Honda Car Forum

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:06:41 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>
>> hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:58:03 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had
>>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a
>>>> particular speed cause this?
>>>>
>>>> I think you don't know what you're talking about.
>>> I think I've probably broken in more new cars than you have.
>>>
>>> The manual also probably recommends changing the oil every 7.500 miles
>>> whether it needs it or not.
>> Seven and a half miles? Gee, my mechanic is more than 7.5 miles away.
>>
>>> I've had a half dozen successes with my method, and was trying to pass
>>> on *experience* to the OP. Don't like it? Don't follow it! Simple!
>> So was I, which is, follow the manual, not some guy you don't know on the
>> internet.
>>
>> It has long been rumored that there are people who are totally clueless
>> twits who write on the internet.
>>
>> So which makes more sense: To follow the advice of the people who actually
>> build the cars or someone who may or may not know what they are talking
>> about?
>>
>> Jeff
>
>
> You just gotta argue about everything, don't you?
>
> The guy's not talking about a gentle break in, he's talking about a coast
> to coast trip with a new vehicle, presumably as quickly as possible.

Presumably? Well, considering that the guy posted about two different
vehicles on two different newsgroups, I don't think there is a real
purchase.


> I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing.

Bull! I gave him the benefit of *my* experience and knowledge. And my
experience is that these trucks and cars are changing and evolving over
the years. There are newer and better oils, better manufacturing and
machining methods and better ways to assemble the engines, resulting in
different break-in requirements.

The people who build the cars know more than you or I.

What applies to cars made 10, 20 or 30 years ago may or may not apply to
cars made today.

> Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you actually
> did something other than question and obfuscate what others have said.

You must have a very limited life.

However, questioning is far better than giving out-dated and incorrect
advice, as you did.

> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door
> slap you...

You know, there is something called a filter, aka, kill file that comes
with newsgroups. Please feel free to put me on yours.

Jeff

"Joe" <joe@nospam.hits-buffalo.com> wrote in message
news:slrng2f8na.47l.joe@barada.griffincs.local...
>
> In NY, a Ridgeline is registered Commercial. It has lower safety
> requirements and higher bumpers than a car. Ergo, it is not a car.

Ten years ago maybe that was the required registration class (in NY).
Half-ton pick-ups are eligible for Passenger plates these days.

Seth wrote:
> "Joe" <joe@nospam.hits-buffalo.com> wrote in message
> news:slrng2f8na.47l.joe@barada.griffincs.local...
>>
>> In NY, a Ridgeline is registered Commercial. It has lower safety
>> requirements and higher bumpers than a car. Ergo, it is not a car.
>
> Ten years ago maybe that was the required registration class (in NY).
> Half-ton pick-ups are eligible for Passenger plates these days.
>

But it is not the states that set the safety standards. It is the
Federal Gov't. They do require that cars meet different standards than
trucks. And they also have different mileage requirements.

I remember years ago that Subaru imported the Brat as trucks, so that
they could get around some tarrifs, too, rather than import them as cars.

