winter tires are much softer than normal all-seasons so they don't last
as long. I had a set of Michelin Artic Alpins that lasted 3 winters or
about 40,000 km, give or take. I assume you when you ask about wheels, you
mean rims. This is only a concern if you have alloy rims, since salt with
corrode them and they are very expensive. If you're just running the
regular steel rims, then you can choose to reuse the same rims and pay to
have the tires mounted and balanced at each change (about $10 each) or you
could spring to buy 4 new steel rims to make the swap easier and a bit
cheaper. Personally, I stick with one set of rims and pay to have the tires
mounted and rebalanced. Basically, considering the cost of the steel rims,
it would take over 5 years for them to pay for themselves so to me, it's not
worth it.

"Tacy" <tacyhunter@dontspamthesofthome.net> wrote in message
news:77K_b.340$Pc.8@okepread02...
> Sean D wrote:
>
> > CR-Vs are actually 2 wheel drive with a real-time 4 wheel drive system.
> > This means that most of the time, it's in 2 wheel drive mode (front
wheel
> > drive actually) but it will seemlessly switch to 4 wheel drive if the
front
> > tires slip. Once the front tires grip again, then it's back to 2 wheel
> > drive. This system is meant to give the best of both worlds. The
traction
> > of 4 wheel drive when you need it, and the fuel economy of 2 wheel drive
> > when 4 wheel isn't needed.
>
> Some people tell me that the CR-V is a Civic frame (pardon my
> terminology if I'm incorrect) with a truck body on top, so it drives a
> lot like a car. Is this true?
>
> --
> -- Tacy
>

Sort of. This is true for the older, smaller CR-V. The newer ones, I've
heard, are based on the Accord frame. Either though, they do handle like a
car, which a big plus to many people who don't like the bulky feel of an
SUV. The key though, is not to get cocky and drive it as if actually were a
car, or you could roll it. By no means is the CR-V dangerous though, it's
just common sense. Don't take a corner at 80 km/h and you'll be fine.

I think that the way a car handles over snow and ice is dependant on a lot
of factors, including the wieght of the car, and the way that wieght is
distributed over the car. Also the width of the car, in my opinion all have
an effect on how a car drives. If you don't have four wheel drive, front
wheel is the next best for control (better than rear wheel in snow and ice)

I currently own a 04 civic, and before that had a toyota corolla and tercel.
I live in edmonton, alberta, so we have a lot of snow here too. In my
opinion the Civic handles awsome.... better than my corolla (which was a
bigger car) and my tercel put together.... I don't know how my civic would
compare to a 4 wheel drive, but in my opinion it handles awsome... and the
abs works great on ice... could not imagine a better handling car than the
civic...


"Tacy" <tacyhunter@dontspamthesofthome.net> wrote in message
news:l1b_b.13285$lQ2.1643@okepread02...
> I live in Elliot Lake, Ontario (Canada) where there is snow on the
> ground upwards of fourth months a year. I am looking to buy an
> economical car to take me to a college about 16 kilmetres from my home.
> My personal budget allows only upwards of $10,000 Canadian (about $7,500
> American currently), so a relatively new Honda seems to be a good choice
> considering what I've heard and read of Honda's reliability.
>
> However, my family cars have always been four wheel drive or all
> wheel drive. I am not very familiar with these systems, but the general
> idea I have gathered is that they are ideally suited for the winter
> weather conditions here since they are less likely to slip or lose
control.
>
> It was recommended to me that I purchase a Civic or Accord as they
> are small, fuel-efficient, and reliable cars for students. I don't know
> how they will handle in the snow, slush, and ice I expect to be driving
> in because they are front wheel drive.
>
> Does anyone have any first-hand experience or a technical explanation
> of how driving a Honda will be different from a four or all wheel drive
> vehicle during the winter?
>
> - Tacy
>

"Tacy" <tacyhunter@dontspamthesofthome.net> wrote in message
news:77K_b.340$Pc.8@okepread02...
> Sean D wrote:
>
> > CR-Vs are actually 2 wheel drive with a real-time 4 wheel drive system.
> > This means that most of the time, it's in 2 wheel drive mode (front
wheel
> > drive actually) but it will seemlessly switch to 4 wheel drive if the
front
> > tires slip. Once the front tires grip again, then it's back to 2 wheel
> > drive. This system is meant to give the best of both worlds. The
traction
> > of 4 wheel drive when you need it, and the fuel economy of 2 wheel drive
> > when 4 wheel isn't needed.
>
> Some people tell me that the CR-V is a Civic frame (pardon my
> terminology if I'm incorrect) with a truck body on top, so it drives a
> lot like a car. Is this true?
\
The term is "platform."

