Honda Car Forum

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:44:53 -0700, Greg Campbell <nospam@null.net>
wrote:
>I can't see how any sort of dissolved free nitrogen would do squat for
>cleaning. I'd think that the air would provide plenty...
>
>Shell's site is full of typical idiot-level Dancing Bologna and says
>nothing of consequence.
>
>Amines have long been used in the better anti-deposit additives.
>Although a very complex family of compounds, all amines use a nitrogen
>atom as a foundation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amines This is
>hardly bleeding edge tech...
>
>I suspect nothing is new, except for the dumb ad campaign. (OK, maybe
>they increased the amount of 'stuff' in their mix by 2%...)
>
>-Humbug!

We discussed this extensively on an RV newsgroup and came to pretty
much the same conclusions. Nitrogen gas is going to do nothing and the
Shell website about there new gasoline is almost completely free of
content.

Several knowledgeable posters suggested it was probably just an
additive -- probably a nitrogen compound such as nitrotoluene or
nitrobenzene. These can act as powerful solvents and also would tend
to raise the octane number.



Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher

On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:38:23 -0500, Elliot Richmond
<xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:44:53 -0700, Greg Campbell <nospam@null.net>
>wrote:
>>I can't see how any sort of dissolved free nitrogen would do squat for
>>cleaning. I'd think that the air would provide plenty...
>>
>>Shell's site is full of typical idiot-level Dancing Bologna and says
>>nothing of consequence.
>>
>>Amines have long been used in the better anti-deposit additives.
>>Although a very complex family of compounds, all amines use a nitrogen
>>atom as a foundation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amines This is
>>hardly bleeding edge tech...
>>
>>I suspect nothing is new, except for the dumb ad campaign. (OK, maybe
>>they increased the amount of 'stuff' in their mix by 2%...)
>>
>>-Humbug!
>
>We discussed this extensively on an RV newsgroup and came to pretty
>much the same conclusions. Nitrogen gas is going to do nothing and the
>Shell website about there new gasoline is almost completely free of
>content.
>
>Several knowledgeable posters suggested it was probably just an
>additive -- probably a nitrogen compound such as nitrotoluene or
>nitrobenzene. These can act as powerful solvents and also would tend
>to raise the octane number.
>
>
>
>Elliot Richmond
>Itinerant astronomy teacher


Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form? The
facts are you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, Shell
does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their
claim but that does not make their claim invalid. Until you have some
facts to share, why not keep quiet?

Edward W. Thompson wrote:
> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:38:23 -0500, Elliot Richmond
> <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:44:53 -0700, Greg Campbell <nospam@null.net>
>> wrote:
>>> I can't see how any sort of dissolved free nitrogen would do squat for
>>> cleaning. I'd think that the air would provide plenty...
>>>
>>> Shell's site is full of typical idiot-level Dancing Bologna and says
>>> nothing of consequence.
>>>
>>> Amines have long been used in the better anti-deposit additives.
>>> Although a very complex family of compounds, all amines use a nitrogen
>>> atom as a foundation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amines This is
>>> hardly bleeding edge tech...
>>>
>>> I suspect nothing is new, except for the dumb ad campaign. (OK, maybe
>>> they increased the amount of 'stuff' in their mix by 2%...)
>>>
>>> -Humbug!
>> We discussed this extensively on an RV newsgroup and came to pretty
>> much the same conclusions. Nitrogen gas is going to do nothing and the
>> Shell website about there new gasoline is almost completely free of
>> content.
>>
>> Several knowledgeable posters suggested it was probably just an
>> additive -- probably a nitrogen compound such as nitrotoluene or
>> nitrobenzene. These can act as powerful solvents and also would tend
>> to raise the octane number.
>>
>>
>>
>> Elliot Richmond
>> Itinerant astronomy teacher
>
>
> Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form? The
> facts are you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, Shell
> does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their
> claim but that does not make their claim invalid. Until you have some
> facts to share, why not keep quiet?


usenet has no barriers to entry dude. anybody can just show up and
evidence their ignorance, non-analytical thinking and herd-like fear of
their unknown.

