Honda Car Forum

Nov 17 - Called Dawn Morris, told her what happened. Told her I was tired of
being a guinea pig for their attempts to fix the transmission, and that I
wanted a new (not a remanufactured) transmission ordered and installed in
the car. She agreed, and said she would talk to Vic (service adviser) and
have him call me. Vic calls at 10:30 am and says they have ordered a
transmission from Montreal and expect it to arrive sometime tomorrow.

Nov 18 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the transmission is in. Book
appointment for Wednesday morning, says it will take "a day or two."

Nov 19 - Take car in at 8:00 am. Mention the alignment problem.

Nov 20 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the car is done and ready to go. I
arrive at 2 pm to pick it up, Joe (shop foreman) says he wants to take a
test drive with me to make sure everything is OK. Dawn Morris comes along
too, she introduces herself and says "glad to meet you" despite the fact I
have met her three times before and talked to her on the phone probably ten
times. As we start out, I can't get car into first gear, it goes past the
synchro, but not into gear. Letting the clutch out makes a grinding noise
and it pops back to neutral. I look at Joe, try it again, and it works fine.
Go out for a test drive, everything seems fine. Get back to the dealership,
Dawn wants me to sign a paper to say that everything was done correctly. She
leaves, saying, "it was nice to finally meet you." Joe leaves. I get in the
car to leave, and the problem with first gear happens again. I sit there and
get it to repeat three more times. I go inside to get Joe. He comes out to
the car, I demonstrate it to him three more times. He says it might be just
that the transmission is brand new out of the crate and needs to "seat" and
that if it continues for any length of time, to bring it back.

Hi,
I'd demand refund or
different car. Talked to Handa regional rep?
That car is not new any more. messed up pretty good. Maybe you have
a bum dealer. Try other one. Let them take it back(even as a trade-in)
and get different car or '04 model. Sounds like the car is cursed.
Tony

Scott MacLean wrote:

> Nov 17 - Called Dawn Morris, told her what happened. Told her I was tired of
> being a guinea pig for their attempts to fix the transmission, and that I
> wanted a new (not a remanufactured) transmission ordered and installed in
> the car. She agreed, and said she would talk to Vic (service adviser) and
> have him call me. Vic calls at 10:30 am and says they have ordered a
> transmission from Montreal and expect it to arrive sometime tomorrow.
>
> Nov 18 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the transmission is in. Book
> appointment for Wednesday morning, says it will take "a day or two."
>
> Nov 19 - Take car in at 8:00 am. Mention the alignment problem.
>
> Nov 20 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the car is done and ready to go. I
> arrive at 2 pm to pick it up, Joe (shop foreman) says he wants to take a
> test drive with me to make sure everything is OK. Dawn Morris comes along
> too, she introduces herself and says "glad to meet you" despite the fact I
> have met her three times before and talked to her on the phone probably ten
> times. As we start out, I can't get car into first gear, it goes past the
> synchro, but not into gear. Letting the clutch out makes a grinding noise
> and it pops back to neutral. I look at Joe, try it again, and it works fine.
> Go out for a test drive, everything seems fine. Get back to the dealership,
> Dawn wants me to sign a paper to say that everything was done correctly. She
> leaves, saying, "it was nice to finally meet you." Joe leaves. I get in the
> car to leave, and the problem with first gear happens again. I sit there and
> get it to repeat three more times. I go inside to get Joe. He comes out to
> the car, I demonstrate it to him three more times. He says it might be just
> that the transmission is brand new out of the crate and needs to "seat" and
> that if it continues for any length of time, to bring it back.
>
>

"Scott MacLean" <scottNO@SPAMnerosoft.com> wrote in
news:Tlavb.14537$iT4.1763231@news20.bellglobal.com :

