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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12 Feb 2004, 12:46 pm
Steve Lee
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Default Driving without adequate ATF.

Soon after I had my last scheduled service (about 1,900miles/3,000KM),
which had the ATF replaced on my 2003 Pilot, I noticed a slight change
in the way the transmission was behaving and the way the gears were
engaging. It was nothing to be alarmed about, just a very slight
hesitation(?) here and there, only on gentle acceleration when the RPM
was below 2K and the gears were changing say from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to
4th.

I figured it'd go away, but it never did, so I checked the ATF level
today and it was slightly below the LOW mark on the dipstick. I would
say about just below the halfway mark between the tip of the stick and
the LOW mark.

So, I took it to my servicing dealer and they topped up the ATF for
me. The fluid looked just fine and there was no burning smell to it.
The transmission seems to be functioning normally now; it seems to
have gone back to the way it was before the last schedule service.

I don't think it leaked because I didn't see any signs of leaks on my
garage floor at all. I'm thinking the technician just never put
enough ATF during the service in the first place.

However, I'm still concerned a bit about whether there could've been
any damage at all or that the transmission could've been subjected to
abnormally high stress because of the low ATF level and the fact that
I've been driving around like that for close to 1,900miles/3,000KM,
which could potentially turn into a big problem down the road.

As well, right after the service, we had a very nasty cold spell which
had the temperatures drop down to -31F/-35C for well over a week, I
believe, and worries me about what inadequate level of lubrication
could've done to the transmission.

Would you guys worry at all if something like this happened? Should I
even bother to request to the service advisor to make a note of this
in my service record or am I just worrying about nothing? Thanks.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12 Feb 2004, 02:25 pm
Pankoski
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

Worrying about it won't help the transmission but could lead to personal
health problems. I would make the service organization note their potential
mistake just in case of future problems. The probability of any problems
occuring is low.
"Steve Lee" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:2ahn20t6ju04bq95622r0ld56kg9ljpbpl@4ax.com...
> Soon after I had my last scheduled service (about 1,900miles/3,000KM),
> which had the ATF replaced on my 2003 Pilot, I noticed a slight change
> in the way the transmission was behaving and the way the gears were
> engaging. It was nothing to be alarmed about, just a very slight
> hesitation(?) here and there, only on gentle acceleration when the RPM
> was below 2K and the gears were changing say from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to
> 4th.
>
> I figured it'd go away, but it never did, so I checked the ATF level
> today and it was slightly below the LOW mark on the dipstick. I would
> say about just below the halfway mark between the tip of the stick and
> the LOW mark.
>
> So, I took it to my servicing dealer and they topped up the ATF for
> me. The fluid looked just fine and there was no burning smell to it.
> The transmission seems to be functioning normally now; it seems to
> have gone back to the way it was before the last schedule service.
>
> I don't think it leaked because I didn't see any signs of leaks on my
> garage floor at all. I'm thinking the technician just never put
> enough ATF during the service in the first place.
>
> However, I'm still concerned a bit about whether there could've been
> any damage at all or that the transmission could've been subjected to
> abnormally high stress because of the low ATF level and the fact that
> I've been driving around like that for close to 1,900miles/3,000KM,
> which could potentially turn into a big problem down the road.
>
> As well, right after the service, we had a very nasty cold spell which
> had the temperatures drop down to -31F/-35C for well over a week, I
> believe, and worries me about what inadequate level of lubrication
> could've done to the transmission.
>
> Would you guys worry at all if something like this happened? Should I
> even bother to request to the service advisor to make a note of this
> in my service record or am I just worrying about nothing? Thanks.



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12 Feb 2004, 02:38 pm
'Curly Q. Links'
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

