Honda Car Forum

The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with auto
trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it. The problem
is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to advance to the red
timing mark, where it used to be. I did this job once, several years ago and
didn't have any problems. I positioned the cam sprocket with the "up" mark
up and the little mark on each side even with the top of the head. I have
the crank at TDC. I made sure of it by checking the #1 piston's travel. The
flywheel, or whatever it is that has the marks, has, from retard side to
advance side, a hash mark and a "T" next to it. That checks out as TDC.
After that, there is about a half inch gap and then, what looks like the
letter (G) .. another gap and then about 4 hash marks with the middle one
red. After the red one is, what looks like the number "5". I assume that the
one to the left of the red is the number "1", making it (15), for the number
of degrease that it's supposed to be set before TDC. Anywhoo ... I can't
get it to advance past the (G) looking mark which is way before the red one.
I tore it back apart and rechecked the cam sprocket and the TDC mark ...
they are OK.

The procedure, according to the "Haynes" book, for setting ignition timing
is to disconnect and plug the two vacuum hoses that go to the advance and
then set it to 15 BTDC, reconnect the hoses and you're good to go. That's
how I did it last time. Don't know why I can't duplicate it.

I got a hold of an Accord service manual and it tells you to set it at 4
BTDC with the hoses disconnected and plugged. There is no 4 degree mark. I
guess supposedly, it's supposed to go to 15 after rehooking the vac advance?
I replaced the vac advance a few years ago. I just checked it and it holds,
with vac pump on either connection. It also mentions how to check for vacuum
from the hoses and suggests that if not there, it might be a problem with
the "Ignition control solenoid valve". To check that you are supposed to
have the engine running and warmed up. Anyway, I have it torn apart with
belt on and if I have to adjust the belt, now's the time.

It seems like, to be able to do it the Haynes way, I would have to move the
belt a tooth. That's the only way I'll be able to get it to advance the ign.
timing to 15 BTDC. Any help or thoughts on this would be greatly
appreciated. Thanks in advance

Forrest wrote:
> The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with auto
> trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it. The problem
> is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to advance to the red
> timing mark, where it used to be.

then you have the cam timing wrong. you need to re-time it.

jim beam wrote:
> Forrest wrote:
>> The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with
>> auto trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it.
>> The problem is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to
>> advance to the red timing mark, where it used to be.
>
> then you have the cam timing wrong. you need to re-time it.

-----------------

Yep, and changing the ignition timing doesn't fix the real problem . .
Sorry.

'Curly'

"motsco_" <motsco_@interbaun.com> wrote in message
news:WYidneggmv9creXVnZ2dnUVZ_tPinZ2d@posted.unise rvecommunications...
> jim beam wrote:
>> Forrest wrote:
>>> The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with
>>> auto trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it. The
>>> problem is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to advance to
>>> the red timing mark, where it used to be.
>>
>> then you have the cam timing wrong. you need to re-time it.
>
> -----------------
>
> Yep, and changing the ignition timing doesn't fix the real problem . .
> Sorry.
>
> 'Curley

Thanks for the reply, but I'm not trying to change the timing to fix the
problem. I have the cam sprocket aligned using the two dots, one on each
side, that are supposed to be even with the top of the head. I used a 1 inch
wide putty knife ...... laid it down flat on the head surface and against
each mark. I got them exactly even with the top of the head. I used a
homemade manometer to check for TDC on #1 cyl, and it lined up with the mark
on the flywheel. So, it's set properly, according to the Haynes book. The
way I see it is, that I have to move a tooth over to be able to get any more
advancement on the ignition timing. Now, one tooth on the crank equals two
on the cam .... or .......... try one on the cam, or ... is it the same ...?
If it's all aligned ... and it is. Why the problem?

On Jul 11, 9:07 pm, "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with auto
> trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it. The problem
> is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to advance to the red
> timing mark, where it used to be. I did this job once, several years ago and
> didn't have any problems. I positioned the cam sprocket with the "up" mark
> up and the little mark on each side even with the top of the head. I have
> the crank at TDC. I made sure of it by checking the #1 piston's travel. The
> flywheel, or whatever it is that has the marks, has, from retard side to
> advance side, a hash mark and a "T" next to it. That checks out as TDC.
> After that, there is about a half inch gap and then, what looks like the
> letter (G) .. another gap and then about 4 hash marks with the middle one
> red. After the red one is, what looks like the number "5". I assume that the
> one to the left of the red is the number "1", making it (15), for the number
> of degrease that it's supposed to be set before TDC. Anywhoo ... I can't
> get it to advance past the (G) looking mark which is way before the red one.
> I tore it back apart and rechecked the cam sprocket and the TDC mark ...
> they are OK.
>
> The procedure, according to the "Haynes" book, for setting ignition timing
> is to disconnect and plug the two vacuum hoses that go to the advance and
> then set it to 15 BTDC, reconnect the hoses and you're good to go. That's
> how I did it last time. Don't know why I can't duplicate it.
>
> I got a hold of an Accord service manual and it tells you to set it at 4
> BTDC with the hoses disconnected and plugged. There is no 4 degree mark. I
> guess supposedly, it's supposed to go to 15 after rehooking the vac advance?
> I replaced the vac advance a few years ago. I just checked it and it holds,
> with vac pump on either connection. It also mentions how to check for vacuum
> from the hoses and suggests that if not there, it might be a problem with
> the "Ignition control solenoid valve". To check that you are supposed to
> have the engine running and warmed up. Anyway, I have it torn apart with
> belt on and if I have to adjust the belt, now's the time.
>
> It seems like, to be able to do it the Haynes way, I would have to move the
> belt a tooth. That's the only way I'll be able to get it to advance the ign.
> timing to 15 BTDC. Any help or thoughts on this would be greatly
> appreciated. Thanks in advance


