Honda Car Forum

I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid. It's got about 3500 miles on it now. I have
*loved* driving this car - quiet, smooth and peppy. But I must say that
I'm somewhat disappointed in the mileage I'm getting. It's averaging a
little better than 39 MPG. The EPA estimate is just under 50 MPG. I
know EPA is always high, but I would have thought I'd have gotten
closer than 10 MPG under.

It is true that most of my driving is the 20 minute trip to and from
work in stop and go traffic. I think I've done a pretty good job of
modifying my driving habits to the hybrid. I'm not sure what I could do
to maximize mileage, any more that what I've been doing.

What I'd like to hear is the experience of other Hybrid owners. Is my
mileage reasonable for the kind of driving I do? Does it get better
after the break-in period?

Personally I don't see the fascination with these hybrid cars. I mean what
really are you saving anyway? They don't get that much better mileage than
a standard Honda Civic which is bigger and a more substantial car. They
both use gas. And at the end of 100,000 miles or so, if you buy a hybrid,
you are having to spend several thousand dollars to buy 1000 lbs or so of
batteries to replace the old ones in the hybrid. You also don't have to
dispose of these batteries which are considered hazardous material. I
forgot to mention that the cost of the hybrid is higher than the Civic even
with a tax deduction.

Strictly from an environmental standpoint I don't think these things are
helping the environment at all and in fact may be hurting it. Honda
vehicles in general already have extremely low emissions.

CaptainKrunch



"Gary Gorbet" <ggorbet@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:070120042110075950%ggorbet@houston.rr.com...
> I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid. It's got about 3500 miles on it now. I have
> *loved* driving this car - quiet, smooth and peppy. But I must say that
> I'm somewhat disappointed in the mileage I'm getting. It's averaging a
> little better than 39 MPG. The EPA estimate is just under 50 MPG. I
> know EPA is always high, but I would have thought I'd have gotten
> closer than 10 MPG under.
>
> It is true that most of my driving is the 20 minute trip to and from
> work in stop and go traffic. I think I've done a pretty good job of
> modifying my driving habits to the hybrid. I'm not sure what I could do
> to maximize mileage, any more that what I've been doing.
>
> What I'd like to hear is the experience of other Hybrid owners. Is my
> mileage reasonable for the kind of driving I do? Does it get better
> after the break-in period?

"CaptainKrunch" <nothing@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:04-dnV--z_hNAmCiRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
> Personally I don't see the fascination with these hybrid cars. I mean
what
> really are you saving anyway? They don't get that much better mileage
than
> a standard Honda Civic which is bigger

Bigger?
How much?

The hybrid has 10 cubic feet of cargo capacity and the standard civic has
over 12. The Civic EX loaded is MSRP of 18k where as the hybrid is over
20K and the EX has about 20 more horsepower while getting and EPA rated 38
mpg on the freeway.

CaptainKrunch

"Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote in message
newsiiLb.53157$1g41.17355@twister01.bloor.is.net .cable.rogers.com...
>
> "CaptainKrunch" <nothing@nobody.com> wrote in message
> news:04-dnV--z_hNAmCiRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
> > Personally I don't see the fascination with these hybrid cars. I mean
> what
> > really are you saving anyway? They don't get that much better mileage
> than
> > a standard Honda Civic which is bigger
>
> Bigger?
> How much?
>
>

I would beg to differ on both counts.

According the Honda website, the cars are identical in overall size.
They have exactly the same passenger compartment measurements. The
trunk is 2 cu ft larger in the Civic than the Hybrid which I assume is
because of the batteries). Don't know what you mean by "more
substantial" so I can't comment on that.

EPA mileage estimates for the Hybrid are 46/51 MT; the MT Civic is
rated at 32/38. That's about 44% higher city and 34% higher highway
mileage. That sounds pretty significant to me.


On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:26:49 -0800, "CaptainKrunch"
<nothing@nobody.com> wrote:

>Personally I don't see the fascination with these hybrid cars. I mean what
>really are you saving anyway? They don't get that much better mileage than
>a standard Honda Civic which is bigger and a more substantial car. They
>both use gas. And at the end of 100,000 miles or so, if you buy a hybrid,
>you are having to spend several thousand dollars to buy 1000 lbs or so of
>batteries to replace the old ones in the hybrid. You also don't have to
>dispose of these batteries which are considered hazardous material. I
>forgot to mention that the cost of the hybrid is higher than the Civic even
>with a tax deduction.
>
>Strictly from an environmental standpoint I don't think these things are
>helping the environment at all and in fact may be hurting it. Honda
>vehicles in general already have extremely low emissions.
>
>CaptainKrunch
>
>
>
>"Gary Gorbet" <ggorbet@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
>news:070120042110075950%ggorbet@houston.rr.com. ..
>> I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid. It's got about 3500 miles on it now. I have
>> *loved* driving this car - quiet, smooth and peppy. But I must say that
>> I'm somewhat disappointed in the mileage I'm getting. It's averaging a
>> little better than 39 MPG. The EPA estimate is just under 50 MPG. I
>> know EPA is always high, but I would have thought I'd have gotten
>> closer than 10 MPG under.
>>
>> It is true that most of my driving is the 20 minute trip to and from
>> work in stop and go traffic. I think I've done a pretty good job of
>> modifying my driving habits to the hybrid. I'm not sure what I could do
>> to maximize mileage, any more that what I've been doing.
>>
>> What I'd like to hear is the experience of other Hybrid owners. Is my
>> mileage reasonable for the kind of driving I do? Does it get better
>> after the break-in period?
>

