Honda Car Forum

Net Doctor wrote:
> /sarcasm on
>
> My gosh..since you put it that way..it becomes clear to me that I was
> mistaken.
>
> Apparently that wasn't a '92 Honda Accord that I put a $300 distributor
> on. Perhaps I put a new harmonic balancer pulley on a Camry because my
> original one flew apart. I must have been driving a Toyota Camry all those
> 225,000 miles. In fact, I'm betting all 6 of my Honda Accords are really
> Camrys under the skin.
> In fact..oh my gosh, I hadn't even considered this!...maybe, just
> maybe..I haven't really been working for Honda for the last 21 years, but
> just showing up at a plant that says Honda on the front of the building when
> really...(OMG!) my pay checks were underwritten by Toyota.
>
> Them bastards!
>
> It is amazing how crystal clear things become when somebody lays it out
> there for you in black and white.
>
> /sarcasm off
>
> JB:
> I respect the fact that you are an active participant in the discussions
> that take place in this forum, and I am certain that you have and will
> continue to provide many of the users here with tons of useful information,
> that will ultimately save them time and money. I acknowledge that I was
> wrong in my first reply to have risked inducing panic when, in fact, I could
> have been wrong about the OP's symptoms being a bad distributor.
> But dude...you are contradicting my statements which are an accurate,
> factual account of my very own experiences with my very own ('92) Honda
> Accord.
> Fact: The root cause of my squeal was a worn-out bearing in the
> distributor. This was a common problem for that generation, as confirmed by
> the tech I spoke with at the FACTORY SERVICE CENTER.

indeed, it is a common failure - i'm simply saying that the symptom,
squealing that then disappears, is /much/ more likely to be a belt, and
given that belt squeal is so cheap and easy to fix, it should be looked
at first!

as for cause, consistent squeal is more likely to be bearing. stopping
to listen for the source with the hood up is going to isolate which is
which.


> Fact: Incrementally tightening my belt put extreme pressure on the
> 2-piece pulley bolted to the crank, which ultimately caused it to come
> apart. The only part remaining bolted to the crank was the inner hub, which
> had an outer rubber ring around it.

indeed - that's what happens if a balancer wheel like that is old, the
rubber has fatigued, and the belt is over-tightened.


> Fact: The new harmonic balancer, which I bought from the FACTORY SERVICE
> CENTER was a 2-piece pulley, with a rubber divider between the 2 steel
> parts. Call it a pulley; call it a balancer...I don't care.

as i said before, if it's two wheels with rubber, it /is/ a balancer -
no rubber, it's not. don't assume i'm assuming you can't differentiate
- but many /other/ people can't and don't, including parts suppliers.
as for its existence on a 91 accord, i guess i'll have to take pics when
i'm next in a junkyard



> It did and will
> come apart, the outer pulley from the inner hub.

eventually, yes, that'll happen. not so much with new ones as the
rubber hasn't fatigued.


>
> I respectfully give you the last post regarding this diference of
> opinion.
>
> Doc
>
> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
> news:ZMudnUqOkZiFDdzVnZ2dnUVZ_uednZ2d@speakeasy.ne t...
>> Net Doctor wrote:
>>> JB..it's a 2 piece pulley, inner and outer hub separated by rubber. Call
>>> it what we will..it will fly apart with too much pressure on it.
>> yes, the 2-piece ones will, but the 91 accord is a single-piece, all
>> steel, pulley wheel, not a balancer. maybe you're thinking toyota?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote in message
>>> news:xt-dneh3N5WOG9zVnZ2dnUVZ_tPinZ2d@speakeasy.net...
>>>> Net Doctor wrote:
>>>>> I beg to differ..it most cetainly does have:
>>>>> http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...1167195k292243
>>>>>
>>>>> a 2-piece pully separated by a rubber dividor. I never said anything
>>>>> about it being internal. And it will fly apart if you over tighten the
>>>>> belt. I 'know' that because, at the advice of someone in the forums who
>>>>> knew nothing of the cronic issues with the distributor bearing, I kept
>>>>> tightening the belt. Eventually the outer pulley separated from the
>>>>> inner hub. Made a mess of things down there too.
>>>> you're right that a true rubber-separated balancer will disintegrate if
>>>> over-tightened and run for a long time. but the 91 accord doesn't have
>>>> one, regardless of any generic pics or names used in a third-party
>>>> catalog. check the honda catalog.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...TON-CRANKSHAFT
>>>>
>>>> "PULLEY, CRANKSHAFT", not "balancer, crankshaft". the engine's got its
>>>> own internal balancer shafts for that job, items 11 & 12.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> If it hadn't been for the car quitting completely and discovering
>>>>> that the spark was nearly 180 degrees out I might have put it in the
>>>>> shop. It occurred to me to pull the distrib cap to confirm that the
>>>>> rotor was turning when I found it was full of red rusty debris. I could
>>>>> see that it had melted on the center hub and spun around.(see link at
>>>>> bottom) If you get a handle on it before it gets too hot it may not
>>>>> destroy the ignitor module in there...it was too late for mine. I think
>>>>> if you pull the distrib cap off, pop off the rotor button, and then
>>>>> pull off that dustcover
>>>>> http://isomerica.net/~dpn/blogimages..._dustcover.jpg
>>>>> in there you can get a good look at the outer bearing.
>>>>>
>>>>> I apologize for jumping to the conclusion that it was definitely
>>>>> your distributor, and possibly inducing panic. JB was right to point
>>>>> that out.
>>>>>
>>>>> "jim beam" <spamvortex@bad.example.net> quoted
>>>>>>> <bgreene1@dontspammecolumbus.rr.com> wrote:
>>>>> <snip>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> How do you...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The distributor looks newish. What I don't like is that there seems
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> be a bit of oil coming from two of the spark plug holes. I think I'll
>>>>>>> have someone take a look.
>>>>> JB wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> before you panic, check the alternator, power steering and a/c belts.
>>>>>> if loose, it's typical for them to squeal on startup, then quiet down,
>>>>>> just as you describe. failed bearings generally continue to squeal as
>>>>>> long as they're being used.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> and you can't destroy an "harmonic balancer" on a 91 accord - it
>>>>>> doesn't have one, it's an ordinary pulley wheel.
>>>>> http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...3-f00c3ef914d2
>

