Honda Car Forum

<rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:928a3efb-5e2d-457b-965f-6e5e7b22fa66@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
> don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the
> event of future warranty work, which they are known for.

So how are you going to prove that you have changed the oil?
Traditional way was to show a copy of the invoice from the shop...
In case of DIY, how do you do it?

I change my oil or ATF and properly recycle it bringing used oil
to local PepBoys shop but I wonder what troubles I am facing
in case I will have contested warranty claim and warrantor
wants to see all the proof of maintenance done on this car...
Yes, I have purchased maintenance fluids, filters and kept
the receipts, but from the legal point of view they proof only
the fact I purchased these items. Statement can be made
that I have actually never gone about doing these things and
oil filter is still sitting on my garrage shelf :-)

> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me
> that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting.
> Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for
> at least higher I.Q's.

I have 2004 without this feature and probably there is not many
other group members with 2009 AND knowing how it works...

I fully understant your question and I am also quite surprised
with Elmo's answer :-) I alsodo not know how really does it work,
we can only guess. As a computer engineer I can infer that if
the whole "user interface" consists of holding the single button
to reset the indicator IT MUST be done the way you reset
each thing separatelly. Each managed item like the oil life, air
filter, ATF would have its own maintenance period requirement
and clearing the warning would affect only this particular item.
As you probably agree it would be silly if changing the engine
oil every 5-8k miles and reseting the minder would also clear
the "timer" for the ATF or air filter.

In case you do some service which is not reported yet, so
lets say you replace air filter before the air filter icon pops up
on the screen, you as a user will not have the proper "user
interface" to clear the minder. I am guessing clearing such
thing before the indicator is there on the screen can be done
only accessing the computer through the OBD-II connector
if possible at all.

There is also another thing to think about... The state of the oil
is not directly measured with any sensor - it is "calculated"
using some routine based on the car usage... The same is
probably done for ATF or air filter.

On Oct 15, 9:46*am, "Pszemol" <Psze...@PolBox.com> wrote:
> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:928a3efb-5e2d-457b-965f-6e5e7b22fa66@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the
> > event of future warranty work, which they are known for.
>
> So how are you going to prove that you have changed the oil?
> Traditional way was to show a copy of the invoice from the shop...
> In case of DIY, how do you do it?

I plan to buy the oil filters from the dealership (while under
warranty),
and of course keep the receipts for the oil, which also of course
will
be the recommended weight and quality--I plan to use Castrol
5w-20 dino. I will also write all the particulars down in my
little servcie book that came with the car, including the
Oil Life reading when the oil was changed.

> I change my oil or ATF and properly recycle it bringing used oil
> to local PepBoys shop but I wonder what troubles I am facing
> in case I will have contested warranty claim and warrantor
> wants to see all the proof of maintenance done on this car...
> Yes, I have purchased maintenance fluids, filters and kept
> the receipts, but from the legal point of view they proof only
> the fact I purchased these items. Statement can be made
> that I have actually never gone about doing these things and
> oil filter is still sitting on my garrage shelf :-)

I guess that's true, strictly speaking, but with all of the
documentation you have, I think it would be a stretch
for Honda to wiggle out of warranty work. It just wouldn't
make any sense that detailed oriented owner like you
would buy these items and not use them on his late
model car. They could also look at the various installed
components, including the condition of your motor oil in the engine.

> > I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me
> > that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting.
> > Honda owners? *I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for
> > at least higher I.Q's.
>
> I have 2004 without this feature and probably there is not many
> other group members with 2009 AND knowing how it works...
>
> I fully understant your question and I am also quite surprised
> with Elmo's answer :-) I alsodo not know how really does it work,
> we can only guess. As a computer engineer I can infer that if
> the whole "user interface" consists of holding the single button
> to reset the indicator IT MUST be done the way you reset
> each thing separatelly. Each managed item like the oil life, air
> filter, ATF would have its own maintenance period requirement
> and clearing the warning would affect only this particular item.
> As you probably agree it would be silly if changing the engine
> oil every 5-8k miles and reseting the minder would also clear
> the "timer" for the ATF or air filter.

