Honda Car Forum

Let's set the record straight! I will quote extensively from Consumer
Reports of July 1996, "The surprising Truth about motor oils": "Modern
motor oils needn't be changed as often as oils did years ago. . .

Even in the severe driving conditions that a NYC taxi endures, we noted no
benefit from changing the oil

Every 3000 miles rather than every 6000 miles. . . we don't recommend
leaving any oil, synthetic or regular, in an engine for 12,000 miles,
because an accumulation contaminants-solids, acids, fuels, and water-could
eventually harm the engine." I think the study is scientifically accurate,
and Consumer Reports went to great lengths to do the tests-after all, their
credibility is at stake! This is what they did:

". . .For consistency, we used only 1992-93 Chevrolet Caprice Cabs. Each
received a precisely rebuilt 4.3 liter V6 at the beginning of its 60000 mile
test. . .a local shop completely machined each engine block and crankshaft,
rebuilt the cylinder heads, and installed new bearings, pistons, rings
seals, gaskets and oil pump. . .Over the next 22 months, our engineers paid
more than 100 calls. . .they dropped off test oils and picked up used-oil
samples for ongoing analysis. They also made sure the oil was being added
to the engines when necessary and changed as scheduled. After the
60,000-mile test, we remeasured the key engine parts. We also examined
combustion-chamber deposits, the color of valves, scoring cylinder walls,
and valve deck deposits for any sign of engine problems." Wake up
consumers, no one else has done an extensive study like this! Oil companies
, garages and auto manufacturers couldn't care less! I know many mechanics
that didn't even know of the study or even cared to read it. They're still
caught up in oldwives tales. It's time to rethink this! As a consumer you
have a right to protect your pocketbook against unscrupulous oil
manufactures, oil retailers, garages, etc. The truth is out there! Go seek
it!





"bandabee" <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw. ca...
> In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
> circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
>
> I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and salty
> roads n stuff.
>
> But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these days?
>
>

Valid only for taxicabs operating in New York City under the
specified conditions with the specified engines. Boston, Chicago,
Milwaukee, St. Paul and Toronto exhibit more extremes in climate (e.g. cold
starts) than New York City. How about taxi cabs in Houston, TX? I would
tend to agree with Consumer Report's conclusions but even synthetic oils
have improved a lot since that report was done seven years ago. Follow
manufacturer's warranty advice and A.P.I./MilSpec standards. Your
manufacturer validates your warranty, not C.U. Out-of-warranty .. . its
your gambit. I have a '90 Acura and an '85 Buick LeSabre that go 6,000
miles between changes regardless of time .. . on synthetic oil only.



"Harvey Loria" <Harvey.Loria@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:s%Ddb.39387$TM4.5169@pd7tw2no...
> Let's set the record straight! I will quote extensively from Consumer
> Reports of July 1996, "The surprising Truth about motor oils": "Modern
> motor oils needn't be changed as often as oils did years ago. . .
>
> Even in the severe driving conditions that a NYC taxi endures, we noted no
> benefit from changing the oil
>
> Every 3000 miles rather than every 6000 miles. . . we don't recommend
> leaving any oil, synthetic or regular, in an engine for 12,000 miles,
> because an accumulation contaminants-solids, acids, fuels, and water-could
> eventually harm the engine." I think the study is scientifically
accurate,
> and Consumer Reports went to great lengths to do the tests-after all,
their
> credibility is at stake! This is what they did:
>
> ". . .For consistency, we used only 1992-93 Chevrolet Caprice Cabs. Each
> received a precisely rebuilt 4.3 liter V6 at the beginning of its 60000
mile
> test. . .a local shop completely machined each engine block and
crankshaft,
> rebuilt the cylinder heads, and installed new bearings, pistons, rings
> seals, gaskets and oil pump. . .Over the next 22 months, our engineers
paid
> more than 100 calls. . .they dropped off test oils and picked up used-oil
> samples for ongoing analysis. They also made sure the oil was being added
> to the engines when necessary and changed as scheduled. After the
> 60,000-mile test, we remeasured the key engine parts. We also examined
> combustion-chamber deposits, the color of valves, scoring cylinder walls,
> and valve deck deposits for any sign of engine problems." Wake up
> consumers, no one else has done an extensive study like this! Oil
companies
> , garages and auto manufacturers couldn't care less! I know many
mechanics
> that didn't even know of the study or even cared to read it. They're
still
> caught up in oldwives tales. It's time to rethink this! As a consumer
you
> have a right to protect your pocketbook against unscrupulous oil
> manufactures, oil retailers, garages, etc. The truth is out there! Go
seek
> it!
>
>
>
>
>
> "bandabee" <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw. ca...
> > In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
> > circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
> >
> > I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and
salty
> > roads n stuff.
> >
> > But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these
days?
> >
> >
>
>