Oh I almost forgot. An important feature to me that the standard Civic has
that the Hybrid does not is that the rear seat folds down in the EX or LX
not the Hybrid. When you have a small car like that it may be important to
be able to fold the rear seat down once in a while.

CaptainKrunch


"Stephen Bigelow" <sbigelowPOV@rogers.com> wrote in message
newsiiLb.53157$1g41.17355@twister01.bloor.is.net .cable.rogers.com...
>
> "CaptainKrunch" <nothing@nobody.com> wrote in message
> news:04-dnV--z_hNAmCiRVn-sQ@comcast.com...
> > Personally I don't see the fascination with these hybrid cars. I mean
> what
> > really are you saving anyway? They don't get that much better mileage
> than
> > a standard Honda Civic which is bigger
>
> Bigger?
> How much?
>
>

"CaptainKrunch" <nothing@nobody.com> wrote in message
news:Y_adnYUDSeTjJWCiRVn-hQ@comcast.com...
> The hybrid has 10 cubic feet of cargo capacity and the standard civic has
> over 12.

Oh.

> > > a standard Honda Civic which is bigger
> >
> > Bigger?
> > How much?
> >
> >
>
>

For the first 500 miles (Civic Hybrid with CVT auto transmission), we're
averaging about 42-43mpg with some trips getting close to 50mpg.

Alex


"Gary Gorbet" <ggorbet@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
news:070120042110075950%ggorbet@houston.rr.com...
> I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid. It's got about 3500 miles on it now. I have
> *loved* driving this car - quiet, smooth and peppy. But I must say that
> I'm somewhat disappointed in the mileage I'm getting. It's averaging a
> little better than 39 MPG. The EPA estimate is just under 50 MPG. I
> know EPA is always high, but I would have thought I'd have gotten
> closer than 10 MPG under.
>
> It is true that most of my driving is the 20 minute trip to and from
> work in stop and go traffic. I think I've done a pretty good job of
> modifying my driving habits to the hybrid. I'm not sure what I could do
> to maximize mileage, any more that what I've been doing.
>
> What I'd like to hear is the experience of other Hybrid owners. Is my
> mileage reasonable for the kind of driving I do? Does it get better
> after the break-in period?

On Thu, 08 Jan 2004 03:10:07 GMT, Gary Gorbet <ggorbet@houston.rr.com>
wrote:

>I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid. It's got about 3500 miles on it now. I have
>*loved* driving this car - quiet, smooth and peppy. But I must say that
>I'm somewhat disappointed in the mileage I'm getting. It's averaging a
>little better than 39 MPG. The EPA estimate is just under 50 MPG. I
>know EPA is always high, but I would have thought I'd have gotten
>closer than 10 MPG under.
>
>It is true that most of my driving is the 20 minute trip to and from
>work in stop and go traffic. I think I've done a pretty good job of
>modifying my driving habits to the hybrid. I'm not sure what I could do
>to maximize mileage, any more that what I've been doing.
>

The key words in economy driving are smoothness. planning, and gentle.
If you accelerate slowly, you will get better figures, brake lowly,
and smoothly, removing only the speed you need. plan ahead. if you see
someone's going to turn, and they're in the same lane, see if you can
change lanes to go around, or just take yuor foot from the
accelerator, and let you car slowly drift back, to build up a buffer.

Simple thing to remember is "Brakes = wasted fuel" If you use the
brakes, you're transfering all that lovely kinetic energy your engines
worked hard to get you, and just dumped itinto the brakes as heat.
Think smooth, plan ahead. CVTs are great for economy - cars always
kept at peak torque, which is where its operating most effectivly. If
you plan ahead, your economy goes way up. I ca still get 40+mpg out of
my very battered old 88 civicDX (and it can drop to 15-20mpg when I
really push it up aroudn 90+)

Also, don't worry about the batteries. Theres plenty of places to take
old batteries now, and they CAN be recycled. not all that hard, least
its not NiMH - they're expensive to recycle (although they do get
great capacity)



>What I'd like to hear is the experience of other Hybrid owners. Is my
>mileage reasonable for the kind of driving I do? Does it get better
>after the break-in period?