after initial installation of the belt, you must rotate the crankshaft
counter-clockwise to check the cam timing
tighten the tensioner and re-check the timing

good luck

<bi241@scn.org> wrote in message
news:007aa057-fec6-454e-a205-b5284ae1f5af@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
> On Jul 11, 9:07 pm, "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with auto
>> trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it. The
>> problem
>> is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to advance to the red
>> timing mark, where it used to be. I did this job once, several years ago
>> and
>> didn't have any problems. I positioned the cam sprocket with the "up"
>> mark
>> up and the little mark on each side even with the top of the head. I have
>> the crank at TDC. I made sure of it by checking the #1 piston's travel.
>> The
>> flywheel, or whatever it is that has the marks, has, from retard side to
>> advance side, a hash mark and a "T" next to it. That checks out as TDC.
>> After that, there is about a half inch gap and then, what looks like the
>> letter (G) .. another gap and then about 4 hash marks with the middle one
>> red. After the red one is, what looks like the number "5". I assume that
>> the
>> one to the left of the red is the number "1", making it (15), for the
>> number
>> of degrease that it's supposed to be set before TDC. Anywhoo ... I can't
>> get it to advance past the (G) looking mark which is way before the red
>> one.
>> I tore it back apart and rechecked the cam sprocket and the TDC mark ...
>> they are OK.
>>
>> The procedure, according to the "Haynes" book, for setting ignition
>> timing
>> is to disconnect and plug the two vacuum hoses that go to the advance and
>> then set it to 15 BTDC, reconnect the hoses and you're good to go. That's
>> how I did it last time. Don't know why I can't duplicate it.
>>
>> I got a hold of an Accord service manual and it tells you to set it at 4
>> BTDC with the hoses disconnected and plugged. There is no 4 degree mark.
>> I
>> guess supposedly, it's supposed to go to 15 after rehooking the vac
>> advance?
>> I replaced the vac advance a few years ago. I just checked it and it
>> holds,
>> with vac pump on either connection. It also mentions how to check for
>> vacuum
>> from the hoses and suggests that if not there, it might be a problem with
>> the "Ignition control solenoid valve". To check that you are supposed to
>> have the engine running and warmed up. Anyway, I have it torn apart with
>> belt on and if I have to adjust the belt, now's the time.
>>
>> It seems like, to be able to do it the Haynes way, I would have to move
>> the
>> belt a tooth. That's the only way I'll be able to get it to advance the
>> ign.
>> timing to 15 BTDC. Any help or thoughts on this would be greatly
>> appreciated. Thanks in advance
>
>
> after initial installation of the belt, you must rotate the crankshaft
> counter-clockwise to check the cam timing
> tighten the tensioner and re-check the timing
>
> good luck

Been there, done that. I even drove it around before taking it apart again.
All marks line up, while turning the crank in the running direction, which
tensions the belt properly, and still can't turn the distributor enough,
toward the advance direction, to set the ignition timing to the red 15
degree mark. It maxes out about half way between TDC and the red mark.

