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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30 May 2008, 11:52 am
dgk
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Default 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

Lately the Accord (105k) has a screeching noise when first driven - it
lasts 5 seconds or so and varies with the speed of the car. Then it
goes away. I guess a belt? It's overdue for a general big maintenance
job. I couldn't see anything wrong with the belts. Timing belt was
done about a year and a half back.

I first noticed it when it was raining out, but now it does it when
it's dry. Not all the time, maybe half the time.

Any suggestions appreciated.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 30 May 2008, 03:04 pm
Net Doctor
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

Congratulations...you just bought yourself a new $300 distributor.

Pull the rotor cap of the distributor and see if there is red rusty dust
around the inside of the cover. Telltale sign. The outer distributor bearing
goes bad, squeals on the shaft. If you catch it in the early stages you
might save yourself from overheating and destroying the ignitor. That will
save you like $90. In the later stages it may result in the rotor button
melting and the engine will not run, or may be out of time. Spraying a
little bit of thin oil on the bearing may rusult in a temporary reduction in
noise, but it will not stop it from having to be replaced.
I could be wrong in my guess, but the exact thing happened in my '92. It
quit running on me because the rotor button melted and spun nearly 180
degrees around.
Be careful if you try tightening the belts; if you overtighten them you may
also destroy the harmonic balancer pulley on the crank. Ask me how I know
that...

"dgk" <dgk@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:n0c044tuqvfgjootns8f3uacseqgejn4o5@4ax.com...
> Lately the Accord (105k) has a screeching noise when first driven - it
> lasts 5 seconds or so and varies with the speed of the car. Then it
> goes away. I guess a belt? It's overdue for a general big maintenance
> job. I couldn't see anything wrong with the belts. Timing belt was
> done about a year and a half back.
>
> I first noticed it when it was raining out, but now it does it when
> it's dry. Not all the time, maybe half the time.
>
> Any suggestions appreciated.



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 07:07 am
dgk
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

On Fri, 30 May 2008 16:04:08 -0400, "Net Doctor"
<bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:

>Congratulations...you just bought yourself a new $300 distributor.
>
>Pull the rotor cap of the distributor and see if there is red rusty dust
>around the inside of the cover. Telltale sign. The outer distributor bearing
>goes bad, squeals on the shaft. If you catch it in the early stages you
>might save yourself from overheating and destroying the ignitor. That will
>save you like $90. In the later stages it may result in the rotor button
>melting and the engine will not run, or may be out of time. Spraying a
>little bit of thin oil on the bearing may rusult in a temporary reduction in
>noise, but it will not stop it from having to be replaced.
> I could be wrong in my guess, but the exact thing happened in my '92. It
>quit running on me because the rotor button melted and spun nearly 180
>degrees around.
>Be careful if you try tightening the belts; if you overtighten them you may
>also destroy the harmonic balancer pulley on the crank. Ask me how I know
>that...
>


How do you...

The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems to
be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
have someone take a look.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 08:00 am
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

dgk wrote:
> On Fri, 30 May 2008 16:04:08 -0400, "Net Doctor"
> <bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:
>
>> Congratulations...you just bought yourself a new $300 distributor.
>>
>> Pull the rotor cap of the distributor and see if there is red rusty dust
>> around the inside of the cover. Telltale sign. The outer distributor bearing
>> goes bad, squeals on the shaft. If you catch it in the early stages you
>> might save yourself from overheating and destroying the ignitor. That will
>> save you like $90. In the later stages it may result in the rotor button
>> melting and the engine will not run, or may be out of time. Spraying a
>> little bit of thin oil on the bearing may rusult in a temporary reduction in
>> noise, but it will not stop it from having to be replaced.
>> I could be wrong in my guess, but the exact thing happened in my '92. It
>> quit running on me because the rotor button melted and spun nearly 180
>> degrees around.
>> Be careful if you try tightening the belts; if you overtighten them you may
>> also destroy the harmonic balancer pulley on the crank. Ask me how I know
>> that...
>>

>
> How do you...
>
> The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems to
> be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
> have someone take a look.


before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts.
if loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down,
just as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as
long as they're being used.

and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it doesn't
have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 10:51 am
motsco_
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

jim beam wrote:
> before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c

belts. if
> loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down, just
> as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as long
> as they're being used.
>
> and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it doesn't
> have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.


