Honda Car Forum

On 2008-05-05, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
> Brent P wrote:
>> On 2008-05-05, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>> Brent P wrote:
>>>> On 2008-05-04, jim beam <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>>> Brent P wrote:
>>>>>> In article <4PCdnTtvcanR1IjVnZ2dnUVZ_r-vnZ2d@speakeasy.net>, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>> Brent P wrote:
>>>>>>>> In article <EpidnbbGDrydKonVnZ2dnUVZ_oWdnZ2d@speakeasy.net> , jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Brent P wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> In article <w-2dnbnuLIZqC4nVnZ2dnUVZ_jqdnZ2d@speakeasy.net>, jim beam wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> but you "maintain" a 944 - if ever a vehicle were uneconomic, that is
>>>>>>>>>>> it. otoh, i can get a whole new engine for my honda for ~$300. less if
>>>>>>>>>>> i buy locally. for that money, i can throw in a whole new motor every
>>>>>>>>>>> year if i want to. "no longer be economical" my ass.
>>>>>>>>>> If you value your labor at zero.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> er, actually, the labor to rebuild a motor is /way/ more than to replace.
>>>>>>>> Um, the question is having gauges to prevent needing either vs. driving
>>>>>>>> it into the ground and replacing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> eh? you're the one who said "If you value your labor at zero".
>>>>>> If you consider the 'cost' to be $300 then you value your labor at zero.
>>>>>> Duh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> the labor of removal and fitting is the same on both sides of the
>>>>> equation - it therefore cancels out. there is no labor for re-work if
>>>>> simply replacing the motor, so the cost /saving/ matters.
>>>> That's not the question. The point is your total cost is '$300' only if
>>>> you don't value your labor.
>>> no, you cancel out both sides of the equation. the labor to remove and
>>> refit an engine is the same on both sides, whether it's rebuilt or
>>> replaced. the equation then becomes /my/ cost to replace at $300 vs.
>>> /his/ cost to rebuild, with parts, plus a ton /more/ labor.
>>
>> Again that is *NOT* the question. Nate said with proper instrumentation
>> he could spot an impending failure before it became a siezed engine and
>> be repaired without yanking it out. You said a replacement engine is
>> only $300, so who cares, just run it until it becomes a paperweight. I
>> responded that it's only $300 if you value your labor at zero.
>>
>> Try to follow along.
>>
>>
>
> oh, i get it, you can't argue the point /you/ raised, so now you want to
> change it back onto another topic, and ignore anything that doesn't
> suit. sorry, my mistake.

Nice projection. Do try to follow the conversation. I explained it to
you. But, go ahead and keep siezing up engines since you don't consider
your labor to be worth anything.

In article <DNidnSlbDv5B9YPVnZ2dnUVZ_qmlnZ2d@texas.net>,
Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:

> > Again: that "basic" instrumentation is beyond 99.9% of the auto buying
> > and driving public.
> >
>
> That's ridiculous, anyone that can tell time can read an oil pressure
> gauge.

<snort> Sure. Uh-huh.

You don't get out much, do you.

In article <8eqdncGW5p-pwIPVnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@comcast.com>,
Brent P <tetraethylleadREMOVETHIS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > Again: that "basic" instrumentation is beyond 99.9% of the auto buying
> > and driving public.
>
> Most, if not all the cars on the US market today perform at levels
> beyond a similiar percentage of the auto buying and driving public, yet
> automakers aren't limiting themselves to basic transportion like a base
> model '60 ford falcon.

So? At the same time, they're taking away instrumentation.

Selling cars is about marketing. You find what hits the buyer's hot
button. Massive instrumentation doesn't do that.

In article <fvlogf01ocv@news2.newsguy.com>,
Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net> wrote:

> > That's why I avoid the German marques like crazy, and stick with Honda
> > or Toyota.
> >
> > It's simple statistics.
> >
>
> I'm not aware of any readily available statistics on really, really long
> term use, but if you're talking about cars from the 80's the Krauts had
> it down back then.

Sure they did.

And then they realized that they'd rather sell highly expensive 3 year
wonders to rich idiots who are happy to lease and flip. THAT'S what
keeps the money pumping into the company.

EVERYONE knows the story of M-B in this country. From tanks to trash.
It was a business decision--to build junk.

On May 4, 9:56*pm, Steve <n...@spam.thanks> wrote:
> Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> > In article <fvlbsr3...@news2.newsguy.com>,
> > *Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote:
>
> >>> People don't know the basic functions. *And you can't make them know.. *
> >>> You can't make knowing those functions be required for them to get a
> >>> driver's license.
> >> Why not? *Driving a vehicle carries with it some sense of
> >> responsibility.
>
> > You wouldn't make much of a politician, I'll tell you that.
>
> Wow. So you CAN compliment someone!

Seriously. I took it as such

nate

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:



.....you don't want the engineers who have to know the
> temperature at the top of the piston ("just in case, to avoid failure")
> to be involved in managing the money pump that is an auto manufacturer.
>


Often the opposite is true.

"Bean counters" dictate what engineers have to work with and how. Good
example might be the Accord tranny problems of a few years back. Another
is marketing sales that make promises and in order to meet traget
production rates/timelines, engineers are forced to take shortcuts.

During my working career, I saw this to be the case all too often.

JT

In article
<EPMTj.295572$cQ1.160937@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
Grumpy AuContraire <Grumpy@ExtraGrumpyville.com> wrote:

> ....you don't want the engineers who have to know the
> > temperature at the top of the piston ("just in case, to avoid failure")
> > to be involved in managing the money pump that is an auto manufacturer.
> >
>
>
> Often the opposite is true.

There are engineers who understand business (good), and there are
beancounters who give zero credibility to the engineers and who have no
idea and don't care whether their company sells cars or toilet paper
(bad).

But the engineer who knows only engineering and knows only that in his
world it's important to know the temperature at the top of the piston,
is not the guy you want running the company. At all.