Well if we are going to go percentage routes lets us state that the over two
cubic foot cargo capacity difference between the two means the standard
Civic has a 20% larger cargo capacity. The engine in the EX has about 36%
more horsepower and after a year of driving 15,000 miles at $1.50 a gallon
at freeway EPA estimates of Mpg the hybrid costs about $441 a year compared
to the $592 a year for the Civic EX. This is just assuming all freeway
miles and EPA estimates of MPG for the sake of clarity and argument. At the
end of 5 years that is $2205 for the hybrid and $2960 for the Civic Ex. So
over the period of five years and 75,000 miles you save about $760 in gas.
Of course the hybrid is about $4000 more than the standard LX and $2000 more
than a Civic Ex plus at the end of five years it is totally feasible that
those batteries will now have to be replaced at a cost of several thousand
dollars. That is what I hear anyways.

So it costs several thousand more in the initial purchase plus battery
replacement down the road which is a major expense in the few thousand $
range all so that you could save $760 over 5 years in gas and think that
you are doing the environment good.

Theoretically if you bought the Lx for 16k MSRP and drove it for 5 years,
75,000 miles it would cost $17,960 not including tax, license, insurance
standard maintenance etc. Just MSRP and gas. The hybrid would cost 20K
plus $2205 for gas and about $2000 for batteries. I have included batteries
for the hybrid because that is the whole point of this car and is being used
to contest the 40% or so in gas savings. So the total for the hybrid is
$24,205 and the Civic LX is $17,960. There is some type of tax deduction
with the hybrid purchase I believe but I don't know what it is or if it is
only able to be utilized if you itemize your taxes so I have left it out.
But I am sure it isn't that much.

In the end if I want to save $760 in gas over a five year period I only have
to cut my horsepower from 127 to around 93, lose a few cubic feet in the
trunk, keep my rear seats from folding down and pay an additional $6245.00?

I don't think I need to beat this dead horse anymore.

CaptainKrunch


"TL" <tlehman@visi.com> wrote in message
news:h3ervvsb1kquqglbujd1b6p6bfjb90gt7i@4ax.com...
> I would beg to differ on both counts.
>
> According the Honda website, the cars are identical in overall size.
> They have exactly the same passenger compartment measurements. The
> trunk is 2 cu ft larger in the Civic than the Hybrid which I assume is
> because of the batteries). Don't know what you mean by "more
> substantial" so I can't comment on that.
>
> EPA mileage estimates for the Hybrid are 46/51 MT; the MT Civic is
> rated at 32/38. That's about 44% higher city and 34% higher highway
> mileage. That sounds pretty significant to me.
>
>
> On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:26:49 -0800, "CaptainKrunch"
> <nothing@nobody.com> wrote:
>
> >Personally I don't see the fascination with these hybrid cars. I mean
what
> >really are you saving anyway? They don't get that much better mileage
than
> >a standard Honda Civic which is bigger and a more substantial car. They
> >both use gas. And at the end of 100,000 miles or so, if you buy a
hybrid,
> >you are having to spend several thousand dollars to buy 1000 lbs or so of
> >batteries to replace the old ones in the hybrid. You also don't have to
> >dispose of these batteries which are considered hazardous material. I
> >forgot to mention that the cost of the hybrid is higher than the Civic
even
> >with a tax deduction.
> >
> >Strictly from an environmental standpoint I don't think these things are
> >helping the environment at all and in fact may be hurting it. Honda
> >vehicles in general already have extremely low emissions.
> >
> >CaptainKrunch
> >
> >
> >
> >"Gary Gorbet" <ggorbet@houston.rr.com> wrote in message
> >news:070120042110075950%ggorbet@houston.rr.com. ..
> >> I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid. It's got about 3500 miles on it now. I have
> >> *loved* driving this car - quiet, smooth and peppy. But I must say that
> >> I'm somewhat disappointed in the mileage I'm getting. It's averaging a
> >> little better than 39 MPG. The EPA estimate is just under 50 MPG. I
> >> know EPA is always high, but I would have thought I'd have gotten
> >> closer than 10 MPG under.
> >>
> >> It is true that most of my driving is the 20 minute trip to and from
> >> work in stop and go traffic. I think I've done a pretty good job of
> >> modifying my driving habits to the hybrid. I'm not sure what I could do
> >> to maximize mileage, any more that what I've been doing.
> >>
> >> What I'd like to hear is the experience of other Hybrid owners. Is my
> >> mileage reasonable for the kind of driving I do? Does it get better
> >> after the break-in period?
> >
>