Jeff

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 18:19:48 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 08:30:50 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>>>>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 00:19:20 -0600, Bow Wow wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was planning on taking my soon to take possession Highlander V6 on
>>>>>>> a trip which will consist mostly of highway driving of about
>>>>>>> 3000mile drive
>>>>>>> and been told that that's not such a good idea because you don't
>>>>>>> want to drive a brand new car on the highway for any extended amount
>>>>>>> if you can help before the car's properly broken in.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The seals, rings and the machine just needs to set in properly,
>>>>>>> which happens during the break in period and before that, I was told
>>>>>>> you should
>>>>>>> avoid any long highway trip.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What do you guys think? If this was your car, would you do it or
>>>>>>> put off
>>>>>>> the trip until after the car's broken in properly? Thanks.
>>>>>> I'm old-school. I drive a car 1500 miles and then do the first oil
>>>>>> change.
>>>>>> Then I do the next one at 3000 miles, and every 3-3500 after that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I also had 3 cars go over 250,000 miles without burning oil.
>>>>>> Five-hundred miles is approx 8 hours. I would prbably go pretty easy
>>>>>> for the first 1,000 miles, secondary roads and short stretches on the
>>>>>> highway around cities. This will do two things; allow the machine to
>>>>>> run at something other than wide open, and force variations in load
>>>>>> and speed like the manual says to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It seems I can tell when a car was broken in properly or not. On cars
>>>>>> I had had new, they don't tend to develop 'notches' at certain
>>>>>> speeds. By this I mean, on cars other than ones I bought new, I can
>>>>>> notice that the car seems to hit a stride ~45-50 MPH, and another ~70
>>>>>> MPH. What I assume is that the person that bought the car new had two
>>>>>> driving modes: secondary roads (45 MPH) and highway (70 MPH). I have
>>>>>> noticed this on a few used cars I have owned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On cars I bought new and broke in properly, there weren't any
>>>>>> 'notches', everything was fairly even across the range. You will hit
>>>>>> speeds and conditions on any car, no matter how it was broken in due
>>>>>> to engine and mechanical efficiencies. On most 4 cylinder Toyotas I
>>>>>> have owned, they seem to hit their stride 70~75 MPH, since I assume
>>>>>> this is the engine's most efficient mode. I have noticed this on 4 or
>>>>>> 5 Toyotas
>>>>>> I have owned. Always got the best economy at about 72 MPH in 5th
>>>>>> gear.
>>>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had
>>>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a
>>>>> particular speed cause this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you don't know what you're talking about.
>>>>>
>>>>> From the owner's manual for a 2008 Pilot:
>>>>>
>>>>> "Help assure your vehicle’s future
>>>>> reliability and performance by paying extra attention to how you drive
>>>>> during the first 600 miles (1,000 km). During this period: Avoid
>>>>> full-throttle starts and rapid
>>>>> acceleration.
>>>>> Do not change the oil until the
>>>>> scheduled maintenance time.
>>>>> Avoid hard braking for the first
>>>>> 200 miles (300 km).
>>>>> Do not tow a trailer.
>>>>> You should also follow these
>>>>> recommendations with an
>>>>> overhauled or exchanged engine, or
>>>>> when the brakes are replaced."
>>>>>
>>>>> Note what the manual says about the first oil change.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Of course, with newer cars and a V6, things are different now, but I
>>>>>> would
>>>>>> still take it pretty easy for the first 1500 miles, and stop and have
>>>>>> the oil changed.
>>>>
>>>> what??? read the manual??? no freakin' chance buddy! we're all going
>>>> to have a retardation contest here on usenet and take the words of
>>>> nameless idiots with our new multi-thousand dollar investments, not the
>>>> experts that researched, designed and manufactured the freakin' thing!
>>>>
>>>> imagine these guys in aerospace: "yeah, but this guy said those cracks
>>>> didn't matter".
>>> You have had how many cars >230,000 miles?
>> a few actually. 306k was my highest [verifiable] mileage. but wtf has
>> that got to do with inability to read manuals???
>
>
> I doubt the manual was written with a 3,000 mile all-at-once break in in
> mind.
>
>>
>>
>>> Feh.
>>>
>>>
>>> Some things change, some things don't. Rings and cylinder walls are
>>> still about the same as they were 20 years ago.
>> "about the same"??? you want to be imprecise so you can claim whatever
>> you want that way??? or are you saying "about" you don't actually know
>> the details??? [rhetorical]
>>
>> it's untrue if you think there are no changes - there are small but subtle
>> changes to lip profiles that help with power and economy, and there are
>> improvements to honing processes giving better cylinder wall finish, and
>> quality.
>
>
> All the more reason to pay particular attention to the break in period,
> especially when driving long distances during that period.
>
>

you're making no sense whatsoever.

Joe wrote:
> On 2008-05-10, Elmo P. Shagnasty <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote:
>> In article <Xns9A9A6BD122317jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.83>,
>> Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:
>>
>>>> It's a car.
>>>>
>>>> It's intended to be a car, he drives it like a car, he calls it a car,
>>>> it's a car.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I suspect it's classified as a "light truck".
>> Classified by whom?
>>
>> The only classification that matters is the guy who bought it.
>>
>
> No, the only classification that matters is the one the government
> makes, since they determine the safety ratings and the licensing and
> registration fees.
>
> In NY, a Ridgeline is registered Commercial. It has lower safety
> requirements

the federal requirements may be lower, but i think you'll find that the
ridgeline meets all requirements, both car and truck.