I can't resist anecdotal input. I understand that one case doesn't
prove anything, but here goes. My father gave me his old 1962
Studebaker Lark V6 Wagon in 1969. It had perhaps 80,000 miles and was
literally falling apart from rusting. (Remember the days when after
about 5 years there wasn't much left of cars?) Anyway, after the
installation of a new floor, I drove the car for another several
years, at which point it had about 140,000. Still ran great. I was in
my college years, broke, and never did any maintenance. I just put in
gas and oil and hoped for the best.

Finally, one day I decided to change the oil. I took it to a local
shop and they reported fairly startling news. There was no oil filter.
Their book suggested that sometime in 1962 Studebaker switched from a
canister type filter on the top of the engine to the now familiar
spin-on filter on the side. There were screw plugs in the channels
from the engine on top, but there wasn't any filter on the side. There
just wasn't a filter. So we changed the oil and the last I saw of the
car was when a friend bought from me and moved out of state when the
car had about 160,000. It was still running great.

go figure.

Pay me now or pay me later that's the bottom line. Is it worth saving a few
bucks to gamble on extended oil changes? As a mechanic I think more in terms
of mileage not time. Six months or 7500 miles is as far as I would push any
automobile. Synthetic Oil is superior by not a necessity, but in your case I
would advise you to use only synthetic oil.

My two cents

"Nino Nospam" <NOSPAM@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:MJzdb.26990$O85.19520@pd7tw1no...
> Consumer Reports did a scientific study on changing oil a few years ago.
> They studied taxi cabs in NYC. They even took the engines apart to check
> for wear and tear, and they compared name brand oils to no-name brands.
> Their results were surprising. Frequent oil changes, or synthetic oils
made
> little difference to performance or engine wear! Also, there were no
> significant differences between no-name brand oils and heavily advertised
> name brands. Finally, the only time frequent oil changes are really
> necessary--more than once a year-- is if you live in places with extreme
> climate changes such as Alaska, etc. It seems to me that the oil &
> automobile industry drives this panacea for frequent oil changes. Save
your
> money and the environment and change your oil once a year!
>
>
> "bandabee" <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw. ca...
> > In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
> > circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
> >
> > I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and
salty
> > roads n stuff.
> >
> > But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these
days?
> >
> >
>
>

In article <TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw.ca >,
"bandabee" <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and salty
> roads n stuff.

No, actually "extreme" in oil change speak means anything but a steady
diet of freeway driving. Which means everyone should use the "extreme"
schedule for oil changes.

In article <s%Ddb.39387$TM4.5169@pd7tw2no>,
"Harvey Loria" <Harvey.Loria@shaw.ca> wrote:

> Let's set the record straight! I will quote extensively from Consumer
> Reports of July 1996, "The surprising Truth about motor oils": "Modern
> motor oils needn't be changed as often as oils did years ago. . .
>
> Even in the severe driving conditions that a NYC taxi endures, we noted no
> benefit from changing the oil

I didn't think much of this study.

A NYC taxi is turned off oh, maybe once a day when they fuel it, so they
won't blow up the filling station with static from the car. It doesn't
have a chance to accumulate water in the oil, because the oil never
cools.

Jim Mowreader's Accord is started early in the morning, driven ten
miles, shut down for nine hours, restarted, driven ten miles, shut down
for an hour and a half, restarted and driven three miles, shut down for
six hours...you get the idea. Lots of stop-and-go, lots of idle time.
And they picked a car that is fairly easy on its oil--one with a big
V-6.

If I was designing the test, I wouldn't have used NYC cabs. I'd have
used Geo Metros (they have 1-litre 3-cylinder engines), and run the test
in Missoula, Montana, which is for Montana an urban area. Lots of
stop-and-go, plenty of "get on the Interstate and drive flat out"
activity, and a much harsher test of the oil. Either that, or use
motorcycles--their engine oil lubricates the gearbox too, hence the
viscosity improvers get a real torture test as they're run through the
heavy gearing.