Solution by tire is nice and unnecessary. Some tires,
especially low profile performance tires are terrible
performance in anything but dry road. Standard radials do
just fine. Avoid the hyped performance tire that even make a
car inferior in rain. Demonstrated are characteristics that
make or break a snow bound driver.

Example: in a snow storm of 24 inches, I was maintaining 10
MPH when I came across a car stuck. They had been there since
2 PM and never saw a snow plow for 7 hours. So how did I get
my Honda atop 24 inches? First, to get started, knocked down
a snow ramp of about 6 feet so the Honda could climb up - so
that snow did not get plowed up over bumper. Second, I moved
a 20 pound tool box into front passenger seat to increase
weight ratio. No one really needs four wheel drive. That's
hype for those who never learned to drive in snow (and who
foolishly think 4 wheel drives stop better - they stop
worse). Key is to have at least 60% body weight on drive
wheels. Insignificant more is gained by 70, 80, or 90%. This
balance for traction is important.

Now this Honda with regular snow tires is climbing up on the
snow. Snow is falling so fast that I had to maintain about 10
MPH so that snow did not overwhelm windshield wipers. During
white outs, on two occasions, I discovered I had driven
completely onto grass medium and back onto highway - and still
the Accord would not be stopped.

More facts. The automatic transmission - not tires - is
your greater enemy. As soon as one wheel starts to spin, than
transmission tries to make that wheel spin faster. This
torque converter function is bad for getting started. If
using an automatic transmission, then war must be waged
against the torque converter - part of automatic
transmission. This same technique is practiced all summer
when parking - without ever touching brake until car is where
it must stop.

Tap accelerator quick enough that car starts to move but so
that torque converter cannot grab and spin a wheel. Tap and
release. Most have no clue and hold accelerator down - and
get stuck - spin that wheel. That tap and release to let idle
should be enough for car to start moving. Only then gently
apply a touch of gas (GM owners with the electronic idle will
find that screwy low performance and balky engine makes this
difficult). Because Hondas have superior 70 Hp/liter engines,
then car can also be gently accelerated so as to not spin a
tire, dig a hole, and get struck again.

Even better is a stick. Gently release clutch without
touching accelerator. If one cannot due that, especially in a
Honda, then one has not yet learned to fully drive stick.
(Many will argue this cannot be done even after I did it
before them - never touch accelerator until clutch is
released.) Again, trick is to not spin a tire - dig a hole.
Technique that let Honda so easily climbed up onto 20" with
only regular radial tires.

Another trick in snow. If stuck, never spin a tire and dig
a hole. Put car in forward. Let idle move car 1/4 inch - no
more. Then go into reverse or neutral (or press clutch). Let
car roll back 3/8 inch. These numbers are not exaggerations.
Then go forward again maybe 7/16th inches. Do this with
rhythm to slowly build a ramp. However if tire spins just
once, then spinning wheel digs a hole in the ramp. Start
process all over again. Simple patience means shoveling is
rarely required for a Honda. After about the 50th bounce,
then maybe car is ready to pop out. Most are so impatient
when they first do this as to foolishly try to pop out in 3 or
6 bounces. Then they dig a hole. Patience. A Honda, again
due to its smooth acceleration characteristics, makes building
a ramp easy. Drive up an over snow.

Now for cars that make driving in snow difficult - like
Pontiacs. Or drivers that ride the brake fully into a parking
space - who therefore never learn how to drive in snow. In
bumper to bumper traffic, tried to slowly move a new 1996
Pontiac. Pressed on accelerator. No response. Pressed a
little more. No response. Pressed more. Car took off. I
had to quickly hit brake so as to not hit car in front. This
"wide track" response is probably intentional to mask low
speed engine instability - bouncing or surging as if one
cylinder does not fire. Furthermore, this type of response
makes the Pontiac driver 'feel' he has a powerful engine -
Pontiac widetrack. Pontiacs require two extra cylinders
compare to Honda to provide same HP because Pontiacs are 52 Hp
per liter, low performance engines that did not even permit
gentle acceleration. Therefore Pontiac cannot gently
accelerate out of snow. Electronic throttle control and
automatic transmission doing everything to spin a wheel, dig a
hole, get car stuck deeper.

Learn how to drive in snow by parking. Give engine a quick
touch on gas petal to get car moving and let it idle fully
into parking space - no foot on gas petal. Brake only when
car is ready to stop. That same technique necessary to drive
a car out of snow. But even better, don't waste money on an
automatic. The five speed stick makes winter / snow driving
so much easier. So easy that on two occasions, I used by
Accord to plow out SUVs with automatics.