> and higher bumpers than a car. Ergo, it is not a car.
>
>

Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
> On Sun, 11 May 2008 18:21:42 -0700, jim beam wrote:
>
>> hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:58:03 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had
>>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a
>>>> particular speed cause this?
>>>>
>>>> I think you don't know what you're talking about.
>>> I think I've probably broken in more new cars than you have.
>>>
>>> The manual also probably recommends changing the oil every 7.500 miles
>>> whether it needs it or not.
>>>
>>> I've had a half dozen successes with my method, and was trying to pass
>>> on *experience* to the OP. Don't like it? Don't follow it! Simple!
>> "success" as defined by "it didn't break down" is not the same as
>> "success" defined by the manufacturer based on their research.
>>
>> because you /did/ do a complete tear-down, analysis and comparison with
>> other engines given factory treatment before declaring "success", didn't
>> you?
>
>
> Let's see...one car, 245,000 miles and it needed a water pump.
> Next car...260,000 miles and it needed an alternator rebuild.
> Next car...240,000 miles and it needed timing belts. And it was a Honda.
>
> Not a single one burned a drop of oil.
>
> All I said was, it works for me. That's good enough for me.
> And I gave the OP my opinion based on my experience.
>
> Why turn everything into a friggin' arguement?! If you don't like the
> advice I gave...DON'T FOLLOW IT, MORON!
>
>

your "success" is based on the fact that they're toyotas or hondas, both
of which are almost impossible to kill, even by people like you that
can't be bothered to read the freakin' manual.

as to your "advice", it's utterly baseless and uninformed. every single
freakin' time. if you don't like being called on that, don't give it!

On Mon, 12 May 2008 02:04:10 +0000, Jeff wrote:

> Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>> On Sun, 11 May 2008 21:06:41 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>>
>>> hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 10 May 2008 14:58:03 +0000, Jeff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> How do you know that the speeds that the cars were driven at had
>>>>> anything to do with these "strides"? And why would driving a car a
>>>>> particular speed cause this?
>>>>>
>>>>> I think you don't know what you're talking about.
>>>> I think I've probably broken in more new cars than you have.
>>>>
>>>> The manual also probably recommends changing the oil every 7.500 miles
>>>> whether it needs it or not.
>>> Seven and a half miles? Gee, my mechanic is more than 7.5 miles away.
>>>
>>>> I've had a half dozen successes with my method, and was trying to pass
>>>> on *experience* to the OP. Don't like it? Don't follow it! Simple!
>>> So was I, which is, follow the manual, not some guy you don't know on
>>> the internet.
>>>
>>> It has long been rumored that there are people who are totally clueless
>>> twits who write on the internet.
>>>
>>> So which makes more sense: To follow the advice of the people who
>>> actually build the cars or someone who may or may not know what they
>>> are talking about?
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>
>>
>> You just gotta argue about everything, don't you?
>>
>> The guy's not talking about a gentle break in, he's talking about a
>> coast to coast trip with a new vehicle, presumably as quickly as
>> possible.
>
> Presumably? Well, considering that the guy posted about two different
> vehicles on two different newsgroups, I don't think there is a real
> purchase.

IIRC, the original post said he was thinking about taking delivery of a
new (whatever). I would extrapolate the choice is between a Highlander and
a Pilot, similar vehicles, although I believe the Highlander is slightly
smaller.


>
>
>> I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing.
>
> Bull! I gave him the benefit of *my* experience and knowledge. And my
> experience is that these trucks and cars are changing and evolving over
> the years. There are newer and better oils, better manufacturing and
> machining methods and better ways to assemble the engines, resulting in
> different break-in requirements.

Thanks. I'll stick to my way. Works for me.


>
> The people who build the cars know more than you or I.
>
> What applies to cars made 10, 20 or 30 years ago may or may not apply to
> cars made today.


Pistons and rings still slide against cylinder walls. That still happens.
And that's not including other systems in the vehicle.

>
>> Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you
>> actually did something other than question and obfuscate what others
>> have said.
>
> You must have a very limited life.
>
> However, questioning is far better than giving out-dated and incorrect
> advice, as you did.

Who says it's incorrect? The manual said basically the same thing 7, 12,
14 and 20 years ago. I was pointing out generalizations for breaking in
any car, and as someone pointed out, they're still listed in the manual:
avoid abrupt starts and stops, vary the speed, etc. Basically what I told
the OP. With the exception of changing the oil at 1,500 miles. That's the
only real departure I took from the manual. Unless the engine has a
special 'break in' oil like a Honda, I don't see what the big deal is.

