Honda Car Forum

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:14:24 GMT, "E. Meyer" <e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:

>On 9/20/03 10:54 AM, in article
>billbjohnson555-2009030854320001@pm2-broad-134.snlo.dialup.fix.net, "Bill B.
>Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw.ca >, "bandabee"
>> <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
>>> circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
>>>
>>> I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and salty
>>> roads n stuff.
>>>
>>> But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these days?
>>
>> If you plan to keep the vehicle for two years or less--you can have the
>> oil changed every 12 months.
>>
>> If you plan to keep the vehicle for more than 4 years--change the oil and
>> filter every 3000 miles.
>>
>> Change the transmission fluid and clean the filter every two years.
>>
>> Change the coolant every two years.
>
>
>Huh? Where do you get this stuff? It sounds like you're reading advice
>from Smokey in a Popular Science from about 1970.
>
>I would really like to see some actual data that shows a reduction in a
>modern car's usable life that was caused by following the manufacturer's
>published maintenance schedule. How about it? Anybody? Didn't think so.

Especially unlikely to be difference if the 7500 mile oil is synthetic
and the 300 mile is dino (except in the wallet where the 3000 mile
protocol costs more). 3000 mile changes with synthetic is silly.

Actually there HAVE been studies on the changing of oil, and it's interval.
Just do a websearch. Oil change intervals used to be 3k because the oils
would gunk the engines, and the tolerances would get out of whack with the
increased pressures. Nowawdays, the oils and fuels have detergents. And
this is natural oil. In fact, my Owners Manual for my 1988 Accord LXi
recommends 7,500 mile interval. Synthetics weren't popular then. One brand
in particular who advertised longer intervals is Amsoil. They make
synthetics. If memory serves me, the interval is 25,000 miles.
"DH" <upyoursspam@cox.net> wrote in message
news:upyoursspam-7680D2.11483421092003@news.east.cox.net...
> In article
> <billbjohnson555-2009030854320001@pm2-broad-134.snlo.dialup.fix.net>,
> billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com (Bill B. Johnson) wrote:
>
> > In article <TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw.ca >, "bandabee"
> > <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> > > In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
> > > circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
> > >
> > > I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and
salty
> > > roads n stuff.
> > >
> > > But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these
days?
> >
> > If you plan to keep the vehicle for two years or less--you can have the
> > oil changed every 12 months.
> >
> > If you plan to keep the vehicle for more than 4 years--change the oil
and
> > filter every 3000 miles.
> >
> > Change the transmission fluid and clean the filter every two years.
> >
> > Change the coolant every two years.
>
> 3K oil changes are ridiculous, do it every 5k or twice a yeark,
> whichever comes first.

In article <xl3bb.73012$PD3.4763776@nnrp1.uunet.ca>, "Brian Smith"
<Halifax@NovaScotia.Canada> wrote:

> "Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:billbjohnson555-2009030854320001@pm2-broad-134.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
> >
> > If you plan to keep the vehicle for more than 4 years--change the oil and
> > filter every 3000 miles.
> >
> > Change the transmission fluid and clean the filter every two years.
> >
> > Change the coolant every two years.
>
> You forgot to mention changing the brake fluid every two years, as well.

good point

"Bill B. Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:billbjohnson555-2209031147350001@pm3-broad-248.snlo.dialup.fix.net...
>
> good point

Thank you. I make a point of changing every fluid in my vehicles, fluids
breakdown and lose their usefulness. Changing them can only lengthen the
vehicles life. And, the cost of these changes are certainly small in
comparison to the possible consequences of ignoring them.

--
Brian
www.accesswave.ca/~orion

In article <BB921F50.15D8D%e.meyer@ieee.org>, "E. Meyer"
<e.meyer@ieee.org> wrote:

> On 9/20/03 10:54 AM, in article
> billbjohnson555-2009030854320001@pm2...dialup.fix.net, "Bill B.
> Johnson" <billbjohnson555@nospamhotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > In article <TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw.ca >, "bandabee"
> > <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
> >> circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
> >>
> >> I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and salty
> >> roads n stuff.
> >>
> >> But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these days?
> >
> > If you plan to keep the vehicle for two years or less--you can have the
> > oil changed every 12 months.
> >
> > If you plan to keep the vehicle for more than 4 years--change the oil and
> > filter every 3000 miles.
> >
> > Change the transmission fluid and clean the filter every two years.
> >
> > Change the coolant every two years.
>
>
> Huh? Where do you get this stuff? It sounds like you're reading advice
> from Smokey in a Popular Science from about 1970.
>
> I would really like to see some actual data that shows a reduction in a
> modern car's usable life that was caused by following the manufacturer's
> published maintenance schedule. How about it? Anybody? Didn't think so.

