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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05 May 2008, 11:09 am
Robert11
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Default Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

Hello,

Sure don't have to worry about this for a while, but thought I'd ask while
I'm thinking of it.

Son has a 2005 Accord, 6 cyl., four door sedan.

He has always been complaining about how poorly it climbs most any kind of
hill when there is snow on it, even a little.
Compares it to his last car, which was a Mercury Sable sedan, and just great
in this regard.
Uses low(er) gears, but this doesn't seem to help much.

Questions:

a. Is this inability a function of the car design, or most likely just the
original tires that came with the car ?

b. If, this winter, he puts on snow tires, or something better than the
"all-weather" compromise that is now on, and that they love to sell for
every possible condition, can he get away with just the two front tires ?

Or, would this cause fish-tailing or other control type problems ?

c. Any winter tire recommendations ?
The true old fashioned heavy threaded Snow tires ?
Or,... ?

Thanks,
Bob


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05 May 2008, 11:22 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

In article <I6GdnVO1GfWuvoLVnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
"Robert11" <rgsros@notme.com> wrote:

> He has always been complaining about how poorly it climbs most any kind of
> hill when there is snow on it, even a little.
> Compares it to his last car, which was a Mercury Sable sedan, and just great
> in this regard.
> Uses low(er) gears, but this doesn't seem to help much.
>
> Questions:
>
> a. Is this inability a function of the car design, or most likely just the
> original tires that came with the car ?
>
> b. If, this winter, he puts on snow tires, or something better than the
> "all-weather" compromise that is now on, and that they love to sell for
> every possible condition, can he get away with just the two front tires ?
>
> Or, would this cause fish-tailing or other control type problems ?
>
> c. Any winter tire recommendations ?


It's the tires.

You put snows on ALL FOUR CORNERS. It doesn't do you a bit of good to
do just two.

The absolute best tires for average people are the Nokian WR.
All-season, quite in the summer, plenty of traction, but absolute demon
traction in the winter. Amazing things. Designed for winter use, but
also as all-seasons.

The only step up from Nokian WR would be dedicated snow/winter tires
that you swap out during the summer.

Nokian WR takes all that pain away of having extra wheels/tires around
and where to store them, swapping them out twice a year, etc.

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 07:11 am
ACAR
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

On May 5, 11:22 am, "Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el...@nastydesigns.com>
wrote:
> In article <I6GdnVO1GfWuvoLVnZ2dnUVZ_gSdn...@comcast.com>,
>
>
>
> "Robert11" <rgs...@notme.com> wrote:
> > He has always been complaining about how poorly it climbs most any kind of
> > hill when there is snow on it, even a little.
> > Compares it to his last car, which was a Mercury Sable sedan, and just great
> > in this regard.
> > Uses low(er) gears, but this doesn't seem to help much.

>
> > Questions:

>
> > a. Is this inability a function of the car design, or most likely just the
> > original tires that came with the car ?

>
> > b. If, this winter, he puts on snow tires, or something better than the
> > "all-weather" compromise that is now on, and that they love to sell for
> > every possible condition, can he get away with just the two front tires ?

>
> > Or, would this cause fish-tailing or other control type problems ?

>
> > c. Any winter tire recommendations ?

>
> It's the tires.
>
> You put snows on ALL FOUR CORNERS. It doesn't do you a bit of good to
> do just two.
>
> The absolute best tires for average people are the Nokian WR.
> All-season, quite in the summer, plenty of traction, but absolute demon
> traction in the winter. Amazing things. Designed for winter use, but
> also as all-seasons.
>
> The only step up from Nokian WR would be dedicated snow/winter tires
> that you swap out during the summer.
>
> Nokian WR takes all that pain away of having extra wheels/tires around
> and where to store them, swapping them out twice a year, etc.


Yup, Elmo's right.

Accord OEM tries are awful. There are other all season tires that
perform much better such as the Nokians. But 4 winter tires are the
way to go if you live where it snows a lot. Nokians are the best
winter tires but others (www.tirerack.com) may be easier to come by. I
used a set of Yokohama Avid TRZ all season touring tires this winter
with good results but winters are fairly mild where I live.

Putting 2 winters tires onto the front will certainly be entertaining
for observers the first time the brakes are applied on a snowy
downhill.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 08:09 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

In article
<d74cc603-8b87-4369-bf7b-5a6cf19dbb8a@y21g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
ACAR <dimndsonmywndshld@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Putting 2 winters tires onto the front will certainly be entertaining
> for observers the first time the brakes are applied on a snowy
> downhill.


hehehehe Absolutely.

When you change the relative traction of the tires, you change the
handling away from what the manufacturer dialed in and put it into
unknown territory.

Snow tires (better traction) on the front only = oversteer.

Snow tires (better traction) on the rear only = understeer.

