Honda Car Forum

Nate Nagel <njnagel@roosters.net> wrote in
news:ftbr6n1273o@news3.newsguy.com:

> Ashton Crusher wrote:
>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
>>>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
>>>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
>>>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
>>>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>>>
>>>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>>>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>>>
>>>Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
>>>engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
>>>where the head gasket is blown?
>>>
>>>Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
>>>be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
>>>ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>>
>>>from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>>
>>>several years down the road.)
>>>
>>>TIA,
>>>Bubba
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, I would. I've had many vehicles with real gauges and a few of
>> them overheated and I never noticed the gauge go up because it
>> happened so fast (blown hose). I might have noticed an idiot light.
>> I'd like to have both in an ideal setup. It's nice to know what's
>> happening with water temp on a long uphill, esp if you are towing
>> something. My 99 Mustang GT has a temp, oil and volt gauge but all
>> are just idiot gauges. At least on the mustang you can put the
>> Dashboard odometer into "diagnostic mode" and it will give a true
>> digital readout of water temp. I think most idiot lights for water
>> temp are set to go on at about 235 degrees. If everything is good in
>> the cooling system it should not boil till it hits 260 degrees.
>
> I agree, I think the ideal setup would be gauges with an idiot light
> right inside the gauge. Unfortunately if you want something like that
> you have to do it yourself.
>
> nate
>

Many gas gauges do that;when you get down too far,the warning light comes
on.

With today's modern LCD dashes,such a thing ought to be easy to
implement.Have a bright LED behind the hi segments that would light when
those segments are activated.

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Jim Yanik wrote:
> Ashton Crusher <demi@moore.net> wrote in
> news:e0miv3tnkhrffh49i9moc8iv12hv679n1u@4ax.com:
>
>> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
>>> miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
>>> vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
>>> Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
>>> gauge, just an "idiot light."
>>>
>>> Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>>> temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>>>
>>> Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
>>> engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
>>> where the head gasket is blown?
>>>
>>> Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
>>> be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
>>> ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>> >from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>>> several years down the road.)
>>>
>>> TIA,
>>> Bubba
>>
>> Yes, I would. I've had many vehicles with real gauges and a few of
>> them overheated and I never noticed the gauge go up because it
>> happened so fast (blown hose). I might have noticed an idiot light.
>> I'd like to have both in an ideal setup. It's nice to know what's
>> happening with water temp on a long uphill, esp if you are towing
>> something. My 99 Mustang GT has a temp, oil and volt gauge but all
>> are just idiot gauges. At least on the mustang you can put the
>> Dashboard odometer into "diagnostic mode" and it will give a true
>> digital readout of water temp. I think most idiot lights for water
>> temp are set to go on at about 235 degrees. If everything is good in
>> the cooling system it should not boil till it hits 260 degrees.
>>
>
> OTOH,my 94 Integra GS-R had a stuck thermostat,and I noticed the temp gauge
> rising when I stopped and falling to 'Cold' when I was driving. I got the
> parts and fixed it before anything worse happened.
> And the last car I had with only an idiot light blew a rad hose (during a
> Buffalo blizzard) and left me stranded out in the middle of
> nowhere(Millersport Rd),except that a generous person stopped and gave me
> and my bud a ride ALL the why home,quite out of their way. The idiot light
> was useless to me.
>
> Conclusion;idiot lights are for idiots.


in the civic, the temp gauge pointer is calibrated to be flat line from
85C to 100C. that's a pretty broad range with zero needle movement,
especially when you consider the thermostat starts opening at 78C and is
fully open at 90C, and it makes any needle movement other than "hot"
pretty much meaningless - "idiot light" territory.

while i "like" to have a gauge myself, engineering reality is that it
doesn't mean much in this situation and an idiot light would probably be
a better single choice if, like me, you just happen to be distracted and
don't check the gauges and end up cooking the motor one day. a light is
much more noticeable.