You are right. I don't have any data from some magazine or owner's manual.
I just know some basic facts about fluids used in vehicles. I once changed
my oil and transmission fluid on a regular basis. I admit that I have
never changed brake fluid and have hired mechanics to do that chore. I
closely examined the fluids and found metal fragments and other stuff that
I could not identify in those fluids. I recall reading (I don't remember
the source) that those metal fragments can cause damage to various engine
parts. That's why I follow the conservative mait. schedule mentioned
above. You can do what you like. If you only plan to keep a new vehicle
three years or less--it's okay to follow the maint. schedule in the
owner's manual. I plan to keep my Honda Accord 5 or more years.

Consumer Reports did a scientific study on changing oil a few years ago.
They studied taxi cabs in NYC. They even took the engines apart to check
for wear and tear, and they compared name brand oils to no-name brands.
Their results were surprising. Frequent oil changes, or synthetic oils made
little difference to performance or engine wear! Also, there were no
significant differences between no-name brand oils and heavily advertised
name brands. Finally, the only time frequent oil changes are really
necessary--more than once a year-- is if you live in places with extreme
climate changes such as Alaska, etc. It seems to me that the oil &
automobile industry drives this panacea for frequent oil changes. Save your
money and the environment and change your oil once a year!


"bandabee" <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw. ca...
> In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
> circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
>
> I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and salty
> roads n stuff.
>
> But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these days?
>
>

On 9/28/2003 6:37 AM Nino Nospam spake these words of knowledge:

> "bandabee" <banXdabee@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:TScab.975769$ro6.19281738@news2.calgary.shaw. ca...
>> In the manual, it says change once every 12 months under normal
>> circumstances, once every 6 months under extreme circumstances.
>>
>> I'm guessing extreme means if u live in places with lots of snow and
salty
>> roads n stuff.
>>
>> But, once a year oil change?!?! Is that wut new cars are like these
days?

> Consumer Reports did a scientific study on changing oil a few years ago.
> They studied taxi cabs in NYC. They even took the engines apart to check
> for wear and tear, and they compared name brand oils to no-name brands.
> Their results were surprising. Frequent oil changes, or synthetic oils made
> little difference to performance or engine wear! Also, there were no
> significant differences between no-name brand oils and heavily advertised
> name brands. Finally, the only time frequent oil changes are really
> necessary--more than once a year-- is if you live in places with extreme
> climate changes such as Alaska, etc. It seems to me that the oil &
> automobile industry drives this panacea for frequent oil changes. Save your
> money and the environment and change your oil once a year!
>
>

What they found was that there were not significant differences in the
wear of the engines when the oil was changed at 3000 mile intervals vs.
6000 mile intervals.

For some small percentage of people, this may translate into a year's
driving, but damn few.

Also, the Consumer Reports study didn't test and didn't show the
condition of the oil as a result of natural exposure to oxidation and
chemical reaction over the course of a year; NYC cabs do 6000 miles in a
matter of weeks.

Your conclusion is unwarranted, and gives fuel to others in this forum
who don't wish to understand the format and composure of Consumer
Reports testing processes.


RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
I tried an internal modem, but it hurt when I walked.

"Dave Kelsen" <kelsen@elmore.rr.com> wrote in message
news:WxAdb.40216$Ci5.1043533@twister.tampabay.rr.c om...

> What they found was that there were not significant differences in the
> wear of the engines when the oil was changed at 3000 mile intervals vs.
> 6000 mile intervals.
>
> For some small percentage of people, this may translate into a year's
> driving, but damn few.
>
> Also, the Consumer Reports study didn't test and didn't show the
> condition of the oil as a result of natural exposure to oxidation and
> chemical reaction over the course of a year; NYC cabs do 6000 miles in a
> matter of weeks.

And they sure as hell don't do *that* kind of mileage with a lot of cold
starts!