What it really comes down to is driving the car 3,000 miles pretty much at
once.

As usual, a molehill turns into a mountain with you.


>
>> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door
>> slap you...
>
> You know, there is something called a filter, aka, kill file that comes
> with newsgroups. Please feel free to put me on yours.

Nah, I need a good laugh every day.


>
> Jeff

On 2008-05-12, Hachiroku ãƒ�ãƒ�ãƒ*ク <Trueno@ae86.GTS> wrote:

> You just gotta argue about everything, don't you?
>
> The guy's not talking about a gentle break in, he's talking about a coast
> to coast trip with a new vehicle, presumably as quickly as possible.
>
> I gave him the benefit of my experience. You, as usual, offer nothing.
>
> Matter of fact, I can't for the life of me ever remember when you actually
> did something other than question and obfuscate what others have said.
>
> If you leave tomorrow, I don't think you'd be missed. Don't let the door
> slap you...
>
>

I don't think anyone has much of a problem with recommending a
"gentle" break in. What the issue was is your definition of it.

1) 1000 Miles is plenty. And by Gentle, we mean no high RPM's, easy
on the jack-rabbit starts, and try to keep the RPM's moving around a
bit.

2) The first Oil Change should NOT be done until the maintenance
minder says to do it. The oil in the car from the factory is
specially formulated to aid in break-in, and if you remove it
prematurely, you could do more harm than good.

The engineers know what they are doing. Honda and Toyota have earned
the reputation of the top 2 car manufacturers for reliability. It
makes sense to do what they say to ensure a reliable ride...


--
Joe - Linux User #449481/Ubuntu User #19733
joe at hits - buffalo dot com
"Hate is baggage, life is too short to go around pissed off all the
time..." - Danny, American History X

On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:35:07 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>> All I said was, it works for me. That's good enough for me. And I gave
>> the OP my opinion based on my experience.
>>
>> Why turn everything into a friggin' arguement?! If you don't like the
>> advice I gave...DON'T FOLLOW IT, MORON!
>>
>>
>>
> your "success" is based on the fact that they're toyotas or hondas, both
> of which are almost impossible to kill, even by people like you that can't
> be bothered to read the freakin' manual.

Hmmm...when did I say I didn't read the manual? Of course I read the
manuals.

>
> as to your "advice", it's utterly baseless and uninformed.

It's based on what's in the manuals for break-in.

> every single
> freakin' time. if you don't like being called on that, don't give it!

And your suggestion to the OP would be? You didn't even bother to speak up
until you read my post.

Here's what the Pilot manual says:

Help assure your vehicle's future reliablilty and performance by paying
extra attention to how you drive during the first 600 miles. During this
period:

Avoid full-throttle starts and rapid acceleration

Do not change the oil until the recommended time or mileage interval shown
in the maintenance section.

Avoid hard breaking. New brakes need to be broken in by moderate use for
the first 200 miles.



A real wealth of information there, eh?

I'll stick to my method, thanks. It's proven over thirty years and nine or
so new cars.

Next time you want to pick a fight, stick your head up your ass and fight
for air.

On Sun, 11 May 2008 19:23:21 -0700, jim beam wrote:

>>>> Some things change, some things don't. Rings and cylinder walls are
>>>> still about the same as they were 20 years ago.
>>> "about the same"??? you want to be imprecise so you can claim whatever
>>> you want that way??? or are you saying "about" you don't actually know
>>> the details??? [rhetorical]
>>>
>>> it's untrue if you think there are no changes - there are small but
>>> subtle changes to lip profiles that help with power and economy, and
>>> there are improvements to honing processes giving better cylinder wall
>>> finish, and quality.
>>
>>
>> All the more reason to pay particular attention to the break in period,
>> especially when driving long distances during that period.
>>
>>
>>
> you're making no sense whatsoever.


And your advice to the OP was?

The guy's concerned about driving the car 3,000 nearly non-stop. He was
looking for advice. You offer a pissing contest from a know-it-all.


Here. Take another look:
>>> there are small but
>>> subtle changes to lip profiles that help with power and economy

>> All the more reason to pay particular attention to the break in period,
>> especially when driving long distances during that period.


There. Does it make sense now, or are you that thick?