On Apr 6, 10:27*pm, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote innews:ftbr6n1273o@news3.newsguy.com:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
> >>>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
> >>>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
> >>>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
> >>>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>
> >>>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
> >>>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>
> >>>Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
> >>>engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
> >>>where the head gasket is blown?
>
> >>>Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
> >>>be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
> >>>ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>
> >>>from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>
> >>>several years down the road.)
>
> >>>TIA,
> >>>Bubba
>
> >> Yes, I would. *I've had many vehicles with real gauges and a few of
> >> them overheated and I never noticed the gauge go up because it
> >> happened so fast (blown hose). *I might have noticed an idiot light.
> >> I'd like to have both in an ideal setup. *It's nice to know what's
> >> happening with water temp on a long uphill, esp if you are towing
> >> something. *My 99 Mustang GT has a temp, oil and volt gauge but all
> >> are just idiot gauges. *At least on the mustang you can put the
> >> Dashboard odometer into "diagnostic mode" and it will give a true
> >> digital readout of water temp. *I think most idiot lights for water
> >> temp are set to go on at about 235 degrees. *If everything is good in
> >> the cooling system it should not boil till it hits 260 degrees.
>
> > I agree, I think the ideal setup would be gauges with an idiot light
> > right inside the gauge. *Unfortunately if you want something like that
> > you have to do it yourself.
>
> > nate
>
> Many gas gauges do that;when you get down too far,the warning light comes
> on.
>
> With today's modern LCD dashes,such a thing ought to be easy to
> implement.Have a bright LED behind the hi segments that would light when
> those segments are activated.

Now that I think about it I think my Porsche works like that, but I've
never seen the warning lights even bulb check. My fluke says
everything is working fine, so I don't know what gives.

nate

"N8N" <njnagel@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:794aa864-ced8-4d53-ab3d-b8e35018aec0@e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
On Apr 6, 10:27 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
> Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote
> innews:ftbr6n1273o@news3.newsguy.com:

> > Ashton Crusher wrote:
> >> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> >>>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
> >>>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
> >>>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
> >>>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
> >>>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>
> >>>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
> >>>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?

Even with a proper temperature gauge, you need to consider whether the gauge
is in a visible place on the dashboard. First prize for "Most Stupid
Position for Temperature Gauge" has to go to the Renault 14 (probably early
1980s vintage) which placed the gauge low-down on the central console,
behind the gear lever. Not a place that you will frequently check it as you
look at the everyday gauges like speedometer and fuel, and warning lights
such as ignition, oil pressure and handbrake.

Many years ago my sister was driving my mother's Renault 14 shortly after
she learned to drive and wrote off the engine because a radiator hose burst
and the only warning that the engine was overheating was this insignificant
gauge on an obscure part of the dashboard.

On Apr 7, 11:34*am, "Mortimer" <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
> "N8N" <njna...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:794aa864-ced8-4d53-ab3d-b8e35018aec0@e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Apr 6, 10:27 pm, Jim Yanik <jya...@abuse.gov> wrote:
>
> > Nate Nagel <njna...@roosters.net> wrote
> > innews:ftbr6n1273o@news3.newsguy.com:
> > > Ashton Crusher wrote:
> > >> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
> > >>>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
> > >>>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
> > >>>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
> > >>>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
> > >>>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>
> > >>>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
> > >>>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>
> Even with a proper temperature gauge, you need to consider whether the gauge
> is in a visible place on the dashboard. First prize for "Most Stupid
> Position for Temperature Gauge" has to go to the Renault 14 (probably early
> 1980s vintage) which placed the gauge low-down on the central console,
> behind the gear lever. Not a place that you will frequently check it as you
> look at the everyday gauges like speedometer and fuel, and warning lights
> such as ignition, oil pressure and handbrake.
>
> Many years ago my sister was driving my mother's Renault 14 shortly after
> she learned to drive and wrote off the engine because a radiator hose burst
> and the only warning that the engine was overheating was this insignificant
> gauge on an obscure part of the dashboard.

Under the hood, drill the dasboard, over the dashboard, place it on
the left pillar. That's too time consuming.