> Nov 17 - Called Dawn Morris, told her what happened. Told her I was
> tired of being a guinea pig for their attempts to fix the
> transmission, and that I wanted a new (not a remanufactured)
> transmission ordered and installed in the car. She agreed, and said
> she would talk to Vic (service adviser) and have him call me. Vic
> calls at 10:30 am and says they have ordered a transmission from
> Montreal and expect it to arrive sometime tomorrow.
>
> Nov 18 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the transmission is in. Book
> appointment for Wednesday morning, says it will take "a day or two."
>
> Nov 19 - Take car in at 8:00 am. Mention the alignment problem.
>
> Nov 20 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the car is done and ready to go.
> I arrive at 2 pm to pick it up, Joe (shop foreman) says he wants to
> take a test drive with me to make sure everything is OK. Dawn Morris
> comes along too, she introduces herself and says "glad to meet you"
> despite the fact I have met her three times before and talked to her
> on the phone probably ten times. As we start out, I can't get car into
> first gear, it goes past the synchro, but not into gear. Letting the
> clutch out makes a grinding noise and it pops back to neutral. I look
> at Joe, try it again, and it works fine. Go out for a test drive,
> everything seems fine. Get back to the dealership, Dawn wants me to
> sign a paper to say that everything was done correctly. She leaves,
> saying, "it was nice to finally meet you." Joe leaves. I get in the
> car to leave, and the problem with first gear happens again. I sit
> there and get it to repeat three more times. I go inside to get Joe.
> He comes out to the car, I demonstrate it to him three more times. He
> says it might be just that the transmission is brand new out of the
> crate and needs to "seat" and that if it continues for any length of
> time, to bring it back.
>
>

Hopefully, you never signed the paper! I would have never left the lot
with the car like that!

"Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:21cvb.443140$6C4.367978@pd7tw1no...
> Hi,
> I'd demand refund or
> different car. Talked to Handa regional rep?
> That car is not new any more. messed up pretty good. Maybe you have
> a bum dealer. Try other one. Let them take it back(even as a trade-in)
> and get different car or '04 model. Sounds like the car is cursed.
> Tony
>
> Scott MacLean wrote:
>
> > Nov 17 - Called Dawn Morris, told her what happened. Told her I was
tired of
> > being a guinea pig for their attempts to fix the transmission, and that
I
> > wanted a new (not a remanufactured) transmission ordered and installed
in
> > the car. She agreed, and said she would talk to Vic (service adviser)
and
> > have him call me. Vic calls at 10:30 am and says they have ordered a
> > transmission from Montreal and expect it to arrive sometime tomorrow.
> >
> > Nov 18 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the transmission is in. Book
> > appointment for Wednesday morning, says it will take "a day or two."
> >
> > Nov 19 - Take car in at 8:00 am. Mention the alignment problem.
> >
> > Nov 20 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the car is done and ready to go. I
> > arrive at 2 pm to pick it up, Joe (shop foreman) says he wants to take a
> > test drive with me to make sure everything is OK. Dawn Morris comes
along
> > too, she introduces herself and says "glad to meet you" despite the fact
I
> > have met her three times before and talked to her on the phone probably
ten
> > times. As we start out, I can't get car into first gear, it goes past
the
> > synchro, but not into gear. Letting the clutch out makes a grinding
noise
> > and it pops back to neutral. I look at Joe, try it again, and it works
fine.
> > Go out for a test drive, everything seems fine. Get back to the
dealership,
> > Dawn wants me to sign a paper to say that everything was done correctly.
She
> > leaves, saying, "it was nice to finally meet you." Joe leaves. I get in
the
> > car to leave, and the problem with first gear happens again. I sit there
and
> > get it to repeat three more times. I go inside to get Joe. He comes out
to
> > the car, I demonstrate it to him three more times. He says it might be
just
> > that the transmission is brand new out of the crate and needs to "seat"
and
> > that if it continues for any length of time, to bring it back.
> >


If Woodbridge Honda is the dealer from Hell.
Mr. MacLean surely is the customer from Heaven.
As I stated earlier -- he is one patient man