========================

There's a picture of an older one here (from Jim Beam), which seems to
confirm that there's no internal harmonic balancer on them... My '97
CR-V certainly has one built in to the pulley.

http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/cranktool/index.html
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 11:59 am
Net Doctor
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

I beg to differ..it most cetainly does have:
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...1167195k292243

a 2-piece pully separated by a rubber dividor. I never said anything about
it being internal. And it will fly apart if you over tighten the belt. I
'know' that because, at the advice of someone in the forums who knew nothing
of the cronic issues with the distributor bearing, I kept tightening the
belt. Eventually the outer pulley separated from the inner hub. Made a mess
of things down there too.

If it hadn't been for the car quitting completely and discovering that
the spark was nearly 180 degrees out I might have put it in the shop. It
occurred to me to pull the distrib cap to confirm that the rotor was turning
when I found it was full of red rusty debris. I could see that it had melted
on the center hub and spun around.(see link at bottom) If you get a handle
on it before it gets too hot it may not destroy the ignitor module in
there...it was too late for mine. I think if you pull the distrib cap off,
pop off the rotor button, and then pull off that dustcover
http://isomerica.net/~dpn/blogimages..._dustcover.jpg
in there you can get a good look at the outer bearing.

I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that it was definitely your
distributor, and possibly inducing panic. JB was right to point that out.

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> quoted
>> <bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:

<snip>

>> How do you...
>>
>> The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems to
>> be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
>> have someone take a look.

>

JB wrote:

> before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts. if
> loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down, just
> as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as long as
> they're being used.
>
> and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it doesn't
> have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.


http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...3-f00c3ef914d2


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 12:08 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

Net Doctor wrote:
> I beg to differ..it most cetainly does have:
> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...1167195k292243
>
> a 2-piece pully separated by a rubber dividor. I never said anything about
> it being internal. And it will fly apart if you over tighten the belt. I
> 'know' that because, at the advice of someone in the forums who knew nothing
> of the cronic issues with the distributor bearing, I kept tightening the
> belt. Eventually the outer pulley separated from the inner hub. Made a mess
> of things down there too.


you're right that a true rubber-separated balancer will disintegrate if
over-tightened and run for a long time. but the 91 accord doesn't have
one, regardless of any generic pics or names used in a third-party
catalog. check the honda catalog.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...TON-CRANKSHAFT

"PULLEY, CRANKSHAFT", not "balancer, crankshaft". the engine's got its
own internal balancer shafts for that job, items 11 & 12.






>
> If it hadn't been for the car quitting completely and discovering that
> the spark was nearly 180 degrees out I might have put it in the shop. It
> occurred to me to pull the distrib cap to confirm that the rotor was turning
> when I found it was full of red rusty debris. I could see that it had melted
> on the center hub and spun around.(see link at bottom) If you get a handle
> on it before it gets too hot it may not destroy the ignitor module in
> there...it was too late for mine. I think if you pull the distrib cap off,
> pop off the rotor button, and then pull off that dustcover
> http://isomerica.net/~dpn/blogimages..._dustcover.jpg
> in there you can get a good look at the outer bearing.
>
> I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that it was definitely your
> distributor, and possibly inducing panic. JB was right to point that out.
>
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> quoted
>>> <bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:

> <snip>
>
>>> How do you...
>>>
>>> The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems to
>>> be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
>>> have someone take a look.

> JB wrote:
>
>> before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts. if
>> loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down, just
>> as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as long as
>> they're being used.
>>
>> and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it doesn't
>> have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.

>
> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...3-f00c3ef914d2
>
>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 12:25 pm
Net Doctor
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

JB..it's a 2 piece pulley, inner and outer hub separated by rubber. Call it
what we will..it will fly apart with too much pressure on it.

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:xt-dneh3N5WOG9zVnZ2dnUVZ_tPinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
> Net Doctor wrote:
>> I beg to differ..it most cetainly does have:
>> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...1167195k292243
>>
>> a 2-piece pully separated by a rubber dividor. I never said anything
>> about it being internal. And it will fly apart if you over tighten the
>> belt. I 'know' that because, at the advice of someone in the forums who
>> knew nothing of the cronic issues with the distributor bearing, I kept
>> tightening the belt. Eventually the outer pulley separated from the inner
>> hub. Made a mess of things down there too.