After I bought our '03 Accord EX 5speed I called my mechanic...whom by
the way sold my '94 Accord EX with 285K miles for $500...which is what
the dealer was offering me as a trade-in value. Anyway, while I was
asking him if he wanted to buy it...he suggested I change the oil on
the new Accord at 650 miles and to not drive the engine hard. Reason:
Brand new engine will need all internal parts to set in. As it does
there will be debris, very small debris, that will come off. Some of
it will be traped in the oil filter but some will recycle into the
engine. This will in the long run cause engine damage. I did exactly
what he suggested...from there on he suggested every 3K miles.

I've learned to trust Dave, my mechanic. My Honda rarely...I mean
rarely needed to be repaired...except for the five sets of tires I went
thru, 4 sets of breaks, 2 sets of rotors, 2nd mufler install with
catalyc converter and some other major exhaust pipe that cost a
bundle.

And by the way...the oil change for the '03 Accord EX is more
expensive..it requires 5/20..or something like that....

Enought talk....


--
wolf00359
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted via RealCarAudio.com - The checkmate of the caraudio community.
http://www.RealCarAudio.com
wolf00359's Profile: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/m...fo&userid=2057
View this thread: http://www.realcaraudio.com/forums/s...?threadid=8757

"wolf00359" <wolf00359.vbngz@realcaraudio.com> wrote in message
news:wolf00359.vbngz@realcaraudio.com...
> he suggested I change the oil on
> the new Accord at 650 miles and to not drive the engine hard. Reason:
> Brand new engine will need all internal parts to set in. As it does
> there will be debris, very small debris, that will come off. Some of
> it will be traped in the oil filter but some will recycle into the
> engine. This will in the long run cause engine damage.

The minute debirs that floats around, suspended in oil is actualy doing a
job there. It helps polish out any rough surfaces in a brand new engine.
That's partly how the break-in takes place. And that's why it should be
left there for as long as Honda recommends to finish this job. Otherwise,
your engine will not be properly broken-in.


> I've learned to trust Dave, my mechanic.

Does Dave know more about this engine than Honda engineers that designed it?
Why would Honda suggest something that would "cause engine damage",
especially right at the beginning, when there is almost 3 full years of
warranty still remaining?


> And by the way...the oil change for the '03 Accord EX is more
> expensive..it requires 5/20..or something like that....

And? 5w-20 is no more expensive than other oil grades, unless you choose to
buy it from a Honda dealer of course.

Cheers,

Pete

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 03:44:45 GMT, wolf00359
<wolf00359.vbngz@realcaraudio.com> wrote:

>
>After I bought our '03 Accord EX 5speed I called my mechanic...whom by
>the way sold my '94 Accord EX with 285K miles for $500...which is what
>the dealer was offering me as a trade-in value. Anyway, while I was
>asking him if he wanted to buy it...he suggested I change the oil on
>the new Accord at 650 miles and to not drive the engine hard. Reason:
>Brand new engine will need all internal parts to set in. As it does
>there will be debris, very small debris, that will come off. Some of
>it will be traped in the oil filter but some will recycle into the
>engine. This will in the long run cause engine damage. I did exactly
>what he suggested...from there on he suggested every 3K miles.
>
>I've learned to trust Dave, my mechanic. My Honda rarely...I mean
>rarely needed to be repaired...except for the five sets of tires I went
>thru, 4 sets of breaks, 2 sets of rotors, 2nd mufler install with
>catalyc converter and some other major exhaust pipe that cost a
>bundle.
>
>And by the way...the oil change for the '03 Accord EX is more
>expensive..it requires 5/20..or something like that....
>
>Enought talk....

The Honda manual makes it clear that they strongly recommend that you
leave the initial oil in the engine for the specified interval. I've
heard from others in this group that there is a special break-in oil
in the car. I can't confirm that, but their specific instructions not
to do the first oil change until the right mileage would support that
notion. Note they don't just put the interval in the maintenance
chart. They specifically say not to do the first one early.

I'm glad you have a mechanic you trust and like. But why would you
assume that he knows more about how to properly break-in this engine
than the engineers that designed it? Why would Honda recommend so
strongly a first change approach if it was so obvious that it can
damage the engine?

Many of you may not believe the following, many more of you may think I am
crazy, but I am 50 years old, have owned 7 cars in the last 32 years, have
never owned a car that did not get at least 200,000 miles on it before I
traded it in, and in every single instance, after the first year of
ownership, never did I change the oil in any of them prior to at least
30,000 miles, if at least that little. Call me lucky? Call me crazy? Well, I
have always felt that if someone who wants to sell you oil, he will try and
sell you as much of it, and as often as he can talk you into it.