The Artful Codger

"Artfulcodger" <mcbat@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:qwcvb.128938$HoK.92267@news01.bloor.is.net.ca ble.rogers.com...
>
> "Tony Hwang" <dragon40@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:21cvb.443140$6C4.367978@pd7tw1no...
> > Hi,
> > I'd demand refund or
> > different car. Talked to Handa regional rep?
> > That car is not new any more. messed up pretty good. Maybe you have
> > a bum dealer. Try other one. Let them take it back(even as a trade-in)
> > and get different car or '04 model. Sounds like the car is cursed.
> > Tony
> >
> > Scott MacLean wrote:
> >
> > > Nov 17 - Called Dawn Morris, told her what happened. Told her I was
> tired of
> > > being a guinea pig for their attempts to fix the transmission, and
that
> I
> > > wanted a new (not a remanufactured) transmission ordered and installed
> in
> > > the car. She agreed, and said she would talk to Vic (service adviser)
> and
> > > have him call me. Vic calls at 10:30 am and says they have ordered a
> > > transmission from Montreal and expect it to arrive sometime tomorrow.
> > >
> > > Nov 18 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the transmission is in. Book
> > > appointment for Wednesday morning, says it will take "a day or two."
> > >
> > > Nov 19 - Take car in at 8:00 am. Mention the alignment problem.
> > >
> > > Nov 20 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the car is done and ready to go.
I
> > > arrive at 2 pm to pick it up, Joe (shop foreman) says he wants to take
a
> > > test drive with me to make sure everything is OK. Dawn Morris comes
> along
> > > too, she introduces herself and says "glad to meet you" despite the
fact
> I
> > > have met her three times before and talked to her on the phone
probably
> ten
> > > times. As we start out, I can't get car into first gear, it goes past
> the
> > > synchro, but not into gear. Letting the clutch out makes a grinding
> noise
> > > and it pops back to neutral. I look at Joe, try it again, and it works
> fine.
> > > Go out for a test drive, everything seems fine. Get back to the
> dealership,
> > > Dawn wants me to sign a paper to say that everything was done
correctly.
> She
> > > leaves, saying, "it was nice to finally meet you." Joe leaves. I get
in
> the
> > > car to leave, and the problem with first gear happens again. I sit
there
> and
> > > get it to repeat three more times. I go inside to get Joe. He comes
out
> to
> > > the car, I demonstrate it to him three more times. He says it might be
> just
> > > that the transmission is brand new out of the crate and needs to
"seat"
> and
> > > that if it continues for any length of time, to bring it back.
> > >
>
>
> If Woodbridge Honda is the dealer from Hell.
> Mr. MacLean surely is the customer from Heaven.
> As I stated earlier -- he is one patient man
>
> The Artful Codger

Patient may be an understatement. Would the lemon law apply in this case?

-Dave

"Scott MacLean" <scottNO@SPAMnerosoft.com> wrote in message
news:Tlavb.14537$iT4.1763231@news20.bellglobal.com ...
> Nov 17 - Called Dawn Morris, told her what happened. Told her I was tired
of
> being a guinea pig for their attempts to fix the transmission, and that I
> wanted a new (not a remanufactured) transmission ordered and installed in
> the car. She agreed, and said she would talk to Vic (service adviser) and
> have him call me. Vic calls at 10:30 am and says they have ordered a
> transmission from Montreal and expect it to arrive sometime tomorrow.
>
> Nov 18 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the transmission is in. Book
> appointment for Wednesday morning, says it will take "a day or two."
>
> Nov 19 - Take car in at 8:00 am. Mention the alignment problem.
>
> Nov 20 - Vic calls at 11:30 am, says the car is done and ready to go. I
> arrive at 2 pm to pick it up, Joe (shop foreman) says he wants to take a
> test drive with me to make sure everything is OK. Dawn Morris comes along
> too, she introduces herself and says "glad to meet you" despite the fact I
> have met her three times before and talked to her on the phone probably
ten
> times. As we start out, I can't get car into first gear, it goes past the
> synchro, but not into gear. Letting the clutch out makes a grinding noise
> and it pops back to neutral. I look at Joe, try it again, and it works
fine.
> Go out for a test drive, everything seems fine. Get back to the
dealership,
> Dawn wants me to sign a paper to say that everything was done correctly.
She
> leaves, saying, "it was nice to finally meet you." Joe leaves. I get in
the
> car to leave, and the problem with first gear happens again. I sit there
and
> get it to repeat three more times. I go inside to get Joe. He comes out to
> the car, I demonstrate it to him three more times. He says it might be
just
> that the transmission is brand new out of the crate and needs to "seat"
and
> that if it continues for any length of time, to bring it back.
>
>

Reminds me of Chevy dealers when I drove Corvettes 30 years ago. I would
write (not call) Honda a letter with blow by blow details. Given the
limited production (supposed to be) of the V6 manual Accord, I cannot
understand the lousy quality and even worse dealer service.

"David L" <davelieu@REMOVE-MEyahoo.com> wrote in message news:<RY6dne0B6_TzyiCi4p2dnA@comcast.com>...
>
> > If Woodbridge Honda is the dealer from Hell.
> > Mr. MacLean surely is the customer from Heaven.
> > As I stated earlier -- he is one patient man
> >
> > The Artful Codger
>
> Patient may be an understatement. Would the lemon law apply in this case?
>
> -Dave

Just a couple observations (having gone back to read all everything by
the OP):

Lemon law (which may be different in Canada, and IANAL), states that
after three failed repair attempts. This is the first repair attempt,
and they did make an attempt. Judging by the tone of the OP, I don't
blame the dealer for getting something signed, and her not remembering
she met you is a red herring. She's a ditz, doesn't mean she (they)
don't want to make it right.