Yep, you're right. The manual doesn't address this. They make
it sound like the whole system is reset when the oil is changed.
Does your '04 just have a Minder for oil changes and not the
other stuff?

> In case you do some service which is not reported yet, so
> lets say you replace air filter before the air filter icon pops up
> on the screen, you as a user will not have the proper "user
> interface" to clear the minder. I am guessing clearing such
> thing before the indicator is there on the screen can be done
> only accessing the computer through the OBD-II connector
> if possible at all.
>
> There is also another thing to think about... The state of the oil
> is not directly measured with any sensor - it is "calculated"
> using some routine based on the car usage...

Yep, this is the way it was with BMW. When I first bought
a car with this, I was, like you, thinking sensor. But it is simply
based on a little formula that has as variables RPM, mileage,
engine temp, etc. I could give you the actual formula BMW
uses if you're interested. I always felt it was a bit inaccurate
and pretentious since, in my view, if left out the most important
thing: engine run time.

Thanks for the intelligent response!

>The same is
> probably done for ATF or air filter.

<rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:928a3efb-5e2d-457b-965f-6e5e7b22fa66@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
On Oct 15, 2:38 am, "Justbob30" <justbo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs
> changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. Oil changes at
> pre set intervals are no longer the rule....They do however turn a nice
> profit for the dealership if you insist....but as impressed as I am you
> owned a BMW (not) which....well makes you an expert because?

During the years I owned those cars, I did a great deal of "research"
on the very common subject of argument with "car people": oil
changes..
best types/brands and frequency of change. As I've said, changing
out factory oil in a new engine is not a bad idea at 5k miles. I also
don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the
event of future warranty work, which they are known for.

> I however do not claim to be an expert, so, do as you wish it is after all
> your money, it is however our planet and with any luck you will use a
> dealership that properly recycles (under)used oil.

I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me
that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting.
Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for
at least higher I.Q's.

=============================================

I have an '07 Accord and an '08 Fit.

On both cars the MM coordinates the other maintenance items in conjunction
with oil changes. Yes, resetting the MM resets everything, but nothing
shows up independently of the oil changes, so that is OK.

Just a hint. You will get more information if you don't come across as such
an asshole.

..

"Truckdude" <sarah@duh.com> wrote in message
news:tRnJk.181054$1p1.59158@en-nntp-08.dc1.easynews.com...
> Just a hint.
> You will get more information if you don't come across as such an asshole.

I can understant his frustration after reading Elmo's response...

Response indicating not understanding the question after 2nd attempt.

Looking at the message writing times I can only say Elmo did not
have enough time for sleep and recharge his brain batteries... ;-)

On Tue, 14 Oct 2008 19:43:17 -0700 (PDT), rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com
wrote:

>Okay, I'll try again. At present, the car has only about 700 miles
>on it. I can
>toggle from Oil Life to "Trip A" and "Trip B" which are odometers.
>The manual
>tells me how to reset the MM when the oil is changed, by holding down
>the
>button for 15 seconds or so. What happens later when other things
>need
>to be done that I get messages (symbols) for---change air filter,
>plugs,
>transmission fluid, etc.? I assume I will be able to toggle to reset
>those
>when that service is done, without of course affecting the Oil Life
>tracking.

Here is what happens with my 2006 Honda. Every now and then, the
Maintenance Minder comes on and tells me what needs to be done. The
oil change interval is averaging about 7000 miles or so. Other
reminders come on at the same time as the oil change reminder, using
codes. I look these codes up in the manual and I do those things too
(cabin filter, air cleaner filter, etc.). When I reset the MM,
everything goes away.

The reminder intervals are based on driving habits and conditions.