Forrest wrote:
> <bi241@scn.org> wrote in message
> news:007aa057-fec6-454e-a205-b5284ae1f5af@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>> On Jul 11, 9:07 pm, "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforre...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with auto
>>> trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it. The
>>> problem
>>> is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to advance to the red
>>> timing mark, where it used to be. I did this job once, several years ago
>>> and
>>> didn't have any problems. I positioned the cam sprocket with the "up"
>>> mark
>>> up and the little mark on each side even with the top of the head. I have
>>> the crank at TDC. I made sure of it by checking the #1 piston's travel.
>>> The
>>> flywheel, or whatever it is that has the marks, has, from retard side to
>>> advance side, a hash mark and a "T" next to it. That checks out as TDC.
>>> After that, there is about a half inch gap and then, what looks like the
>>> letter (G) .. another gap and then about 4 hash marks with the middle one
>>> red. After the red one is, what looks like the number "5". I assume that
>>> the
>>> one to the left of the red is the number "1", making it (15), for the
>>> number
>>> of degrease that it's supposed to be set before TDC. Anywhoo ... I can't
>>> get it to advance past the (G) looking mark which is way before the red
>>> one.
>>> I tore it back apart and rechecked the cam sprocket and the TDC mark ...
>>> they are OK.
>>>
>>> The procedure, according to the "Haynes" book, for setting ignition
>>> timing
>>> is to disconnect and plug the two vacuum hoses that go to the advance and
>>> then set it to 15 BTDC, reconnect the hoses and you're good to go. That's
>>> how I did it last time. Don't know why I can't duplicate it.
>>>
>>> I got a hold of an Accord service manual and it tells you to set it at 4
>>> BTDC with the hoses disconnected and plugged. There is no 4 degree mark.
>>> I
>>> guess supposedly, it's supposed to go to 15 after rehooking the vac
>>> advance?
>>> I replaced the vac advance a few years ago. I just checked it and it
>>> holds,
>>> with vac pump on either connection. It also mentions how to check for
>>> vacuum
>>> from the hoses and suggests that if not there, it might be a problem with
>>> the "Ignition control solenoid valve". To check that you are supposed to
>>> have the engine running and warmed up. Anyway, I have it torn apart with
>>> belt on and if I have to adjust the belt, now's the time.
>>>
>>> It seems like, to be able to do it the Haynes way, I would have to move
>>> the
>>> belt a tooth. That's the only way I'll be able to get it to advance the
>>> ign.
>>> timing to 15 BTDC. Any help or thoughts on this would be greatly
>>> appreciated. Thanks in advance
>>
>> after initial installation of the belt, you must rotate the crankshaft
>> counter-clockwise to check the cam timing
>> tighten the tensioner and re-check the timing
>>
>> good luck
>
> Been there, done that. I even drove it around before taking it apart again.
> All marks line up, while turning the crank in the running direction, which
> tensions the belt properly, and still can't turn the distributor enough,
> toward the advance direction, to set the ignition timing to the red 15
> degree mark. It maxes out about half way between TDC and the red mark.
>
>

then you're either timing to the wrong mark, or your timing light is set
wrong. done right, the marks absolutely line up, absolutely 100% of the
time.

On Jul 13, 5:08 pm, "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> <bi...@scn.org> wrote in message
>
> news:007aa057-fec6-454e-a205-b5284ae1f5af@26g2000hsk.googlegroups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 11, 9:07 pm, "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforre...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The timing belt went on my 89 Accord SEI. It's the 2 liter SOHC with auto
> >> trans. No damage to pistons or valves and put a new one on it. The
> >> problem
> >> is that now I can't turn the dist enough to get it to advance to the red
> >> timing mark, where it used to be. I did this job once, several years ago
> >> and
> >> didn't have any problems. I positioned the cam sprocket with the "up"
> >> mark
> >> up and the little mark on each side even with the top of the head. I have
> >> the crank at TDC. I made sure of it by checking the #1 piston's travel.
> >> The
> >> flywheel, or whatever it is that has the marks, has, from retard side to
> >> advance side, a hash mark and a "T" next to it. That checks out as TDC.
> >> After that, there is about a half inch gap and then, what looks like the
> >> letter (G) .. another gap and then about 4 hash marks with the middle one
> >> red. After the red one is, what looks like the number "5". I assume that
> >> the
> >> one to the left of the red is the number "1", making it (15), for the
> >> number
> >> of degrease that it's supposed to be set before TDC. Anywhoo ... I can't
> >> get it to advance past the (G) looking mark which is way before the red
> >> one.
> >> I tore it back apart and rechecked the cam sprocket and the TDC mark ...
> >> they are OK.
>
> >> The procedure, according to the "Haynes" book, for setting ignition
> >> timing
> >> is to disconnect and plug the two vacuum hoses that go to the advance and
> >> then set it to 15 BTDC, reconnect the hoses and you're good to go. That's
> >> how I did it last time. Don't know why I can't duplicate it.
>
> >> I got a hold of an Accord service manual and it tells you to set it at 4
> >> BTDC with the hoses disconnected and plugged. There is no 4 degree mark.
> >> I
> >> guess supposedly, it's supposed to go to 15 after rehooking the vac
> >> advance?
> >> I replaced the vac advance a few years ago. I just checked it and it
> >> holds,
> >> with vac pump on either connection. It also mentions how to check for
> >> vacuum
> >> from the hoses and suggests that if not there, it might be a problem with
> >> the "Ignition control solenoid valve". To check that you are supposed to
> >> have the engine running and warmed up. Anyway, I have it torn apart with
> >> belt on and if I have to adjust the belt, now's the time.
>
> >> It seems like, to be able to do it the Haynes way, I would have to move
> >> the
> >> belt a tooth. That's the only way I'll be able to get it to advance the
> >> ign.
> >> timing to 15 BTDC. Any help or thoughts on this would be greatly
> >> appreciated. Thanks in advance
>
> > after initial installation of the belt, you must rotate the crankshaft
> > counter-clockwise to check the cam timing
> > tighten the tensioner and re-check the timing
>
> > good luck
>
> Been there, done that. I even drove it around before taking it apart again.
> All marks line up, while turning the crank in the running direction, which
> tensions the belt properly, and still can't turn the distributor enough,
> toward the advance direction, to set the ignition timing to the red 15
> degree mark. It maxes out about half way between TDC and the red mark.


did you adjust valve clearances after installing the belt? if so, did
you notice any anomalies?
the exact belt replacement shoud result in no deviation in valve
clearances

if all is well, then i'm sure the vac advanced diaphragm is faulty