>
> you're right that a true rubber-separated balancer will disintegrate if
> over-tightened and run for a long time. but the 91 accord doesn't have
> one, regardless of any generic pics or names used in a third-party
> catalog. check the honda catalog.
>
> http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...TON-CRANKSHAFT
>
> "PULLEY, CRANKSHAFT", not "balancer, crankshaft". the engine's got its
> own internal balancer shafts for that job, items 11 & 12.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> If it hadn't been for the car quitting completely and discovering
>> that the spark was nearly 180 degrees out I might have put it in the
>> shop. It occurred to me to pull the distrib cap to confirm that the rotor
>> was turning when I found it was full of red rusty debris. I could see
>> that it had melted on the center hub and spun around.(see link at bottom)
>> If you get a handle on it before it gets too hot it may not destroy the
>> ignitor module in there...it was too late for mine. I think if you pull
>> the distrib cap off, pop off the rotor button, and then pull off that
>> dustcover
>> http://isomerica.net/~dpn/blogimages..._dustcover.jpg
>> in there you can get a good look at the outer bearing.
>>
>> I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that it was definitely your
>> distributor, and possibly inducing panic. JB was right to point that out.
>>
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> quoted
>>>> <bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:

>> <snip>
>>
>>>> How do you...
>>>>
>>>> The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems to
>>>> be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
>>>> have someone take a look.

>> JB wrote:
>>
>>> before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts. if
>>> loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down, just
>>> as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as long
>>> as they're being used.
>>>
>>> and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it doesn't
>>> have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.

>>
>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...3-f00c3ef914d2



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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 12:51 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

Net Doctor wrote:
> JB..it's a 2 piece pulley, inner and outer hub separated by rubber. Call it
> what we will..it will fly apart with too much pressure on it.


yes, the 2-piece ones will, but the 91 accord is a single-piece, all
steel, pulley wheel, not a balancer. maybe you're thinking toyota?




>
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:xt-dneh3N5WOG9zVnZ2dnUVZ_tPinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>> Net Doctor wrote:
>>> I beg to differ..it most cetainly does have:
>>> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...1167195k292243
>>>
>>> a 2-piece pully separated by a rubber dividor. I never said anything
>>> about it being internal. And it will fly apart if you over tighten the
>>> belt. I 'know' that because, at the advice of someone in the forums who
>>> knew nothing of the cronic issues with the distributor bearing, I kept
>>> tightening the belt. Eventually the outer pulley separated from the inner
>>> hub. Made a mess of things down there too.

>> you're right that a true rubber-separated balancer will disintegrate if
>> over-tightened and run for a long time. but the 91 accord doesn't have
>> one, regardless of any generic pics or names used in a third-party
>> catalog. check the honda catalog.
>>
>> http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...TON-CRANKSHAFT
>>
>> "PULLEY, CRANKSHAFT", not "balancer, crankshaft". the engine's got its
>> own internal balancer shafts for that job, items 11 & 12.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> If it hadn't been for the car quitting completely and discovering
>>> that the spark was nearly 180 degrees out I might have put it in the
>>> shop. It occurred to me to pull the distrib cap to confirm that the rotor
>>> was turning when I found it was full of red rusty debris. I could see
>>> that it had melted on the center hub and spun around.(see link at bottom)
>>> If you get a handle on it before it gets too hot it may not destroy the
>>> ignitor module in there...it was too late for mine. I think if you pull
>>> the distrib cap off, pop off the rotor button, and then pull off that
>>> dustcover
>>> http://isomerica.net/~dpn/blogimages..._dustcover.jpg
>>> in there you can get a good look at the outer bearing.
>>>
>>> I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that it was definitely your
>>> distributor, and possibly inducing panic. JB was right to point that out.
>>>
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> quoted
>>>>> <bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>
>>>>> How do you...
>>>>>
>>>>> The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems to
>>>>> be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
>>>>> have someone take a look.
>>> JB wrote:
>>>
>>>> before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts. if
>>>> loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down, just
>>>> as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as long
>>>> as they're being used.
>>>>
>>>> and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it doesn't
>>>> have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.
>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...3-f00c3ef914d2

>
>

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 31 May 2008, 08:52 pm
Net Doctor
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 91 Accord - screeches when first moves

/sarcasm on

My gosh..since you put it that way..it becomes clear to me that I was
mistaken.

