Honda Car Forum

In article
<a2844e70-1367-4514-a9e4-2bc5902651ac@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:

> Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
> temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?

Sure.

But if it really bothers you, it's easy to get devices that plug into
the OBD-II port and give you more information about your car than you
ever want to know. For example:

http://www.scangauge.com/

"Elmo P. Shagnasty"...
> In article
> bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>> temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>
> Sure.
>
> But if it really bothers you, it's easy to get devices that plug into
> the OBD-II port and give you more information about your car than you
> ever want to know. For example:
>
> http://www.scangauge.com/
>
I agree with Elmo on this.
Tomes

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:

>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>
>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?

Yes. On many of the cars that have gauges now the gauge is nothing
more than an idiot light with a needle. The gauge is either cold,
normal or hot. Same with oil pressure... It's either 0 or normal. I
was told manufacturers started doing this because people would bring a
car back in for warranty repair when the gauge reading was still
"normal" but not exactly like it always was.


>Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
>engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
>where the head gasket is blown?

They aren't as good as a gauge, but really who has cooling system
problems anymore? The last time I had a car overheat it was because a
hose blew out and in that case neither the gauge nor the idiot light
detected it in time to avoid damage. Since neither was in water
anymore they didn't detect the rising temp until waayyy to late.


>
>Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
>be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
>ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>several years down the road.)
>

I wouldn't upgrade just for that feature. Replace all the hoses every
five years and don't worry about it.

"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <elmop@nastydesigns.com> wrote in news:elmop-
5B3E3E.06302805042008@nntp2.usenetserver.com:

> In article
><a2844e70-1367-4514-a9e4-2bc5902651ac@n58g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>,
> bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>> Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>> temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>
> Sure.
>
> But if it really bothers you, it's easy to get devices that plug into
> the OBD-II port and give you more information about your car than you
> ever want to know. For example:
>
> http://www.scangauge.com/
>

why should you have to BUY what should be standard,that gives important
information?

--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net

Mike wrote:
>
> "Mike Walsh" <spam_sucks@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
> news:47F6750C.D65AF225@bellsouth.net...
> >
> > An idiot light might not come on soon enough to prevent engine damage. On
> > some vehicles if you loose coolant pressure because of a leak the boiling
> > temperature will be too low to cause the idiot light to come on.
>
> I don't believe that is true. The coolant does not have to boil for the
> light to come on. The temp sensor only senses the temperature of the water, it
> has no way to determine if it is boiling or not. What may happen with a sudden
> leak is the coolant level will drop low enough that the temp sensor is no
> longer immersed in coolant. Being the sensor is no longer in contact with the
> coolant it will not turn the light on until it is too late.

If there is no pressure e.g. because of a loose cap the coolant can slowly boil away without the idiot light coming on. The same is true if you use only water with no antifreeze. The boiling point of water at sea level pressure is 212 degF. With 50% antifreeze and a high pressure radiator cap the boiling point will be about 270 degF. An idiot light might not come on until 240 degF.
You are correct about the light not coming on if the coolant is low. I have seen engines that became so hot that the the head gasket blows and the driver swears that the idiot light never came on.

--
Mike Walsh

In article <Xns9A7774AFFDAF4jyanikkuanet@64.209.0.87>,
Jim Yanik <jyanik@abuse.gov> wrote:

> > But if it really bothers you, it's easy to get devices that plug into
> > the OBD-II port and give you more information about your car than you
> > ever want to know. For example:
> >
> > http://www.scangauge.com/
> >
>
> why should you have to BUY what should be standard,that gives important
> information?

Define "should". ALL cars are built on compromise. This particular
compromise is very small, and shouldn't make someone not want the car.

That they made a decision not to include it, is immaterial. If you want
the car, the $160 for a Scangauge may be easy enough to swallow to give
you the car AND the feature that you want in it.

bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
> I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
> miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
> vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
> Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
> gauge, just an "idiot light."
>
> Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
> temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>
> Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
> engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
> where the head gasket is blown?

depends if you stop when it first comes on or not.

truth is, water gauges are an historic anachronism. if you look at the
typical car's temp gauge, they don't have a linear response, it's a step
function. that means that when it's in the "normal" zone, there can be
considerable temperature variation and you'll never see any difference
in indicator position.

given that it's not really any interest when the coolant is cold, and
there is no visible variability under normal operating conditions, that
only leaves the "too hot" zone to be of any real interest - and there's
no reason it can't be served by an indicator light. in fact, it may be
a good deal more useful than a honda where if you don't happen to look
down at the gauge to catch a problem in time, you can easily cook an
engine. most people notice right away when a light comes on.