On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:02:42 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:


It was apparently, good news, a loose belt. But it did need rear
brakes and a new gasket to stop oil from leaking out the spark plugs
and messing up the ignition wires, plus new ignition wires. And the
inspection. So, around $500. It's worth doing to keep it running
another year I guess.

dgk wrote:
> On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:02:42 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>
> It was apparently, good news, a loose belt. But it did need rear
> brakes and a new gasket to stop oil from leaking out the spark plugs
> and messing up the ignition wires, plus new ignition wires. And the
> inspection. So, around $500. It's worth doing to keep it running
> another year I guess.

i'd highly suspect the necessity of the rear brakes - honda drum brakes
wear at a /very/ low rate. and i'd suspect the need to do your shocks
too, frankly. it's not unknown for unscrupulous shops to spray oil on
them to convince customers of the need to open their wallets, and honda
shocks last a /long/ time.

On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:01:44 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

>dgk wrote:
>> On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:02:42 -0700, jim beam
>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> It was apparently, good news, a loose belt. But it did need rear
>> brakes and a new gasket to stop oil from leaking out the spark plugs
>> and messing up the ignition wires, plus new ignition wires. And the
>> inspection. So, around $500. It's worth doing to keep it running
>> another year I guess.
>
>i'd highly suspect the necessity of the rear brakes - honda drum brakes
>wear at a /very/ low rate. and i'd suspect the need to do your shocks
>too, frankly. it's not unknown for unscrupulous shops to spray oil on
>them to convince customers of the need to open their wallets, and honda
>shocks last a /long/ time.

I can't remember when the rear brakes were done but I did hear a
slight grinding noise lately. The last time I had it inspected the
pads were looking pretty thin.

dgk wrote:
> On Mon, 02 Jun 2008 06:01:44 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> dgk wrote:
>>> On Sat, 31 May 2008 23:02:42 -0700, jim beam
>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> It was apparently, good news, a loose belt. But it did need rear
>>> brakes and a new gasket to stop oil from leaking out the spark plugs
>>> and messing up the ignition wires, plus new ignition wires. And the
>>> inspection. So, around $500. It's worth doing to keep it running
>>> another year I guess.
>> i'd highly suspect the necessity of the rear brakes - honda drum brakes
>> wear at a /very/ low rate. and i'd suspect the need to do your shocks
>> too, frankly. it's not unknown for unscrupulous shops to spray oil on
>> them to convince customers of the need to open their wallets, and honda
>> shocks last a /long/ time.
>
> I can't remember when the rear brakes were done but I did hear a
> slight grinding noise lately. The last time I had it inspected the
> pads were looking pretty thin.

grinding is usually dust. removal of dust usually solves.

drum brakes have shoes, not pads. he said pedantically.

On Sat, 31 May 2008 10:51:19 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>
> Net Doctor wrote:
>> JB..it's a 2 piece pulley, inner and outer hub separated by rubber. Call
>> it what we will..it will fly apart with too much pressure on it.
>
> yes, the 2-piece ones will, but the 91 accord is a single-piece, all
> steel, pulley wheel, not a balancer. maybe you're thinking toyota?


Maybe he's just thinking...

You seem to have trouble with that.

On Sat, 31 May 2008 21:52:41 -0400, Net Doctor wrote:

> that take place in this forum, and I am certain that you have and will
> continue to provide many of the users here with tons of useful
> information, that will ultimately save them time and money. I
> acknowledge that I was wrong in my first reply to have risked inducing
> panic when, in fact, I could have been wrong about the OP's symptoms
> being a bad distributor.
> But dude...you are contradicting my statements which are an
> accurate,
> factual account of my very own experiences with my very own ('92) Honda
> Accord.

JB doesn't take into account 'experience'. If he doesn't know it, well,
it just isn't knowledge!

And after looking over a few of his answers, I'd seek a second opinion
before ripping out an engine that needs a water pump or something.
Guy appears to be a shot-gunner...it sounds like this, so it must be
this. It's just too bad if it's not and was something as simple as a
screeching belt...