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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2008, 04:38 pm
Forrest
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Default Use of sealer on head gasket?

Well, I got my new head gasket from the local Honda dealer after a few days
wait. It had a big dent in it, about a quarter inch from one of the coolant
ports. Told the guy that after all of the work that I've been through, I
wanted a smooth one. He reordered and I got it yesterday. This one has a few
small scratches but looks OK. I guess I'll be ready to start reassembly
tomorrow. I cleaned up the head's surface and got all of the cooked on crud
off of the valves' surface as well as the head's combustion chamber. Cleaned
the tops of the pistons too. I'm not having a valve job done or having it
skimmed. As far as I can tell, using a level, the block and head aren't
warped. Now, I haven't heard anybody mention using gasket sealer on the head
gasket so I guess you don't. Is that correct? I figure I better ask now
before it's too late.

Talk about heat and time damage to rubber parts .... the PCV valve, rubber
holder, was so brittle that it just broke off like a piece of plastic. Got a
new one of those. A few of the rubber "O" rings were in the same condition.
If you had a piece of it in your hand, you would think that it was, indeed,
plastic.

Anywhoooo ... sealer or not, on the head gasket?

Thanks,
Forrest


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2008, 05:55 pm
Forrest
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Default Re: Use of sealer on head gasket?


"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%iByk.194$YU2.50@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
> Well, I got my new head gasket from the local Honda dealer after a few
> days wait. It had a big dent in it, about a quarter inch from one of the
> coolant ports. Told the guy that after all of the work that I've been
> through, I wanted a smooth one. He reordered and I got it yesterday. This
> one has a few small scratches but looks OK. I guess I'll be ready to start
> reassembly tomorrow. I cleaned up the head's surface and got all of the
> cooked on crud off of the valves' surface as well as the head's combustion
> chamber. Cleaned the tops of the pistons too. I'm not having a valve job
> done or having it skimmed. As far as I can tell, using a level, the block
> and head aren't warped. Now, I haven't heard anybody mention using gasket
> sealer on the head gasket so I guess you don't. Is that correct? I
> figure I better ask now before it's too late.
>
> Talk about heat and time damage to rubber parts .... the PCV valve, rubber
> holder, was so brittle that it just broke off like a piece of plastic. Got
> a new one of those. A few of the rubber "O" rings were in the same
> condition. If you had a piece of it in your hand, you would think that it
> was, indeed, plastic.
>
> Anywhoooo ... sealer or not, on the head gasket?
>
> Thanks,
> Forrest



I guess, while I'm at it, I should ask about the intake manifold connection
to the head. That, I assume, does get gasket sealer. I have about three
types. One is : Permatex "Indian Head" gasket shellac compound. Permatex
"Super High Tack gasket sealant" and the other is : Pro Seal "Red hi-temp
RTV silicone Instant Gasket", which says is O2 sensor safe.

One other question, while I'm at it, is about the flange that the PCV rubber
tube goes over. Mine feels like plastic and fits a bit loosely. It turns
easily in the hole that it's in. It seams that air could leak around it. Is
that supposed to be an air-tight fit? I don't see as how it can be removed
without destroying it. Is that another rubber part that has turned to
plastic hardness or what? Should I clean it up with some solvent and then
silicone around it, after getting the rubber PCV tube clamped over it?


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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2008, 06:18 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of sealer on head gasket?

"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:%iByk.194$YU2.50@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:

> Well, I got my new head gasket from the local Honda dealer after a few
> days wait. It had a big dent in it, about a quarter inch from one of
> the coolant ports. Told the guy that after all of the work that I've
> been through, I wanted a smooth one. He reordered and I got it
> yesterday. This one has a few small scratches but looks OK. I guess
> I'll be ready to start reassembly tomorrow. I cleaned up the head's
> surface and got all of the cooked on crud off of the valves' surface
> as well as the head's combustion chamber.




Make sure you vacuum out ALL the hard carbon pieces and dust. ALL of it. It
would have been better had you left the combustion chamber and pistons
alone. That hard carbon is /very/ abrasive and the chips will chew up your
rings in no time.




> Cleaned the tops of the
> pistons too. I'm not having a valve job done or having it skimmed. As
> far as I can tell, using a level, the block and head aren't warped.



A construction level is not precise enough. You need a machinist's
straightedge that is accurate to .001".



> Now, I haven't heard anybody mention using gasket sealer on the head
> gasket so I guess you don't. Is that correct? I figure I better ask
> now before it's too late.




That is one million percent correct. The block and head surfaces should be
perfectly clean and dry. And I mean /perfectly/.




--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2008, 06:24 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of sealer on head gasket?

"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:PrCyk.189$ZP4.66@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:


>
>
> I guess, while I'm at it, I should ask about the intake manifold
> connection to the head. That, I assume, does get gasket sealer.





NO! No sealant! Did you find any on the one you took off?

It is a very bad idea to embark on projects like this without a proper
Honda shop manual. You did not need to detach the manifolds when removing
the head.




> I
> have about three types. One is : Permatex "Indian Head" gasket shellac
> compound. Permatex "Super High Tack gasket sealant" and the other is
> : Pro Seal "Red hi-temp RTV silicone Instant Gasket", which says is O2
> sensor safe.
>
> One other question, while I'm at it, is about the flange that the PCV
> rubber tube goes over. Mine feels like plastic and fits a bit loosely.
> It turns easily in the hole that it's in. It seams that air could leak
> around it. Is that supposed to be an air-tight fit? I don't see as how
> it can be removed without destroying it. Is that another rubber part
> that has turned to plastic hardness or what? Should I clean it up with
> some solvent and then silicone around it, after getting the rubber PCV
> tube clamped over it?