>
> Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
> be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
> ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
> from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
> several years down the road.)
>
> TIA,
> Bubba

On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:

>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>
>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>
>Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
>engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
>where the head gasket is blown?
>
>Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
>be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
>ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>several years down the road.)
>
>TIA,
>Bubba


Yes, I would. I've had many vehicles with real gauges and a few of
them overheated and I never noticed the gauge go up because it
happened so fast (blown hose). I might have noticed an idiot light.
I'd like to have both in an ideal setup. It's nice to know what's
happening with water temp on a long uphill, esp if you are towing
something. My 99 Mustang GT has a temp, oil and volt gauge but all
are just idiot gauges. At least on the mustang you can put the
Dashboard odometer into "diagnostic mode" and it will give a true
digital readout of water temp. I think most idiot lights for water
temp are set to go on at about 235 degrees. If everything is good in
the cooling system it should not boil till it hits 260 degrees.

Ashton Crusher wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
>>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
>>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
>>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
>>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>>
>>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>>
>>Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
>>engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
>>where the head gasket is blown?
>>
>>Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
>>be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
>>ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>
>>from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>
>>several years down the road.)
>>
>>TIA,
>>Bubba
>
>
>
> Yes, I would. I've had many vehicles with real gauges and a few of
> them overheated and I never noticed the gauge go up because it
> happened so fast (blown hose). I might have noticed an idiot light.
> I'd like to have both in an ideal setup. It's nice to know what's
> happening with water temp on a long uphill, esp if you are towing
> something. My 99 Mustang GT has a temp, oil and volt gauge but all
> are just idiot gauges. At least on the mustang you can put the
> Dashboard odometer into "diagnostic mode" and it will give a true
> digital readout of water temp. I think most idiot lights for water
> temp are set to go on at about 235 degrees. If everything is good in
> the cooling system it should not boil till it hits 260 degrees.

I agree, I think the ideal setup would be gauges with an idiot light
right inside the gauge. Unfortunately if you want something like that
you have to do it yourself.

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

Ashton Crusher <demi@moore.net> wrote in
news:e0miv3tnkhrffh49i9moc8iv12hv679n1u@4ax.com:

> On Fri, 4 Apr 2008 10:56:27 -0700 (PDT), bubbabubbs@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>I've been thinking about what my next commute car is going to be. 80
>>miles/day, it's just me and my briefcase, so thinking of a small
>>vehicle with great gas mileage. Yaris hatchback, Scion xD, or Honda
>>Fit would work for me. Problem is, none of them has a water temp
>>gauge, just an "idiot light."
>>
>>Would you consider buying a car (brand new) that only has the water
>>temp "idiot light", but no water temp _gauge_ ?
>>
>>Btw, do these "idiot lights" come on early enough to prevent major
>>engine damage, or only after the engine has overheated to the point
>>where the head gasket is blown?
>>
>>Also, the next bigger models that do have the water temp gauge would
>>be Toyota Corolla, Matrix, or Honda Civic. But the extra purchase/
>>ownership cost may not even offset the possible repair costs resulting
>>from a Yaris/Fit/xD engine overheating (which, if happens, would be
>>several years down the road.)
>>
>>TIA,
>>Bubba
>
>
> Yes, I would. I've had many vehicles with real gauges and a few of
> them overheated and I never noticed the gauge go up because it
> happened so fast (blown hose). I might have noticed an idiot light.
> I'd like to have both in an ideal setup. It's nice to know what's
> happening with water temp on a long uphill, esp if you are towing
> something. My 99 Mustang GT has a temp, oil and volt gauge but all
> are just idiot gauges. At least on the mustang you can put the
> Dashboard odometer into "diagnostic mode" and it will give a true
> digital readout of water temp. I think most idiot lights for water
> temp are set to go on at about 235 degrees. If everything is good in
> the cooling system it should not boil till it hits 260 degrees.
>

OTOH,my 94 Integra GS-R had a stuck thermostat,and I noticed the temp gauge
rising when I stopped and falling to 'Cold' when I was driving. I got the
parts and fixed it before anything worse happened.
And the last car I had with only an idiot light blew a rad hose (during a
Buffalo blizzard) and left me stranded out in the middle of
nowhere(Millersport Rd),except that a generous person stopped and gave me
and my bud a ride ALL the why home,quite out of their way. The idiot light
was useless to me.

Conclusion;idiot lights are for idiots.



--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
kua.net