You bought a car in the first model year that has a very low
production run, you should expect there to be problems. You do
software development, do you understand what six sigma is?

From http://www.isixsigma.com/sixsigma/six_sigma.asp:
"The statistical representation of Six Sigma describes
quantitatively
how a process is performing. To achieve Six Sigma, a
process must not
produce more than 3.4 defects per million opportunities."

From http://www.wam.umd.edu/~vmayank/quality/mainpaper.htm:
Here we look at what it means to achieve this ultimate level of
performance:

* If your water heater operated at 4s, you would be without hot
water more than 54 hours each year. At 6s, you'd be without hot water
for less than 2 minutes a year.
* With a 4s packaging process, approximately 6 out of every 1,000
packages will be outside of specifications. At 6s, only three packages
in every million will miss specifications.
* If your electricity operated at 4s performance, your lights
would be out an hour a week. At 6s, you would be without lights about
2 seconds a week.
* With a 4s design process, 6 out of every 1,000-design elements
relating to a new product are flawed before the product is fully
commercialized, versus a 6s process, where only about 3 of every one
million-design elements are flawed.
* If your telephone operated at 4s, you would be without service
for more than 4 hours a month. At 6s, it would be about 9 seconds a
month.
* At 4s, about 6 out of every 1,000 invoices will contain
incorrect information. At 6s, mistakes will occur only 3 times in
every 1,000,000 invoices.
* If your car operated at 4s performance, you would spend 37
minutes in the repair shop for every 100 hours you operate the
vehicle. At 6s, you would have only 1.2 seconds of repair for every
100 hours of operation.
* A 4s process will typically result in 1 defective package of
product for every 3 truckloads we ship. A 6s process means 1 defective
package for every 5,350 truckloads.

Following examples show the consequences of processes, which operate
at 4s level.

* 20000 pieces of mails are lost every hour.
* Supply of unsafe drinking water for almost 15 minutes everyday.
* 5000 incorrect surgery operations every week.
* 2 short or long landings at the major airport every day.
* 200,000 incorrect drug prescriptions every year.
* No electricity for almost 7 hours each month.

Does your software conform to 3.4 defects per million lines of code?

You are going to have problems. My 2002 Accord creaks when I go down
the ramp in a parking garage, it was assembled in Ohio. I can tell you
that while the finish work on this Honda is not as good as the
previous two (both assembled in Japan), having traded a Saturn in for
it taught me not to freak about tiny things. The transmission is a big
deal, the creak is not. They're trying to fix it, give them a chance.
At least your dealer had loaners to give (many don't). You should have
bought a C230 if you wanted welfare price and white glove treatment.

In article <a50fcf68.0311222142.46c637c0@posting.google.com >,
johns_spam_address@yahoo.com (?fooguy?) wrote:

> You are going to have problems. My 2002 Accord creaks when I go down
> the ramp in a parking garage, it was assembled in Ohio.

My 2000 Accord was assembled in Japan, and the front end squeaks/creaks
when going over speed humps. It has 32K miles on the clock.

It's intermittent enough that I can't reproduce it for the service
manager, but it's still under warranty and I'd like to have it fixed.
But like you said, it's not a big deal at all.

I understand this (and the previous post). The transmission was (and still
is) a big deal. The creak, is not, functionally, a huge thing - but it was
driving me nuts. If the car was in motion, the car was creaking, constantly,
all the time. In any case, they found and fixed the creak (a broken spot
weld). The brand new transmission has problems with the first gear syncro.
Being that the original transmission also had syncro problems, I wonder if
this is going to be something that shows up more often than not in the model
year?

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:l62wb.12212$P13.8872@fe14.private.usenetserve r.com...
> In article <a50fcf68.0311222142.46c637c0@posting.google.com >,
> johns_spam_address@yahoo.com (?fooguy?) wrote:
>
> > You are going to have problems. My 2002 Accord creaks when I go down
> > the ramp in a parking garage, it was assembled in Ohio.
>
> My 2000 Accord was assembled in Japan, and the front end squeaks/creaks
> when going over speed humps. It has 32K miles on the clock.
>
> It's intermittent enough that I can't reproduce it for the service
> manager, but it's still under warranty and I'd like to have it fixed.
> But like you said, it's not a big deal at all.
>

I wonder if there is something wrong with the shift linkage. bob

Scott MacLean wrote:

> The brand new transmission has problems with the first gear syncro.
> Being that the original transmission also had syncro problems, I wonder if this is going to be something that shows up more often than not in the model year?