It's fine; leave it alone. You're going to have enough problems as it is.



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2008, 06:39 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of sealer on head gasket?

Forrest wrote:
> Well, I got my new head gasket from the local Honda dealer after a few days
> wait. It had a big dent in it, about a quarter inch from one of the coolant
> ports. Told the guy that after all of the work that I've been through, I
> wanted a smooth one. He reordered and I got it yesterday. This one has a few
> small scratches but looks OK. I guess I'll be ready to start reassembly
> tomorrow. I cleaned up the head's surface and got all of the cooked on crud
> off of the valves' surface as well as the head's combustion chamber. Cleaned
> the tops of the pistons too. I'm not having a valve job done or having it
> skimmed. As far as I can tell, using a level, the block and head aren't
> warped. Now, I haven't heard anybody mention using gasket sealer on the head
> gasket so I guess you don't. Is that correct? I figure I better ask now
> before it's too late.


correct - the honda gasket has its own sealants.


>
> Talk about heat and time damage to rubber parts .... the PCV valve, rubber
> holder, was so brittle that it just broke off like a piece of plastic. Got a
> new one of those. A few of the rubber "O" rings were in the same condition.
> If you had a piece of it in your hand, you would think that it was, indeed,
> plastic.
>
> Anywhoooo ... sealer or not, on the head gasket?
>
> Thanks,
> Forrest
>
>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2008, 06:45 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of sealer on head gasket?

Forrest wrote:
> "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%iByk.194$YU2.50@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com...
>> Well, I got my new head gasket from the local Honda dealer after a few
>> days wait. It had a big dent in it, about a quarter inch from one of the
>> coolant ports. Told the guy that after all of the work that I've been
>> through, I wanted a smooth one. He reordered and I got it yesterday. This
>> one has a few small scratches but looks OK. I guess I'll be ready to start
>> reassembly tomorrow. I cleaned up the head's surface and got all of the
>> cooked on crud off of the valves' surface as well as the head's combustion
>> chamber. Cleaned the tops of the pistons too. I'm not having a valve job
>> done or having it skimmed. As far as I can tell, using a level, the block
>> and head aren't warped. Now, I haven't heard anybody mention using gasket
>> sealer on the head gasket so I guess you don't. Is that correct? I
>> figure I better ask now before it's too late.
>>
>> Talk about heat and time damage to rubber parts .... the PCV valve, rubber
>> holder, was so brittle that it just broke off like a piece of plastic. Got
>> a new one of those. A few of the rubber "O" rings were in the same
>> condition. If you had a piece of it in your hand, you would think that it
>> was, indeed, plastic.
>>
>> Anywhoooo ... sealer or not, on the head gasket?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Forrest

>
>
> I guess, while I'm at it, I should ask about the intake manifold connection
> to the head. That, I assume, does get gasket sealer. I have about three
> types. One is : Permatex "Indian Head" gasket shellac compound. Permatex
> "Super High Tack gasket sealant" and the other is : Pro Seal "Red hi-temp
> RTV silicone Instant Gasket", which says is O2 sensor safe.


nope, if you're using honda gaskets, no sealant.


>
> One other question, while I'm at it, is about the flange that the PCV rubber
> tube goes over. Mine feels like plastic and fits a bit loosely. It turns
> easily in the hole that it's in. It seams that air could leak around it. Is
> that supposed to be an air-tight fit? I don't see as how it can be removed
> without destroying it. Is that another rubber part that has turned to
> plastic hardness or what? Should I clean it up with some solvent and then
> silicone around it, after getting the rubber PCV tube clamped over it?



there should be a rubber grommet below it - that should be replaced,
then it will fit properly again. clean it all up and you'll see.

all the rubber degradation problems you describe are typical of poor
quality engine oil being allowed to accumulate too much crud and get its
chemistry munged. use good oil and change to an appropriate schedule.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 12 Sep 2008, 06:51 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Use of sealer on head gasket?

Tegger wrote:
> "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:%iByk.194$YU2.50@nlpi066.nbdc.sbc.com:
>
>> Well, I got my new head gasket from the local Honda dealer after a few
>> days wait. It had a big dent in it, about a quarter inch from one of
>> the coolant ports. Told the guy that after all of the work that I've
>> been through, I wanted a smooth one. He reordered and I got it
>> yesterday. This one has a few small scratches but looks OK. I guess
>> I'll be ready to start reassembly tomorrow. I cleaned up the head's
>> surface and got all of the cooked on crud off of the valves' surface
>> as well as the head's combustion chamber.

>
>
>
> Make sure you vacuum out ALL the hard carbon pieces and dust. ALL of it. It
> would have been better had you left the combustion chamber and pistons
> alone. That hard carbon is /very/ abrasive and the chips will chew up your
> rings in no time.
>
>
>
>
>> Cleaned the tops of the
>> pistons too. I'm not having a valve job done or having it skimmed. As
>> far as I can tell, using a level, the block and head aren't warped.

>
>
> A construction level is not precise enough. You need a machinist's
> straightedge that is accurate to .001".


if the level is new, they're usually more than good enough. besides, a
head warped only one thou is not worth re-machining.


>
>
>
>> Now, I haven't heard anybody mention using gasket sealer on the head
>> gasket so I guess you don't. Is that correct? I figure I better ask
>> now before it's too late.

>
>
>
> That is one million percent correct. The block and head surfaces should be
> perfectly clean and dry. And I mean /perfectly/.
>
>
>
>

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