"Nino Nospam" <NOSPAM@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:MJzdb.26990$O85.19520@pd7tw1no...
> Consumer Reports did a scientific study on changing oil a few years ago.
> They studied taxi cabs in NYC. They even took the engines apart to check
> for wear and tear, and they compared name brand oils to no-name brands.
> Their results were surprising. Frequent oil changes, or synthetic oils
made
> little difference to performance or engine wear! Also, there were no
> significant differences between no-name brand oils and heavily advertised
> name brands. Finally, the only time frequent oil changes are really
> necessary--more than once a year-- is if you live in places with extreme
> climate changes such as Alaska, etc. It seems to me that the oil &
> automobile industry drives this panacea for frequent oil changes. Save
your
> money and the environment and change your oil once a year!

This test by Consumers Reports is inherently flawed.

The taxi cabs are never shut down except for maintenance,and run 24/7 ,there
by maintaining constant engine temperature so that no acids and h2o can
develop in the engine oil.

A more comprehensive and true test would have been to use commuter cars that
are started up twice a day in all kinds of weather , winter and summer and
then come back with a report.

We all know that 95% of engine wear occurs on COLD start-up. and by cold I
mean as cold as -30*F here in sourthern Ontario, in the winter.

This would have been a much more honest test of everyday driving conditions.

I consider the Consumers Report Test on taxi cabs to be nothing more than
smoke and mirrors, for whatever reason.
ed/ontario

On 9/28/2003 8:35 AM xxxxxxxx spake these words of knowledge:

> "Nino Nospam" <NOSPAM@shaw.ca> wrote in message
> news:MJzdb.26990$O85.19520@pd7tw1no...
>> Consumer Reports did a scientific study on changing oil a few years ago.
>> They studied taxi cabs in NYC. They even took the engines apart to check
>> for wear and tear, and they compared name brand oils to no-name brands.
>> Their results were surprising. Frequent oil changes, or synthetic oils
> made
>> little difference to performance or engine wear! Also, there were no
>> significant differences between no-name brand oils and heavily advertised
>> name brands. Finally, the only time frequent oil changes are really
>> necessary--more than once a year-- is if you live in places with extreme
>> climate changes such as Alaska, etc. It seems to me that the oil &
>> automobile industry drives this panacea for frequent oil changes. Save
> your
>> money and the environment and change your oil once a year!
>
> This test by Consumers Reports is inherently flawed.
>
> The taxi cabs are never shut down except for maintenance,and run 24/7 ,there
> by maintaining constant engine temperature so that no acids and h2o can
> develop in the engine oil.

Nonsense. Although many cabs run 14-16 hours per day, virtually no one
drives 24/7, even cabbies in NYC. Use a bit of common sense. Nor were
they doing so for the Consumer Reports testing.

This test was not flawed, by the way. It didn't test or address every
aspect of lubrication and maintenance, but it wasn't intended to.


> A more comprehensive and true test would have been to use commuter cars that
> are started up twice a day in all kinds of weather , winter and summer and
> then come back with a report.

And people would have pointed out that stop-and-go traffic is very hard
on engines and would make a better test. Not necessarily so, of course.
The cars were not run 24/7, but were used by actually cabbies in the
execution of their normal duties. I do not recall the time frame of the
test, but it seems to me that it covered at least 50,000 miles. This
would quite possibly have included a fair variety of weather patterns.


> We all know that 95% of engine wear occurs on COLD start-up. and by cold I
> mean as cold as -30*F here in sourthern Ontario, in the winter.

Actually, we don't all know that. This is probably true for those
drivers who take mostly short trips, like going to work from homes not
too far away - and this may be a majority of drivers.
>
> This would have been a much more honest test of everyday driving conditions.

Not for cabbies. For me, for example, a different test would have been
more applicable, as I drive 80 miles each way to work, each day. Not
the stress and strain of starting and stopping, sudden acceleration and
braking of the cabs, but also not the 5 mile trip to the office.

Again, the test was not comprehensive. Neither was it dishonest.


> I consider the Consumers Report Test on taxi cabs to be nothing more than
> smoke and mirrors, for whatever reason.

Like Nino, you have chosen to draw conclusions not based on the facts -
"for whatever reason". Your choice, of course.

RFT!!!
Dave Kelsen
--
If there's one thing I can't stand, it's intolerance.