Honda Car Forum

Okay....need some real Honda experts to work on this one!

During a severe cold spell here in upstate NY (-20) our Honda would not
start. It would turn over, but just wouldn't catch.

Last Sunday, during a warm spell (yes it broke 32), I was finally able to
get the car started, but it took me a long, long time. When it finally
started, the car seemed to run very poorly. Thinking that this was related
to trying to start it so many times, I took it for a test drive. It
continued to run poorly, particularly at idle. After it warmed up, the
Check Engine light came on.

I took the car home and jumped the blue connector to get the engine
code......code 43. This is an oxygen sensor problem and the manual says
that it is the oxygen sensor if the car runs well and a fuel delivery
problem if the car runs poorly. Therefore, seems to be a fuel delivery
issue.

At this point, I drive the car 3 miles to the nearest Honda dealership and
call them. After 4 days, I get a call that I have big problems. They tell
me that two cylinders show poor compression and that they found "gasoline
fumes" (I think this is what the said) in my antifreeze. They want over
$600 to replace the head gasket plus more money for anything they find wrong
when they get in there (warped head, cracked head, etc.).

So, I call my normal Honda mechanic (I did not take the car there because he
is farther away and I was not too keen on driving the car). He tells me
that in his opinion it is more likely a fuel problem. His hypothosis is
that I have a bad distributor cap that is causing a spark problem and
therefore there is excess fuel in the two cylinders that tested poorly. He
says they would show low compression if flooded with fuel. He also went on
to tell me that the people at the dealership are very young and
inexperienced. I can support this because when I called the dealership
about the engine code 43 the person told me that he was not familiar with
the check engine lights!

One other symptom I failed to mention is that the car pings during
acceleration. What do you think? Does this sound like a head gasket issue.
I will tell you that my daughter reported that the car overheated during the
holidays. However, she is very observant and pulled over and turned the car
off until it cooled down.

Any other theories?

Thanks,
Bill

WORSS wrote:
>
> Okay....need some real Honda experts to work on this one!
>
> During a severe cold spell here in upstate NY (-20) our Honda would not
> start. It would turn over, but just wouldn't catch.
>
> Last Sunday, during a warm spell (yes it broke 32), I was finally able to
> get the car started, but it took me a long, long time. When it finally
> started, the car seemed to run very poorly. Thinking that this was related
> to trying to start it so many times, I took it for a test drive. It
> continued to run poorly, particularly at idle. After it warmed up, the
> Check Engine light came on.
>
> I took the car home and jumped the blue connector to get the engine
> code......code 43. This is an oxygen sensor problem and the manual says
> that it is the oxygen sensor if the car runs well and a fuel delivery
> problem if the car runs poorly. Therefore, seems to be a fuel delivery
> issue.
>
> At this point, I drive the car 3 miles to the nearest Honda dealership and
> call them. After 4 days, I get a call that I have big problems. They tell
> me that two cylinders show poor compression and that they found "gasoline
> fumes" (I think this is what the said) in my antifreeze. They want over
> $600 to replace the head gasket plus more money for anything they find wrong
> when they get in there (warped head, cracked head, etc.).
>
> So, I call my normal Honda mechanic (I did not take the car there because he
> is farther away and I was not too keen on driving the car). He tells me
> that in his opinion it is more likely a fuel problem. His hypothosis is
> that I have a bad distributor cap that is causing a spark problem and
> therefore there is excess fuel in the two cylinders that tested poorly. He
> says they would show low compression if flooded with fuel. He also went on
> to tell me that the people at the dealership are very young and
> inexperienced. I can support this because when I called the dealership
> about the engine code 43 the person told me that he was not familiar with
> the check engine lights!
>
> One other symptom I failed to mention is that the car pings during
> acceleration. What do you think? Does this sound like a head gasket issue.
> I will tell you that my daughter reported that the car overheated during the
> holidays. However, she is very observant and pulled over and turned the car
> off until it cooled down.
>
> Any other theories?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
=====================

Bill,

Is this a '93, and what's the mileage?

Have you read the manual? It sounds like you have a flooding problem. If
you failed to use the prescribed method of starting in cold weather, you
could have flooded it good. Have you ever ran some fuel injector cleaner
thru it? Leaking injectors will also dilute your oil (as well as flood
your engine overnight) When it finally starts it will run badly for a
minute or two. It could also damage the head gasket if a cylinder gets
full enough of gas (gas compresses just as good as water does = zero)

If she only pulled over, but didn't remedy the problem, yes, you may
have a head gasket problem. What did she find when she checked the
coolant level? Has the coolant level changed in the past while?

Has _she_ ever read the owner's manual?

Don't bvelieve the Honda dealer too quickly.


'Curly' reply to group.

Yes, car is a 93 Accord with approximately 140K miles.