Snow tires (better traction) on all four corners = front to rear
relative handling as designed by the manufacturer.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 09:50 am
Jeff
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Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <I6GdnVO1GfWuvoLVnZ2dnUVZ_gSdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
> "Robert11" <rgsros@notme.com> wrote:
>
>> He has always been complaining about how poorly it climbs most any kind of
>> hill when there is snow on it, even a little.
>> Compares it to his last car, which was a Mercury Sable sedan, and just great
>> in this regard.
>> Uses low(er) gears, but this doesn't seem to help much.
>>
>> Questions:
>>
>> a. Is this inability a function of the car design, or most likely just the
>> original tires that came with the car ?
>>
>> b. If, this winter, he puts on snow tires, or something better than the
>> "all-weather" compromise that is now on, and that they love to sell for
>> every possible condition, can he get away with just the two front tires ?
>>
>> Or, would this cause fish-tailing or other control type problems ?
>>
>> c. Any winter tire recommendations ?

>
> It's the tires.
>
> You put snows on ALL FOUR CORNERS. It doesn't do you a bit of good to
> do just two.


Incorrect. Putting two snow tires on just the front will greatly improve
traction going uphill. So it does do more than a bit of good to put snow
tires on just the front two wheels (or even just the back two wheels).
But, as you point out in another post, the car will have some control
issues when one tries to stop with snow tires on the front two wheels,
especially going downhill.

So, the best thing is to put snow tires on all four wheels.

Jeff

> The absolute best tires for average people are the Nokian WR.
> All-season, quite in the summer, plenty of traction, but absolute demon
> traction in the winter. Amazing things. Designed for winter use, but
> also as all-seasons.
>
> The only step up from Nokian WR would be dedicated snow/winter tires
> that you swap out during the summer.
>
> Nokian WR takes all that pain away of having extra wheels/tires around
> and where to store them, swapping them out twice a year, etc.
>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 10:16 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

In article <6nZTj.2751$5_1.1726@trndny05>,
Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > You put snows on ALL FOUR CORNERS. It doesn't do you a bit of good to
> > do just two.

>
> Incorrect. Putting two snow tires on just the front will greatly improve
> traction going uphill. So it does do more than a bit of good to put snow
> tires on just the front two wheels (or even just the back two wheels).


Are you going uphill 100% of the time?

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 10:23 am
Jeff
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <6nZTj.2751$5_1.1726@trndny05>,
> Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> You put snows on ALL FOUR CORNERS. It doesn't do you a bit of good to
>>> do just two.

>> Incorrect. Putting two snow tires on just the front will greatly improve
>> traction going uphill. So it does do more than a bit of good to put snow
>> tires on just the front two wheels (or even just the back two wheels).

>
> Are you going uphill 100% of the time?


You said: "It doesn't do you a bit of good to do just two." That
incorrect. As I pointed out, having just two front tires will improve
traction going uphill, but will also have negative consequences going
downhill.

Funny how you deleted those comments.

Of course, I don't go uphill all the time. But, putting just two tires
on will improve the uphill traction, which is doing more than a bit of good.

And, putting snow tires on all four corners is best option, as I also
pointed out.

You don't need to a jerk.

Jeff
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 10:44 am
Nick Cassimatis
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-3AF06E.10165806052008@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <6nZTj.2751$5_1.1726@trndny05>,
> Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > You put snows on ALL FOUR CORNERS. It doesn't do you a bit of good to
>> > do just two.

>>
>> Incorrect. Putting two snow tires on just the front will greatly improve
>> traction going uphill. So it does do more than a bit of good to put snow
>> tires on just the front two wheels (or even just the back two wheels).

>
> Are you going uphill 100% of the time?
>


I seem to remember my parents telling me they walked to AND from school, in
the snow, uphill both ways...
--
Nick

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 11:10 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

In article <nRZTj.2734$GC1.615@trndny07>,
Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:

> > Are you going uphill 100% of the time?

>
> You said: "It doesn't do you a bit of good to do just two." That
> incorrect. As I pointed out, having just two front tires will improve
> traction going uphill, but will also have negative consequences going
> downhill.
>
> Funny how you deleted those comments.


No, I just spoke about real world.

In the real world, you don't go uphill 100% of the time.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 06 May 2008, 07:27 pm
Roadrunner NG
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Accord & Snowy Hills Questions

Sure feels like uphill all the time to me!


"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-1BA1E8.11100306052008@nntp3.usenetserver.com...
> In article <nRZTj.2734$GC1.615@trndny07>,
> Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> > Are you going uphill 100% of the time?

>>
>> You said: "It doesn't do you a bit of good to do just two." That
>> incorrect. As I pointed out, having just two front tires will improve
>> traction going uphill, but will also have negative consequences going
>> downhill.
>>
>> Funny how you deleted those comments.

>
> No, I just spoke about real world.
>
> In the real world, you don't go uphill 100% of the time.
>



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