Steve Lee wrote:
>
> Soon after I had my last scheduled service (about 1,900miles/3,000KM),
> which had the ATF replaced on my 2003 Pilot, I noticed a slight change
> in the way the transmission was behaving and the way the gears were
> engaging. It was nothing to be alarmed about, just a very slight
> hesitation(?) here and there, only on gentle acceleration when the RPM
> was below 2K and the gears were changing say from 2nd to 3rd or 3rd to
> 4th.
>
> I figured it'd go away, but it never did, so I checked the ATF level
> today and it was slightly below the LOW mark on the dipstick. I would
> say about just below the halfway mark between the tip of the stick and
> the LOW mark.
>
> So, I took it to my servicing dealer and they topped up the ATF for
> me. The fluid looked just fine and there was no burning smell to it.
> The transmission seems to be functioning normally now; it seems to
> have gone back to the way it was before the last schedule service.
>
> I don't think it leaked because I didn't see any signs of leaks on my
> garage floor at all. I'm thinking the technician just never put
> enough ATF during the service in the first place.
>
> However, I'm still concerned a bit about whether there could've been
> any damage at all or that the transmission could've been subjected to
> abnormally high stress because of the low ATF level and the fact that
> I've been driving around like that for close to 1,900miles/3,000KM,
> which could potentially turn into a big problem down the road.
>
> As well, right after the service, we had a very nasty cold spell which
> had the temperatures drop down to -31F/-35C for well over a week, I
> believe, and worries me about what inadequate level of lubrication
> could've done to the transmission.
>
> Would you guys worry at all if something like this happened? Should I
> even bother to request to the service advisor to make a note of this
> in my service record or am I just worrying about nothing? Thanks.


++++++++++++++++

Steve,

Yes, you're worrying about nothing, but it's good to ask.

Even if you drove the SUV on an extreme climb, or almost rolled it over
on it's side, there's lots of room for error in the level. The tranny
will still pump fluid thru itself. If it was touching the stick at all,
it was plenty full enough to be safe.

After they refilled it, some air may have 'burped' out as you drove it
home. Next person who checks the level finds it down a 'bit'.

'curly'
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12 Feb 2004, 03:01 pm
dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

In rec.autos.makers.honda Pankoski <pankoski@ccrtc.com> wrote:
> Worrying about it won't help the transmission but could lead to personal
> health problems. I would make the service organization note their potential
> mistake just in case of future problems. The probability of any problems
> occuring is low.


I felt that way when JiffyLube changed the filter in my Dodge Durango
transmission incorrectly. It took two hours to get the chagne done, with
my car occupying one of the two service racks, because they drained my
fluid before they realized they didn't have my filter. Then the
independent parts house didn't have one either, although they brought
something over that wasn't right. Then they had to get authorization to
buy a dealer-only part... 2000 Dodge Durango 4WD must be rare.

Finally, it looked like they were all done. I heard the car start. I saw
the backup lights come on and go off. I instantly new something was wrong.
On fast idle after having cooled down, I didn't see the body lurch at all.
A few more backup light on/off cycles, and the engine was shut off.

A few more tries, with different people looking on. Off comes the pan for
the third time. Something about the filter was in backwards. Reassembled,
everything seemed to be okay. The "best" they could do for my troubles was
to give me 10% off the price of the service.

They insisted no damage had been done to the transmission. I pointed out
that it had been run for at least a couple of minutes with no fluid. They
insisted that it hadn't engaged, so no problem. I had them make note on
the receipt that it had been run with no fluid for five minutes.

Of course, now 50,000 miles later, if the transmission fails, they will
deny any connection... but who knows. My son has over 300,000 miles on a
Chevy automatic transmission. If mine fails at 110,000, is it inferior
quality Dodge materials, or a lack of lubrication 80,000 miles ago?

---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12 Feb 2004, 06:51 pm
Mike O'Malley
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Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

<dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com> wrote in message
news:c0gpik$r21$1@blue.rahul.net...
> In rec.autos.makers.honda Pankoski <pankoski@ccrtc.com> wrote:
> > Worrying about it won't help the transmission but could lead to personal
> > health problems. I would make the service organization note their potential
> > mistake just in case of future problems. The probability of any problems
> > occuring is low.

>
> I felt that way when JiffyLube changed the filter in my Dodge Durango
> transmission incorrectly. It took two hours to get the chagne done, with
> my car occupying one of the two service racks, because they drained my
> fluid before they realized they didn't have my filter. Then the
> independent parts house didn't have one either, although they brought
> something over that wasn't right. Then they had to get authorization to
> buy a dealer-only part... 2000 Dodge Durango 4WD must be rare.
>


<snip rest of good story>

Which is why friends don't let friends go to Jiffy Lube.

--
Mike


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12 Feb 2004, 08:55 pm
dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

In rec.autos.makers.honda Mike O'Malley <momalley81@hotmail.com> wrote:
> <snip rest of good story>


> Which is why friends don't let friends go to Jiffy Lube.


Doggone it. I've been reduced to taking vehicles to the dealer except for
those things that are simple enough for me to do, but too dirty, or require
special tools. Those I trust to the local wrench. I used to do more, but
my list of what I want to do is getting slimmer.