Another important point while on snowy conditions. Better
cars never use red rear turn signals. Red does not penetrate
snow, fog, or heavy rain. Last thing you want in inclement
weather are red rear turn signals. Orange (amber) emergency
flashers will cut through bad conditions - so that excessive
speed drivers will see you before they hit you. If your
emergency flashers are red, then find someplace to hide. Only
crap cars use red rear flashers - car designed by 'colors must
match' fools or cost controllers. For inclement weather,
those rear turn signals, emergency flasher MUST be orange.

Tacy wrote:
> Thank you; I apparently did mean rims. I'm not very familiar with
> alloy rims versus steel, but as I understand it steel rims tend to be
> ugly with the hubcaps or wheel covers over them.
>
> How much did your Michelin Arctic Alpines cost? How long does it
> take for the tyres to be swapped from one wheel to another?

Sean D wrote:

> Well winter tires are much softer than normal all-seasons so they don't last
> as long. I had a set of Michelin Artic Alpins that lasted 3 winters or
> about 40,000 km, give or take. I assume you when you ask about wheels, you
> mean rims. This is only a concern if you have alloy rims, since salt with
> corrode them and they are very expensive. If you're just running the
> regular steel rims, then you can choose to reuse the same rims and pay to
> have the tires mounted and balanced at each change (about $10 each) or you
> could spring to buy 4 new steel rims to make the swap easier and a bit
> cheaper. Personally, I stick with one set of rims and pay to have the tires
> mounted and rebalanced. Basically, considering the cost of the steel rims,
> it would take over 5 years for them to pay for themselves so to me, it's not
> worth it.

Thank you; I apparently did mean rims. I'm not very familiar with
alloy rims versus steel, but as I understand it steel rims tend to be
ugly with the hubcaps or wheel covers over them.

How much did your Michelin Arctic Alpines cost? How long does it take
for the tyres to be swapped from one wheel to another?

--
-- Tacy

Ron wrote:

> I think that the way a car handles over snow and ice is dependant on a lot
> of factors, including the wieght of the car, and the way that wieght is
> distributed over the car. Also the width of the car, in my opinion all have
> an effect on how a car drives. If you don't have four wheel drive, front
> wheel is the next best for control (better than rear wheel in snow and ice)
>
> I currently own a 04 civic, and before that had a toyota corolla and tercel.
> I live in edmonton, alberta, so we have a lot of snow here too. In my
> opinion the Civic handles awsome.... better than my corolla (which was a
> bigger car) and my tercel put together.... I don't know how my civic would
> compare to a 4 wheel drive, but in my opinion it handles awsome... and the
> abs works great on ice... could not imagine a better handling car than the
> civic...

What model year and trim is your Civic? As best I can tell the Civics
change style every two years. Are they all roughly the same weight and size?

--
-- Tacy

Forest wrote:

> No. just put Bridgestone Blizzaks on all 4 corners, you'll be fine.

Are Blizzaks considered the best snow tyre?

--
-- Tacy

Tacy wrote:

> Sean D wrote:
>
>> Well winter tires are much softer than normal all-seasons so they
>> don't last
>> as long. I had a set of Michelin Artic Alpins that lasted 3 winters or
>> about 40,000 km, give or take. I assume you when you ask about
>> wheels, you
>> mean rims. This is only a concern if you have alloy rims, since salt
>> with
>> corrode them and they are very expensive. If you're just running the
>> regular steel rims, then you can choose to reuse the same rims and pay to
>> have the tires mounted and balanced at each change (about $10 each) or
>> you
>> could spring to buy 4 new steel rims to make the swap easier and a bit
>> cheaper. Personally, I stick with one set of rims and pay to have the
>> tires
>> mounted and rebalanced. Basically, considering the cost of the steel
>> rims,
>> it would take over 5 years for them to pay for themselves so to me,
>> it's not
>> worth it.
>
>
> Thank you; I apparently did mean rims. I'm not very familiar with
> alloy rims versus steel, but as I understand it steel rims tend to be
> ugly with the hubcaps or wheel covers over them.
>
> How much did your Michelin Arctic Alpines cost? How long does it take
> for the tyres to be swapped from one wheel to another?
>
Hi,
Best is having two sets of rim/tire, one for summer on original
rims(alloy), one for winter one on steel rims. I value safety over
cosmetics. steel rim looks ugly but who cares?
That's what I do with my two kids' cars. I replace them when season
changes myself. I have compressor and air impact tools in my work shop.
Tony

Tacy wrote:

> Forest wrote:
>
>> No. just put Bridgestone Blizzaks on all 4 corners, you'll be fine.
>
>
> Are Blizzaks considered the best snow tyre?
>
Hi,
Blizzak wears way too fast. Nokian is probably better than Artic Alpen.
My kids' winter tires are Artic Alpen. What kind of winter driving?
Which region? I am in Alberta.
Tony