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:34:57 -0700, jim beam wrote:

> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:38:23 -0500, Elliot Richmond
>> <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:44:53 -0700, Greg Campbell <nospam@null.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>> I can't see how any sort of dissolved free nitrogen would do squat
>>>> for cleaning. I'd think that the air would provide plenty...
>>>>
>>>> Shell's site is full of typical idiot-level Dancing Bologna and says
>>>> nothing of consequence.
>>>>
>>>> Amines have long been used in the better anti-deposit additives.
>>>> Although a very complex family of compounds, all amines use a
>>>> nitrogen atom as a foundation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amines
>>>> This is hardly bleeding edge tech...
>>>>
>>>> I suspect nothing is new, except for the dumb ad campaign. (OK,
>>>> maybe they increased the amount of 'stuff' in their mix by 2%...)
>>>>
>>>> -Humbug!
>>> We discussed this extensively on an RV newsgroup and came to pretty
>>> much the same conclusions. Nitrogen gas is going to do nothing and the
>>> Shell website about there new gasoline is almost completely free of
>>> content.
>>>
>>> Several knowledgeable posters suggested it was probably just an
>>> additive -- probably a nitrogen compound such as nitrotoluene or
>>> nitrobenzene. These can act as powerful solvents and also would tend
>>> to raise the octane number.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Elliot Richmond
>>> Itinerant astronomy teacher
>>
>>
>> Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form? The
>> facts are you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, Shell
>> does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their
>> claim but that does not make their claim invalid. Until you have some
>> facts to share, why not keep quiet?
>
>
> usenet has no barriers to entry dude. anybody can just show up and
> evidence their ignorance, non-analytical thinking and herd-like fear of
> their unknown.

Very true. Just look at nearly any of the posts made by 'jim beam' to
confirm this.


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

Dan C wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:34:57 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 14:38:23 -0500, Elliot Richmond
>>> <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sun, 15 Mar 2009 11:44:53 -0700, Greg Campbell <nospam@null.net>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I can't see how any sort of dissolved free nitrogen would do squat
>>>>> for cleaning. I'd think that the air would provide plenty...
>>>>>
>>>>> Shell's site is full of typical idiot-level Dancing Bologna and says
>>>>> nothing of consequence.
>>>>>
>>>>> Amines have long been used in the better anti-deposit additives.
>>>>> Although a very complex family of compounds, all amines use a
>>>>> nitrogen atom as a foundation. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amines
>>>>> This is hardly bleeding edge tech...
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect nothing is new, except for the dumb ad campaign. (OK,
>>>>> maybe they increased the amount of 'stuff' in their mix by 2%...)
>>>>>
>>>>> -Humbug!
>>>> We discussed this extensively on an RV newsgroup and came to pretty
>>>> much the same conclusions. Nitrogen gas is going to do nothing and the
>>>> Shell website about there new gasoline is almost completely free of
>>>> content.
>>>>
>>>> Several knowledgeable posters suggested it was probably just an
>>>> additive -- probably a nitrogen compound such as nitrotoluene or
>>>> nitrobenzene. These can act as powerful solvents and also would tend
>>>> to raise the octane number.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Elliot Richmond
>>>> Itinerant astronomy teacher
>>>
>>> Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form? The
>>> facts are you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, Shell
>>> does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their
>>> claim but that does not make their claim invalid. Until you have some
>>> facts to share, why not keep quiet?
>>
>> usenet has no barriers to entry dude. anybody can just show up and
>> evidence their ignorance, non-analytical thinking and herd-like fear of
>> their unknown.
>
> Very true. Just look at nearly any of the posts made by 'jim beam' to
> confirm this.
>
>

**** you, hypocrite. you never contribute a goddamned thing except "buy
a new ****ing car asshole".

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:08:48 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>>> usenet has no barriers to entry dude. anybody can just show up and
>>> evidence their ignorance, non-analytical thinking and herd-like fear
>>> of their unknown.

>> Very true. Just look at nearly any of the posts made by 'jim beam' to
>> confirm this.

