Honda Car Forum

"Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<_n%Mb.8383$zj7.1156@newsread1.news.pas.earth link.net>...

> Have you used it in Hondas?

No, I've never owned a Honda, although they're good cars. I've used
it in Mazdas, Toyotas, and MBs.
>
> On the Honda newsgroups it seems to me a clear majority indicate the OEM
> anti-freeze is the only option for them, based on a lot of experience (with
> early Honda water pump bearing failures IIRC) and not just Honda salespeople.
>
> I suspect Prestone led to at least one early fairlure of one water pump on my
> 1991 Civic.

Water pumps, being mechanical devices, will always fail eventually, usually
at around 100k from my experience. Maybe there's some truth to your claim,
I don't know, but I've never heard that Prestone was bad for water pumps.
>
> I am now experimenting with the Havoline Dex stuff. I am also increasing the
> frequency of my radiator coolant flushes. Yet I would not advise Honda owners
> who don't have the time and who don't want want the trouble to do this.
>
> To play it safe, buy the Honda OEM anti-freeze for your Honda.

"Playing it safe" can cost unecessarily. Believe me, I know. I've
been around the block a few times, and have done much of my own
auto repairs/service for years, and I can tell you that much of what
is "recommended" from service people (who usually don't do as thorough
a job as I do myself), and even the manuals, is totally unnecessary.

--
Cliff

Larry Smith wrote:

> There is no magic at work here. It is fairly simple chemistry.
>

Amen. To read some of these owner's manuals, you'd swear that Honda or
Toyota aluminum atoms follow completely different laws of physics and
chemistry than Ford or Chrysler aluminum atoms.

Use the over-priced factory spooge through the warranty, then use a
proven formula afterward. And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
your fingers crossed too :-)

"Cliff Freeling" <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote
> "Caroline" <caroline10027remove@earthlink.net> wrote
snip
> > To play it safe, buy the Honda OEM anti-freeze for your Honda.
>
> "Playing it safe" can cost unecessarily. Believe me, I know. I've
> been around the block a few times, and have done much of my own
> auto repairs/service for years, and I can tell you that much of what
> is "recommended" from service people (who usually don't do as thorough
> a job as I do myself), and even the manuals, is totally unnecessary.

I agree and have similar experience. (I am an amateur home mechanic for very
basic car maintenance, like pretty much everything listed in the car's suggested
maintenance schedule.) I too loathe unnecessarily enriching corporate America.
E.g. I sure as heck don't change my oil every 3000 miles (anymore ;-) ). I'd
rather give the savings to charity.

Yet I hope we agree sometimes one does get what one pays for. Using OEM
anti-freeze might be one such instance, based on the many posts here on the
subject that talk about specific problems people feel their Hondas have had when
using NON-OEM anti-freeze, and the subsequent better performance when they
switched to OEM. Some of the people I respect most (e.g. who don't bullshit, who
don't push people around, and who admit their own mistakes over the years so as
to help others) in the group have this view based on personal experience with
their Hondas. I think I for one would be foolish to ignore it.

I appreciate your opinion. Barring further data, perhaps the Orange Dex is at
least a middle ground between the green Prestone/Peak and the OEM stuff. I will
keep the group posted... ;-)

In news:KKidnZ0PfsVSCpjdU-KYkQ@texas.net,
Steve <no@spam.thanks> being of bellicose mind posted:
> Larry Smith wrote:
>
> > There is no magic at work here. It is fairly simple chemistry.
> >
>
> Amen. To read some of these owner's manuals, you'd swear that
> Honda or Toyota aluminum atoms follow completely different laws of
> physics and chemistry than Ford or Chrysler aluminum atoms.

You may be onto something! Sub molecular nano technology!

--

-Philip

'If you don't pay the people enough money,
they can't buy the cars." -Henry Ford

> And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
> that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
> your fingers crossed too :-)

You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
in conventional ethylene glycol AF.

- Mark

In alt.autos.porsche Cliff Freeling <clifffreeling@yahoo.com> wrote:
: It doesn't take much of a USENET search to see all the
: badmouthing about Peak antifreeze, I guess mainly because
: the brand contains phospate. People say this and that,
: and repeat what others say without much thought.

: I have visited the Peak site and they discuss these issues,
: and what they say makes sense to me at least. People blast
: Peak because of the phosphates, then turn right around and
: recommend distilled water for cooling sytems (which apparently
: pretty much removes any negative effect from the phospates).
: The Peak site claims that some European car makers say to avoid
: such antifreezes simply because Europe generally has much harder
: water than the U.S....makes sense to me.

: Read it for yourself: http://www.peakantifreeze.com/tech/tech_b.html

: Maybe I'm naive, but how could they legally make the claims on this
: page (http://www.peakantifreeze.com/peakanti.html) about their
: standard product if it weren't fact anyway?

: And yes, I changed the coolant in my German car today, and used
: 50/50 Prestone and distilled water, but have used Peak for years in
: my cars with no problems.

Well, if your refering to a watercooled porsche, there is a TSB that lists
approved anti-freezes... in addition to the VW and Mercedes house brands,
one of the Zerex made the list...

Check alldata.com for the TSB.

Is it worth saving $5 bucks to screw up a $5k motor?

--
John Nelson
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markjen wrote:

>>And don't use Dex-Cool in ANYTHING except a GM
>>that calls for it and also has a good warranty in place.... and keep
>>your fingers crossed too :-)
>
>
> You were doing Ok, until you started off on this tangent. There is nothing
> wrong with using Dexcool in a modern engine and its arguably a better
> antifreeze with a much longer-life additive package. You do want a very
> good flush beforehand as there is some evidence of problems with the
> organize acid chemistry in Dexcool reacting poorly with the additive package
> in conventional ethylene glycol AF.
>


Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more widespread than
simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze. There have
been reported problems with it in new-manufacture GM engines that NEVER
HAD any other type antifreeze in them, and other problems reported in
engines very meticulously flushed before conversion. If anyone, out of
"environmental conscience" or for whatever reason, really is hell-bent
on a new-formulation antifreeze I believe the G-05 formula used by
Chrysler and Ford (and others) has a FAR better track record than DexCool.

> Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more widespread than
> simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.

I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime. But
neither of us have hard data, so not worth taking further.

- Mark

markjen wrote:

>>Dig deeper, the problems with DexCool are much more widespread than
>>simple incompatibility with residues from older antifreeze.
>
>
> I believe such problems also occur all the time with conventional "green"
> AF's, the introduction of Dexcool just was a convenient whipping boy for the
> types of cooling system problems that occur in cars all thetime.

I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.

> I've seen problems with cooling systems of all types, but I never saw
> green EG antifreeze turn to brown mush the consistency of mud.

You realize that Dexcool is almost all EG also, don't you? The only
difference between conventional EG and Dexcool is an organic acid corrosion
inhibitor package instead of the typical phosphate, silicate corrosion
inhibitor package. I don't see any mechanism where a slightly different
corrosion inhibitor package could take 8-qts of coolant and turn it into
mud.

Just like oil, AF's are a huge source or urban legend mythology.

- Mark