If you ever get a reminder to change the oil and nothing else, then I
suspect you can reset just that reminder. But what ever shows up is
all cleared by the same procedure as you describe: "holding down the
button for 15 seconds"



Elliot Richmond
Itinerant astronomy teacher

Thus spake rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com :

>On Oct 15, 5:46*am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
>wrote:
>> In article
>> <3760a18a-333a-4856-b3b7-e11477bf9...@u27g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> *rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote:
>> > The manual
>> > tells me how to reset the MM when the oil is changed, by holding down
>> > the
>> > button for 15 seconds or so. * What happens later when other things
>> > need
>> > to be done that I get messages (symbols) for---change air filter,
>> > plugs,
>> > transmission fluid, etc.? *I assume I will be able to toggle to reset
>> > those
>> > when that service is done, without of course affecting the Oil Life
>> > tracking.
>>
>> No.
>>
>> the MM tracks everything.
>>
>> Reset the MM, reset everything.
>
>So, you're telling me that when I change only the oil and reset the
>MM, that
>all the other maintenance item are also reset, even with the other
>items
>not being replaced/serviced? Do you think about what you write? Do
>you even think?

No. You'll get a notice that says you need, for istance (looking at
my 08 Fit this morning) A1 service. Looking in the book, this is oil
and rotate. Both of those can and will be done at home this weekend.
But eventually other items will need to be done and these will pop up
on their own, at their own schedule. But if you replace the air
filter when its service interval comes along and don't do the oil,
which should also be done at the same time, the oil interval will be
reset.

Perhaps you should read the manual. It's all called out in nice
detail.

Thus spake rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com :

>On Oct 15, 2:38*am, "Justbob30" <justbo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Sorry, no, leave the break in oil in until the car tells you it needs
>> changing, any dealer worth their salt will tell you that. *Oil changes at
>> pre set intervals are no longer the rule....They do however *turn a nice
>> profit for the dealership if you insist....but as impressed as I am you
>> owned a BMW (not) which....well makes you an expert because?
>
>During the years I owned those cars, I did a great deal of "research"
>on the very common subject of argument with "car people": oil
>changes..
>best types/brands and frequency of change. As I've said, changing
>out factory oil in a new engine is not a bad idea at 5k miles. I also
>don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the
>event of future warranty work, which they are known for.

Ummm, Honda says NO. Change when called for. Back in "the good old
days" (when I drove a Ford with a Boss 351) changing the oil at 1000
miles post purchase was standard. But there aren't any "break in
oils" anymore.

What kind of oil do you plan to use? For years, I used GTX 20W-50 due
to the environment I was driving my Hondas in. Then a Honda mechanic
told me that they recommended 5W-30 and it turned out to be cheaper.