Apparently that wasn't a '92 Honda Accord that I put a $300 distributor
on. Perhaps I put a new harmonic balancer pulley on a Camry because my
original one flew apart. I must have been driving a Toyota Camry all those
225,000 miles. In fact, I'm betting all 6 of my Honda Accords are really
Camrys under the skin.
In fact..oh my gosh, I hadn't even considered this!...maybe, just
maybe..I haven't really been working for Honda for the last 21 years, but
just showing up at a plant that says Honda on the front of the building when
really...(OMG!) my pay checks were underwritten by Toyota.

Them bastards!

It is amazing how crystal clear things become when somebody lays it out
there for you in black and white.

/sarcasm off

JB:
I respect the fact that you are an active participant in the discussions
that take place in this forum, and I am certain that you have and will
continue to provide many of the users here with tons of useful information,
that will ultimately save them time and money. I acknowledge that I was
wrong in my first reply to have risked inducing panic when, in fact, I could
have been wrong about the OP's symptoms being a bad distributor.
But dude...you are contradicting my statements which are an accurate,
factual account of my very own experiences with my very own ('92) Honda
Accord.
Fact: The root cause of my squeal was a worn-out bearing in the
distributor. This was a common problem for that generation, as confirmed by
the tech I spoke with at the FACTORY SERVICE CENTER.
Fact: Incrementally tightening my belt put extreme pressure on the
2-piece pulley bolted to the crank, which ultimately caused it to come
apart. The only part remaining bolted to the crank was the inner hub, which
had an outer rubber ring around it.
Fact: The new harmonic balancer, which I bought from the FACTORY SERVICE
CENTER was a 2-piece pulley, with a rubber divider between the 2 steel
parts. Call it a pulley; call it a balancer...I don't care. It did and will
come apart, the outer pulley from the inner hub.

I respectfully give you the last post regarding this diference of
opinion.

Doc

"jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
news:ZMudnUqOkZiFDdzVnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
> Net Doctor wrote:
>> JB..it's a 2 piece pulley, inner and outer hub separated by rubber. Call
>> it what we will..it will fly apart with too much pressure on it.

>
> yes, the 2-piece ones will, but the 91 accord is a single-piece, all
> steel, pulley wheel, not a balancer. maybe you're thinking toyota?
>
>
>
>
>>
>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>> news:xt-dneh3N5WOG9zVnZ2dnUVZ_tPinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>> Net Doctor wrote:
>>>> I beg to differ..it most cetainly does have:
>>>> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...1167195k292243
>>>>
>>>> a 2-piece pully separated by a rubber dividor. I never said anything
>>>> about it being internal. And it will fly apart if you over tighten the
>>>> belt. I 'know' that because, at the advice of someone in the forums who
>>>> knew nothing of the cronic issues with the distributor bearing, I kept
>>>> tightening the belt. Eventually the outer pulley separated from the
>>>> inner hub. Made a mess of things down there too.
>>> you're right that a true rubber-separated balancer will disintegrate if
>>> over-tightened and run for a long time. but the 91 accord doesn't have
>>> one, regardless of any generic pics or names used in a third-party
>>> catalog. check the honda catalog.
>>>
>>> http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...TON-CRANKSHAFT
>>>
>>> "PULLEY, CRANKSHAFT", not "balancer, crankshaft". the engine's got its
>>> own internal balancer shafts for that job, items 11 & 12.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> If it hadn't been for the car quitting completely and discovering
>>>> that the spark was nearly 180 degrees out I might have put it in the
>>>> shop. It occurred to me to pull the distrib cap to confirm that the
>>>> rotor was turning when I found it was full of red rusty debris. I could
>>>> see that it had melted on the center hub and spun around.(see link at
>>>> bottom) If you get a handle on it before it gets too hot it may not
>>>> destroy the ignitor module in there...it was too late for mine. I think
>>>> if you pull the distrib cap off, pop off the rotor button, and then
>>>> pull off that dustcover
>>>> http://isomerica.net/~dpn/blogimages..._dustcover.jpg
>>>> in there you can get a good look at the outer bearing.
>>>>
>>>> I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that it was definitely
>>>> your distributor, and possibly inducing panic. JB was right to point
>>>> that out.
>>>>
>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> quoted
>>>>>> <bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>
>>>>>> How do you...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
>>>>>> have someone take a look.
>>>> JB wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts.
>>>>> if loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down,
>>>>> just as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as
>>>>> long as they're being used.
>>>>>
>>>>> and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it
>>>>> doesn't have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.
>>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...3-f00c3ef914d2

>>


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