Thanks,
Bill


"'Curly Q. Links'" <motsco__@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:40107EEC.3E649A74@interbaun.com...
> WORSS wrote:
> >
> > Okay....need some real Honda experts to work on this one!
> >
> > During a severe cold spell here in upstate NY (-20) our Honda would not
> > start. It would turn over, but just wouldn't catch.
> >
> > Last Sunday, during a warm spell (yes it broke 32), I was finally able
to
> > get the car started, but it took me a long, long time. When it finally
> > started, the car seemed to run very poorly. Thinking that this was
related
> > to trying to start it so many times, I took it for a test drive. It
> > continued to run poorly, particularly at idle. After it warmed up, the
> > Check Engine light came on.
> >
> > I took the car home and jumped the blue connector to get the engine
> > code......code 43. This is an oxygen sensor problem and the manual says
> > that it is the oxygen sensor if the car runs well and a fuel delivery
> > problem if the car runs poorly. Therefore, seems to be a fuel delivery
> > issue.
> >
> > At this point, I drive the car 3 miles to the nearest Honda dealership
and
> > call them. After 4 days, I get a call that I have big problems. They
tell
> > me that two cylinders show poor compression and that they found
"gasoline
> > fumes" (I think this is what the said) in my antifreeze. They want over
> > $600 to replace the head gasket plus more money for anything they find
wrong
> > when they get in there (warped head, cracked head, etc.).
> >
> > So, I call my normal Honda mechanic (I did not take the car there
because he
> > is farther away and I was not too keen on driving the car). He tells me
> > that in his opinion it is more likely a fuel problem. His hypothosis is
> > that I have a bad distributor cap that is causing a spark problem and
> > therefore there is excess fuel in the two cylinders that tested poorly.
He
> > says they would show low compression if flooded with fuel. He also went
on
> > to tell me that the people at the dealership are very young and
> > inexperienced. I can support this because when I called the dealership
> > about the engine code 43 the person told me that he was not familiar
with
> > the check engine lights!
> >
> > One other symptom I failed to mention is that the car pings during
> > acceleration. What do you think? Does this sound like a head gasket
issue.
> > I will tell you that my daughter reported that the car overheated during
the
> > holidays. However, she is very observant and pulled over and turned the
car
> > off until it cooled down.
> >
> > Any other theories?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Bill
> =====================
>
> Bill,
>
> Is this a '93, and what's the mileage?
>
> Have you read the manual? It sounds like you have a flooding problem. If
> you failed to use the prescribed method of starting in cold weather, you
> could have flooded it good. Have you ever ran some fuel injector cleaner
> thru it? Leaking injectors will also dilute your oil (as well as flood
> your engine overnight) When it finally starts it will run badly for a
> minute or two. It could also damage the head gasket if a cylinder gets
> full enough of gas (gas compresses just as good as water does = zero)
>
> If she only pulled over, but didn't remedy the problem, yes, you may
> have a head gasket problem. What did she find when she checked the
> coolant level? Has the coolant level changed in the past while?
>
> Has _she_ ever read the owner's manual?
>
> Don't bvelieve the Honda dealer too quickly.
>
>
> 'Curly' reply to group.

"WORSS" <wrector@nospam.nycap.rr.com> wrote in message news:<990Qb.66797$Su5.17052@twister.nyroc.rr.com>. ..
> Yes, car is a 93 Accord with approximately 140K miles.
>

make them do the block test in front of you. it's a chemical test
that checks for hydrocarbons in the coolant, i use it all the time. or
have them do a cylinder leakdown test, that'll show you where exactly
the compression problem lies.
Chip

Chip,

They claim to have done this test and report that "there is air coming
through the intake and through the radiator". They also claim to have
performed a block test and claim there is "exhaust gas evident in the
cooling system". They "suspect" a blown head gastket but "cannot verify
unless the cylinder head is removed".

Thanks,
Bill


"Chip Stein" <chip@chipanddebby.com> wrote in message
news:5ddcea74.0401231813.7cdceeed@posting.google.c om...
> "WORSS" <wrector@nospam.nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:<990Qb.66797$Su5.17052@twister.nyroc.rr.com>. ..
> > Yes, car is a 93 Accord with approximately 140K miles.
> >
>
> make them do the block test in front of you. it's a chemical test
> that checks for hydrocarbons in the coolant, i use it all the time. or
> have them do a cylinder leakdown test, that'll show you where exactly
> the compression problem lies.
> Chip

In article <CTZPb.66665$Su5.63333@twister.nyroc.rr.com>, "WORSS"
<wrector@nospam.nycap.rr.com> wrote:

> Okay....need some real Honda experts to work on this one!
>
> During a severe cold spell here in upstate NY (-20) our Honda would not
> start. It would turn over, but just wouldn't catch.
>
> Last Sunday, during a warm spell (yes it broke 32), I was finally able to
> get the car started, but it took me a long, long time. When it finally
> started, the car seemed to run very poorly. Thinking that this was related
> to trying to start it so many times, I took it for a test drive. It
> continued to run poorly, particularly at idle. After it warmed up, the
> Check Engine light came on.
>
> I took the car home and jumped the blue connector to get the engine
> code......code 43. This is an oxygen sensor problem and the manual says
> that it is the oxygen sensor if the car runs well and a fuel delivery
> problem if the car runs poorly. Therefore, seems to be a fuel delivery
> issue.
>
> At this point, I drive the car 3 miles to the nearest Honda dealership and
> call them. After 4 days, I get a call that I have big problems. They tell
> me that two cylinders show poor compression and that they found "gasoline
> fumes" (I think this is what the said) in my antifreeze. They want over
> $600 to replace the head gasket plus more money for anything they find wrong
> when they get in there (warped head, cracked head, etc.).
>
> So, I call my normal Honda mechanic (I did not take the car there because he
> is farther away and I was not too keen on driving the car). He tells me
> that in his opinion it is more likely a fuel problem. His hypothosis is
> that I have a bad distributor cap that is causing a spark problem and
> therefore there is excess fuel in the two cylinders that tested poorly. He
> says they would show low compression if flooded with fuel. He also went on
> to tell me that the people at the dealership are very young and
> inexperienced. I can support this because when I called the dealership
> about the engine code 43 the person told me that he was not familiar with
> the check engine lights!
>
> One other symptom I failed to mention is that the car pings during
> acceleration. What do you think? Does this sound like a head gasket issue.
> I will tell you that my daughter reported that the car overheated during the
> holidays. However, she is very observant and pulled over and turned the car
> off until it cooled down.
>
> Any other theories?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill

Based upon what you have said in your first post and other post related to
this subject--I think that you need to have your head gasket replaced. I
once had a vehicle that had a blown head gasket and my vehicle had many of
the exact same problems that your vehicle is having.

The dealer sounds shady. Perhaps you have a head gasket problem now. Why
would it EVER take FOUR DAYS to get back to you? These are simple tests.
Severe overheating can warp the head and/or damage the head gasket. My '88
Accord has been overheated twice though, once because the press-fit pulley
mounting fell off an American made water pump I installed and once because
the radiator fan went. These things happened years ago. It has 224,000 mi.
on it and no head gasket problems, ever. I wouldn't expect overheating once
to cause such a problem, unless maybe it was done for a long period of time.
She didn't leave the car running when she pulled over did she? Why did it
overheat at that time anyway? Whatever the case, experience tells me not to
deal with people that takes days to get back to you. Your regular competent
mechanic can find a head gasket problem. Have him test it.

Aron


"WORSS" <wrector@nospam.nycap.rr.com> wrote in message
news:CTZPb.66665$Su5.63333@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
> Okay....need some real Honda experts to work on this one!
>
> During a severe cold spell here in upstate NY (-20) our Honda would not
> start. It would turn over, but just wouldn't catch.
>
> Last Sunday, during a warm spell (yes it broke 32), I was finally able to
> get the car started, but it took me a long, long time. When it finally
> started, the car seemed to run very poorly. Thinking that this was
related
> to trying to start it so many times, I took it for a test drive. It
> continued to run poorly, particularly at idle. After it warmed up, the
> Check Engine light came on.
>
> I took the car home and jumped the blue connector to get the engine
> code......code 43. This is an oxygen sensor problem and the manual says
> that it is the oxygen sensor if the car runs well and a fuel delivery
> problem if the car runs poorly. Therefore, seems to be a fuel delivery
> issue.
>
> At this point, I drive the car 3 miles to the nearest Honda dealership and
> call them. After 4 days, I get a call that I have big problems. They
tell
> me that two cylinders show poor compression and that they found "gasoline
> fumes" (I think this is what the said) in my antifreeze. They want over
> $600 to replace the head gasket plus more money for anything they find
wrong
> when they get in there (warped head, cracked head, etc.).
>
> So, I call my normal Honda mechanic (I did not take the car there because
he
> is farther away and I was not too keen on driving the car). He tells me
> that in his opinion it is more likely a fuel problem. His hypothosis is
> that I have a bad distributor cap that is causing a spark problem and
> therefore there is excess fuel in the two cylinders that tested poorly.
He
> says they would show low compression if flooded with fuel. He also went
on
> to tell me that the people at the dealership are very young and
> inexperienced. I can support this because when I called the dealership
> about the engine code 43 the person told me that he was not familiar with
> the check engine lights!
>
> One other symptom I failed to mention is that the car pings during
> acceleration. What do you think? Does this sound like a head gasket
issue.
> I will tell you that my daughter reported that the car overheated during
the
> holidays. However, she is very observant and pulled over and turned the
car
> off until it cooled down.
>
> Any other theories?
>
> Thanks,
> Bill
>
>