>
>> I however do not claim to be an expert, so, do as you wish it is after all
>> your money, it is however our planet and with any luck you will use a
>> dealership that properly recycles (under)used oil.
>
>I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me
>that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting.
>Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for
>at least higher I.Q's.
>
>>
>> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:90b8a7fc-bee5-4650-bb67-d4a8f27c6bfb@e38g2000prn.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 14, 10:39 pm, "Justbob30" <justbo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >> Here's an idea, let the maintenance minder do its job, it will tell you
>> >> based on several things which are monitored when service needs to be
>> >> done.
>>
>> > Uh yes, I know. *My question is about resetting after various service
>> > is done.
>>
>> >> Changing your oil at 5,000 miles is wasteful of both your money and a
>> >> natural resource. Depending on your driving conditions you may need to
>> >> change at 5k, maybe 10k but, maybe not, why waste? let go, let Honda :-).
>>
>> > I am actually quite an expert on the subject of oil changes, but I
>> > digress.
>> > I am a former BMW owner and always did my own service, but this
>> > Honda MM is new to me. * This 5k oil change is for the car's first
>> > off-the-assembly-line oil change. * The dealership thinks they are
>> > going to get to do the service work on the car and already has
>> > me scheduled for this initial 5k oil change--which is not a bad
>> > idea for any new car with factory oil in a brand new engine.
>> > But the popular myth of oil changes every 3k miles being
>> > a swell idea....it is overkill, and wasteful. 5-8k mile oil changes
>> > are the best window to shoot for for most drivers. *I'm not a big
>> > fan of going more than about 8500 miles on the same oil, synthetic
>> > or conventional.
>>
>> >> <rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> >>news:c6a0bf7d-26f1-4dc5-a57b-4b2b751ac6fb@1g2000prd.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> > I've just bought an 09 Accord. A couple of little questions please...
>>
>> >> > Never had a honda before. This Memory Minder that tells us when
>> >> > things need to be done, etc.... I've read the manual well, but one
>> >> > thing
>> >> > that isn't clear to me. Let's say I do my first oil change at 5k
>> >> > miles,
>> >> > and reset the Minder's oil indicator back to 100%. This of course
>> >> > should not effect the Minder's tracking of the other things that won't
>> >> > need to be done till later, right? I know this may seem dumb,
>> >> > but they don't cover this at all in the manual.
>>
>> >> > Let's say, on down the road, say at 20k miles or so, I get the little
>> >> > symbol that I need to change the air filter. After I change that,
>> >> > and reset the air filter tracking, I wouldn't want to also reset
>> >> > the oil change tracking without changing the oil, etc., etc.
>> >> > I assume that with one or more symbols lit on the cluster,
>> >> > I would be able to toggle to reset each one as I do the maintenance.
>> >> > Is this the way it works?
>>
>> >> > Also, I seem to have a minor steering wheel shimmy at around
>> >> > 60-65 mph. The car has new Michelins and the car only had
>> >> > 6 miles on it when I bought it. I wonder if those little air pressure
>> >> > sensors could present a wee bit of a problem for wheel balancing.
>> >> > Also, about these sensors in the tires, when the time comes
>> >> > for buying new tires, I assume they will just remove the things
>> >> > and put them in the new tires. Correct? Do some people just
>> >> > do away with these things after a while. I frankly don't need them
>> >> > myself as I always keep tabs on things like proper air pressure
>> >> > in my tires. We do like the car though, and hope to drive
>> >> > it a LONG time. Thanks for any good feedback.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> >> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -

Thus spake "Pszemol" <Pszemol@PolBox.com> :

><rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:928a3efb-5e2d-457b-965f-6e5e7b22fa66@t39g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> don't want to give the dealership ANY reason to try to weasel in the
>> event of future warranty work, which they are known for.
>
>So how are you going to prove that you have changed the oil?
>Traditional way was to show a copy of the invoice from the shop...
>In case of DIY, how do you do it?
>
>I change my oil or ATF and properly recycle it bringing used oil
>to local PepBoys shop but I wonder what troubles I am facing
>in case I will have contested warranty claim and warrantor
>wants to see all the proof of maintenance done on this car...
>Yes, I have purchased maintenance fluids, filters and kept
>the receipts, but from the legal point of view they proof only
>the fact I purchased these items. Statement can be made
>that I have actually never gone about doing these things and
>oil filter is still sitting on my garrage shelf :-)

Actually, by Federal law, they have to show that you voided the
warranty by not performing the maintenance. You don't have to prove
that you did the work.

>
>> I care very much about conservation and environment, but it amazes me
>> that no one here has understood my actual question about resetting.
>> Honda owners? I think I'll try some of the forums and hope for
>> at least higher I.Q's.
>
>I have 2004 without this feature and probably there is not many
>other group members with 2009 AND knowing how it works...
>
>I fully understant your question and I am also quite surprised
>with Elmo's answer :-) I alsodo not know how really does it work,
>we can only guess. As a computer engineer I can infer that if
>the whole "user interface" consists of holding the single button
>to reset the indicator IT MUST be done the way you reset
>each thing separatelly. Each managed item like the oil life, air
>filter, ATF would have its own maintenance period requirement
>and clearing the warning would affect only this particular item.
>As you probably agree it would be silly if changing the engine
>oil every 5-8k miles and reseting the minder would also clear
>the "timer" for the ATF or air filter.