Just get the "Scan Gauge" and plug it into the obdII diagnostics port.
Besides it being a trip computer, one of the gauges is a water
temperature digital readout.
D.

FYI on your civic if you buy a used cluster (I got mine from Ebay) with a
tach, it is a direct swap and the tach works without any further modification.


Kinda neat, frustrating at the same time.

And if you want to keep your original mileage on the odometer, just swap out
the center gauge cluster. I bought a US cluster for my canadian car, so I
didn't want to have to worry about converting from miles to kms.

It took me 10 minutes to do the swap.

t

2000 Civic hatch wrote:
>On Apr 4, 2:10 pm, bubbabu...@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> > If you maintain the vehicle well you should not have any cooling system
>> > problems. If a guage is that important to you you can always install an
>[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>> how is it mounted on the dashboard/instrument panel? How much does it
>> cost?
>
>My 5 speed 2000 Civic has/had/offered no tach not even as an option
>(thank goodness it DOES have a temp gauge) - it would have been such a
>pain to install an after market (tach) I learned to do without.

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200804/1

bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
> miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
> vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
> Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
> gauge, just an "idiot light."

Just another sign of the "drivers are stupid, they don't need to know
anything" mentality of modern cars. Well, not JUST modern cars- General
Motors used nothing but idiot lights on most of its cars through the 60s
and 70s, but GM was the exception. Then in the 80s, Ford started using
"gauges" that were controlled by pressure switches for oil pressure- so
that they either read "normal" or "zero". Yeah, real helpful, but it
stopped people complaining about "the oil pressure changes when I speed up!"

From a driver information standpoint, the BEST setup is a gauge AND a
"check gauges" light that turns on (and sometimes rings a chime) when a
gauge is out of range. Its easy to overlook a gauge that's slowly
creeping out of range.

<bubbabubbs@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:a2844e70-1367-4514-a9e4-2bc5902651ac@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
> miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
> vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
> Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
> gauge, just an "idiot light."
>
> Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
> temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>
> Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
> engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
> where the head gasket is blown?
>
> Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
> be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
> ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
> from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
> several years down the road.)

Don't be so sure that the temeprature gauge is any better than the idiot
light. Many US and Japanese manufacturers now install temperature gauges
that are controlled by the engine computer (PCM) instead of directly by a
temperature transducer. They move upwards sort of like a "real" temperature
gauge as the car warms up, but it is an act controlled by the PCM. The
guage moves only in response to the commands from the PCM. Unless the car
overheats, the gauge is commanded to the "normal" position. Some have an
intermediate position between "normal" and "hot," some don't. Either way, it
is only a little better than the "idiot" light you don't like. I don't know
if the cars you mentioned have this sort of guage. I know my Ford Fusion and
Nissan Frontier do. I think my SO's RAV4 does as well, but I have not had a
chance to review the wiring diagrams to be sure. I suspect if you want
"real" gauges you will need to install them yourself, or buy a German car.

Ed


>
> TIA,
> Bubba

In article <K5adnaTv0JzNSmbanZ2dnUVZ_saknZ2d@texas.net>,
Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:

> Just another sign of the "drivers are stupid, they don't need to know
> anything" mentality of modern cars.

Do you know the refrigerant pressure in your refrigerator? No? Why not?

Do you know the temperature inside your fridge? Oh, I see--you added a
thermometer so you'd know. The little "1-6" dial isn't enough for you,
so you added something the manufacturer didn't include. And yet you
bought the fridge anyhow.

Elmo P. Shagnasty wrote:
> In article <K5adnaTv0JzNSmbanZ2dnUVZ_saknZ2d@texas.net>,
> Steve <no@spam.thanks> wrote:
>
>> Just another sign of the "drivers are stupid, they don't need to know
>> anything" mentality of modern cars.
>
> Do you know the refrigerant pressure in your refrigerator? No? Why not?
>
> Do you know the temperature inside your fridge? Oh, I see--you added a
> thermometer so you'd know. The little "1-6" dial isn't enough for you,
> so you added something the manufacturer didn't include. And yet you
> bought the fridge anyhow.
>

good analogy!