> **** you, hypocrite. you never contribute a goddamned thing except "buy
> a new ****ing car asshole".

"Your Honor, the defense rests."


--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".
The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org
Ahhhhhhh!: http://brandybuck.site40.net/pics/relieve.jpg

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:21:35 +0000, Edward W. Thompson
<thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote:


>Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form?

When one says "nitrogen." that's what one means. Nitrogen is an
element. In gaseous form and standard temperature and pressure, it is
a molecule formed of two nitrogen atoms joined by a double covalent
bond. In this form it is relatively unreactive. The atmosphere is
about 78% nitrogen.

>The
>facts are you have no idea what you are talking about.

I have some idea of what I am talking about.

>Sure, Shell
>does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their
>claim but that does not make their claim invalid.

They did not say nitrogen based additive, they said "nitrogen
enriched."

Here is a tinyurl link to their page supposed "explaining" this new
gasoline.

http://tinyurl.com/6p5gn7

I could not find any use of the words "nitrogen based additive" or
"nitrogen compound" or "nitrogenated hydrocarbon."

>Until you have some
>facts to share, why not keep quiet?

My guess was clearly speculation. Having facts and keeping quiet have
never been standard operating procedure for Usenet. It certainly has
not hindered anybody posting to this group in the several years I have
been reading it, and occasionally contributing.

However, I stand by my guess of nitrobenzene or something similar.
Nitrobenzene is an effective solvent, it is relatively inexpensive, it
mixes with water and gasoline, it would raise the octane number, and
is not known to be carcinogenic.



Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher

Edward W. Thompson wrote:

> Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form? The
> facts are you have no idea what you are talking about. Sure, Shell
> does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their
> claim but that does not make their claim invalid. Until you have some
> facts to share, why not keep quiet?

WTF??

Until you can 'contribute' without taking shots at people, why don't YOU
STFU?

You sound an awful lot like our resident Rabid Net Kook, JB. Are you
one of his sock puppets?

"Elliot Richmond" <xmrichmond@xaustin.xrr.xcom> wrote in message
news:cvrsr4d2f5gjrfjktndc47e7g0kug8461v@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:21:35 +0000, Edward W. Thompson
> <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Why do you think 'nitrogen' means nitrogen in a gaseous form?
>
> When one says "nitrogen." that's what one means. Nitrogen is an
> element. In gaseous form and standard temperature and pressure, it is
> a molecule formed of two nitrogen atoms joined by a double covalent
> bond. In this form it is relatively unreactive. The atmosphere is
> about 78% nitrogen.
>
>>The
>>facts are you have no idea what you are talking about.
>
> I have some idea of what I am talking about.
>
>>Sure, Shell
>>does not reveal what nitrogen based additive is the basis of their
>>claim but that does not make their claim invalid.
>
> They did not say nitrogen based additive, they said "nitrogen
> enriched."
>
> Here is a tinyurl link to their page supposed "explaining" this new
> gasoline.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/6p5gn7
>
> I could not find any use of the words "nitrogen based additive" or
> "nitrogen compound" or "nitrogenated hydrocarbon."
>
The Houston Chronicle quotes Shell this way:

"Nitrogen is a key element of the active cleaning molecule in the new fuel,
making it significantly more stable at higher temperatures common in modern
engines, such as direct fuel-injection gasoline engines. The increased
stability ensures that the molecule can work under much tougher engine
conditions by resisting thermal breakdown better than conventional cleaning
additives."

To me, this says the additive they're talking about CONTAINS nitrogen, not
that it IS nitrogen.

Dan C wrote:
> On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 06:08:48 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>>>> usenet has no barriers to entry dude. anybody can just show up and
>>>> evidence their ignorance, non-analytical thinking and herd-like fear
>>>> of their unknown.
>
>>> Very true. Just look at nearly any of the posts made by 'jim beam' to
>>> confirm this.
>
>> **** you, hypocrite. you never contribute a goddamned thing except "buy
>> a new ****ing car asshole".
>
> "Your Honor, the defense rests."

as does your ability to contribute constructively. just look at your sig.