I really wasn't sure how to "neatly" change the fluid in a transmission
with no drain plug. I thought that JiffyLube had enough experience and
talent to deal with this particular job.


--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12 Feb 2004, 09:29 pm
'Curly Q. Links'
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com wrote:
> In rec.autos.makers.honda Mike O'Malley <momalley81@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>><snip rest of good story>

>
>
>>Which is why friends don't let friends go to Jiffy Lube.

>
>
> Doggone it. I've been reduced to taking vehicles to the dealer except for
> those things that are simple enough for me to do, but too dirty, or require
> special tools. Those I trust to the local wrench. I used to do more, but
> my list of what I want to do is getting slimmer.
>
> I really wasn't sure how to "neatly" change the fluid in a transmission
> with no drain plug. I thought that JiffyLube had enough experience and
> talent to deal with this particular job.
>

=============

Isn't Jiffy Lube the equivalent to Radio Shack?

"You've got Questions, We've got Acne"

'Curly'

===============

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 13 Feb 2004, 10:09 am
Steve
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com wrote:

> Then they had to get authorization to
> buy a dealer-only part... 2000 Dodge Durango 4WD must be rare.


What engine? 4.7L? If its a 4.7L then it might have been remotely
possible that they were telling the truth as that is a "new" (well, 5
years old NOW) transmission and parts might not have started showing up
on Jiffy Scroob's shelves yet. But if its a 5.2 or 5.9, then it takes
exactly the same filter that ALL Chrysler rear-drive transmissions have
used since 1966. The thing's so darn common that it normally comes in a
box with 2 or 3 different gaskets to fit the different oil pans on the
transmissions it has been used in! Should be common as dirt.

Sounds like a completely incompetent shop to me. That said, I can't
imagine any real damage done. The clutch plates and bands are all
saturated with fluid even when you drain the fluid, and the convertor
remains half full.Ever tried to wipe all the transmission fluid off a
metal part? Its hard to do DELIBERATELY, and the plates have absorbent
friction materials on them to boot. On top of that, they would have
refilled the transmission even if the filter was on wrong (can't imagine
how to do that either, there's pretty much only one way it fits),
meaning that the case itself was full of standing oil and the clutches
and band drums were "dipping" in fluid as the engine rotated them. And
on top of that, Chrysler rear-drive transmissions are among the toughest
made... forget it and enjoy the car.





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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 13 Feb 2004, 03:34 pm
dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

In rec.autos.makers.honda Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
> dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com wrote:


>> Then they had to get authorization to
>> buy a dealer-only part... 2000 Dodge Durango 4WD must be rare.


> What engine? 4.7L? If its a 4.7L then it might have been remotely
> possible that they were telling the truth as that is a "new" (well, 5


2000 was the first year for the 4.7. But the tranny job was in 2002 or
2003... I would think there would have been some demand by then. The
recommendation is every 30,000 miles. I had a second one done recently by
the local tire shop, and they couldn't locate the filter either. They
wound up changing the fluid twice because they had already drained before
they found out they didn't have the filter...

Odd way to work. I always make sure I have the parts before I start.
I also take the filler plug out before the drain plug, ever since my 1967
Datsun Roadster was shipped with an iron plug in an aluminum case... The
dealer puts the fluid in through the backup light switch, because the fill
plug is impossible to remove.

> made... forget it and enjoy the car.


I had almost forgotten until this second go 'round. I almost bough the
filter at a Dodge dealer in the big city before I took it in to the local
shop, expecting that they would have trouble. Next time, I will.

--
---
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley (Lake County) CA USA 38.8-122.5
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 14 Feb 2004, 12:09 am
Timothy J. Lee
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Driving without adequate ATF.

In article <c0jftg$47o$2@blue.rahul.net>,
<dold@DrivingXwi.usenet.us.com> wrote:
>2000 was the first year for the 4.7. But the tranny job was in 2002 or
>2003... I would think there would have been some demand by then. The
>recommendation is every 30,000 miles.


Wouldn't that mean that 2000 model year trucks reaching 30000
miles in 2002 are among the first ones needing that service?

>I had a second one done recently by
>the local tire shop, and they couldn't locate the filter either.


Why not take the Dodge truck to a Chrysler / Dodge specialist
mechanic (dealer or otherwise, depending on which one locally
is the best)?

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Timothy J. Lee
Unsolicited bulk or commercial email is not welcome.
No warranty of any kind is provided with this message.
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