You don't get a reminder for oil, and another one for air filter, and
another one for ATF, etc. You get a reminder with a set of items to
perform.

>
>In case you do some service which is not reported yet, so
>lets say you replace air filter before the air filter icon pops up
>on the screen, you as a user will not have the proper "user
>interface" to clear the minder. I am guessing clearing such
>thing before the indicator is there on the screen can be done
>only accessing the computer through the OBD-II connector
>if possible at all.

Probably.

>
>There is also another thing to think about... The state of the oil
>is not directly measured with any sensor - it is "calculated"
>using some routine based on the car usage... The same is
>probably done for ATF or air filter.

Yes. They say it's based on current and historic usage. I bought my
08 Fit on March 27th with 11 miles on it (when I did the test drive, I
put 9 miles on it). Today the MM is showing 10%, A1 service and 5535
miles. Nasty city/highway mix.

"Dillon Pyron" <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:slfdf496mr0nhe8am8g9irtn81eb2ap8q3@4ax.com...
> Thus spake rev_otis_mcnatt@yahoo.com :
>
>>On Oct 15, 5:46 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
>>wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <3760a18a-333a-4856-b3b7-e11477bf9...@u27g2000pro.googlegroups.com>,
>>>
>>> rev_otis_mcn...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>> > The manual
>>> > tells me how to reset the MM when the oil is changed, by holding down
>>> > the
>>> > button for 15 seconds or so. What happens later when other things
>>> > need
>>> > to be done that I get messages (symbols) for---change air filter,
>>> > plugs,
>>> > transmission fluid, etc.? I assume I will be able to toggle to reset
>>> > those
>>> > when that service is done, without of course affecting the Oil Life
>>> > tracking.
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> the MM tracks everything.
>>>
>>> Reset the MM, reset everything.
>>
>>So, you're telling me that when I change only the oil and reset the
>>MM, that
>>all the other maintenance item are also reset, even with the other
>>items
>>not being replaced/serviced? Do you think about what you write? Do
>>you even think?
>
> No. You'll get a notice that says you need, for istance (looking at
> my 08 Fit this morning) A1 service. Looking in the book, this is oil
> and rotate. Both of those can and will be done at home this weekend.
> But eventually other items will need to be done and these will pop up
> on their own, at their own schedule. But if you replace the air
> filter when its service interval comes along and don't do the oil,
> which should also be done at the same time, the oil interval will be
> reset.
>
> Perhaps you should read the manual. It's all called out in nice
> detail.

Nothing is going to pop up on its own independent of an oil change.

The Maintenance Minder system is oil change interval driven based on
"accumulated engine revolutions and operating conditions." Everything else
is done in conjunction with oil changes. You will not see a 1 thru 5
without an A or B.

Personal adjustment might be necessary for some things other than oil.
I follow the MM for my oil changes, but I always change the oil filter with
it.
Following the MM, my oil changes are every 7000 to 8000 miles so far, but I
like to rotate my tires every 5,000 miles.
I just changed my engine air filter with my 15,200 mile oil change because
it was dirty now, but I probably won't see a 2 code until the next oil
change.

I follow the A or B codes strictly, but I consider the 1 thru 5 numeric
codes as bare minimums if it has not been done already.

Remember that the computer really only "thinks" about oil life.

In article <slfdf496mr0nhe8am8g9irtn81eb2ap8q3@4ax.com>,
Dillon Pyron <invaliddmpyron@austin.rr.com> wrote:

> Perhaps you should read the manual. It's all called out in nice
> detail.

But didn't you read? He's a self taught EXPERT on such things. Why, he
knows more in his little finger than all the Honda engineers put
together. HE knows better.