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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27 Mar 2008, 03:10 pm
M.A. Stewart
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Default Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
on liquid H2 (or is it H?).

What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?




--


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 27 Mar 2008, 06:54 pm
Larry in AZ
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Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

Waiving the right to remain silent, cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart)
said:

> Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
> on liquid H2 (or is it H?).
>
> What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?


" Most of the hydrogen produced today is consumed on site, such as at an oil
refinery, and is not sold on the market. From large-scale production,
hydrogen costs $0.32/lb if it is consumed on site. When hydrogen is sold on
the market, the cost of liquefying the hydrogen and transporting it to the
user must be added to the production cost. This can increase the selling
price to $1.00 - 1.40/lb for delivered liquid hydrogen. Some users who
require relatively small amounts of very pure hydrogen (such as the
electronics industry) may use electrolyzers to produce high-purity hydrogen
at their facilities. The cost of this hydrogen, which depends on the cost of
the electricity used to split the water, is typically $1.00 - $2.00/lb."

http://www.powernova.com/hydro/faqs.html#06

--
Larry J. - Remove spamtrap in ALLCAPS to e-mail

"A lack of common sense is now considered a disability,
with all the privileges that this entails."
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 27 Mar 2008, 07:20 pm
AZ Nomad
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

On 27 Mar 2008 20:10:43 GMT, M.A. Stewart <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote:
>Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
>on liquid H2 (or is it H?).


>What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?


If you have to know how much it costs then you can't afford it.
Probably around a thousand dollars a gallon, unsubsidized.




>--



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 29 Mar 2008, 06:44 am
Tony Harding
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

Larry in AZ wrote:
> Waiving the right to remain silent, cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (M.A. Stewart)
> said:
>
>> Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
>> on liquid H2 (or is it H?).
>>
>> What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?

>
> " Most of the hydrogen produced today is consumed on site, such as at an oil
> refinery, and is not sold on the market. From large-scale production,
> hydrogen costs $0.32/lb if it is consumed on site. When hydrogen is sold on
> the market, the cost of liquefying the hydrogen and transporting it to the
> user must be added to the production cost. This can increase the selling
> price to $1.00 - 1.40/lb for delivered liquid hydrogen. Some users who
> require relatively small amounts of very pure hydrogen (such as the
> electronics industry) may use electrolyzers to produce high-purity hydrogen
> at their facilities. The cost of this hydrogen, which depends on the cost of
> the electricity used to split the water, is typically $1.00 - $2.00/lb."
>
> http://www.powernova.com/hydro/faqs.html#06


Interesting post, thanks.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 29 Mar 2008, 12:36 pm
Justbob30
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Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

So, what is your source of this information? per Honda, it gets closer to
the equivalent of 60 MPG with a range of 270 miles, are you sure your
decimal point is not in the wrong place?

http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ll/comparison/
http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ked-questions/


"M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
news:fsgv03$3in$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
> Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
> on liquid H2 (or is it H?).
>
> What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 29 Mar 2008, 03:09 pm
Jeff
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Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

Justbob30 wrote:
> So, what is your source of this information? per Honda, it gets closer
> to the equivalent of 60 MPG with a range of 270 miles, are you sure your
> decimal point is not in the wrong place?
>
> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ll/comparison/
> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ked-questions/


I don't see where either say the vehicle gets 60 MPG. Rather, one graph
says it has 60% efficiency, which means 60% of the energy in the
hydrogen is converted to motion compared to about 20% in a gasoline engine.

In the NY Times article
(http://automobiles.honda.com/images/...s/NY_TIMES.pdf) it
does say that it gets the equivalent of 68 MPG, meaning that it goes 69
miles on amount of energy as there is in a gallon of gasoline.

> "M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
> news:fsgv03$3in$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>> Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
>> on liquid H2 (or is it H?).
>>
>> What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 31 Mar 2008, 05:31 pm
M.A. Stewart
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

Jeff (kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com) writes:
> Justbob30 wrote:
>> So, what is your source of this information? per Honda, it gets closer
>> to the equivalent of 60 MPG with a range of 270 miles, are you sure your
>> decimal point is not in the wrong place?
>>
>> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ll/comparison/
>> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ked-questions/

>
> I don't see where either say the vehicle gets 60 MPG. Rather, one graph
> says it has 60% efficiency, which means 60% of the energy in the
> hydrogen is converted to motion compared to about 20% in a gasoline engine.
>
> In the NY Times article
> (http://automobiles.honda.com/images/...s/NY_TIMES.pdf) it
> does say that it gets the equivalent of 68 MPG, meaning that it goes 69
> miles on amount of energy as there is in a gallon of gasoline.
>
>> "M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
>> news:fsgv03$3in$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>>> Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
>>> on liquid H2 (or is it H?).
>>>
>>> What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>



I got the information from a Canadian magazine called 'Driven'.
It's a glossy, overpriced, psuedo car magazine. The Mar. 2008
edition on page 69 states a 171 litre fuel tank with a 435 kilometre
range. That works out to 5.97 MPG (U.S.).

171 L = 45.178 U.S. Gal

435 Km = 269.7 miles

Did the mag mess up?

What's a gallon of H2 cost?



--


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 31 Mar 2008, 08:25 pm
Jeff
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

M.A. Stewart wrote:
> Jeff (kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com) writes:
>> Justbob30 wrote:
>>> So, what is your source of this information? per Honda, it gets closer
>>> to the equivalent of 60 MPG with a range of 270 miles, are you sure your
>>> decimal point is not in the wrong place?
>>>
>>> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ll/comparison/
>>> http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-cla...ked-questions/

>> I don't see where either say the vehicle gets 60 MPG. Rather, one graph
>> says it has 60% efficiency, which means 60% of the energy in the
>> hydrogen is converted to motion compared to about 20% in a gasoline engine.
>>
>> In the NY Times article
>> (http://automobiles.honda.com/images/...s/NY_TIMES.pdf) it
>> does say that it gets the equivalent of 68 MPG, meaning that it goes 69
>> miles on amount of energy as there is in a gallon of gasoline.
>>
>>> "M.A. Stewart" <cf005@FreeNet.Carleton.CA> wrote in message
>>> news:fsgv03$3in$1@theodyn.ncf.ca...
>>>> Yikes... the Honda FCX Clarity (H2 fuel cell) gets 5.97 MPG (U.S. gallon)
>>>> on liquid H2 (or is it H?).
>>>>
>>>> What does a U.S. gallon of hydrogen cost?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>>

>
>
> I got the information from a Canadian magazine called 'Driven'.
> It's a glossy, overpriced, psuedo car magazine. The Mar. 2008
> edition on page 69 states a 171 litre fuel tank with a 435 kilometre
> range. That works out to 5.97 MPG (U.S.).
>
> 171 L = 45.178 U.S. Gal
>
> 435 Km = 269.7 miles
>
> Did the mag mess up?
>
> What's a gallon of H2 cost?


Hydrogen is a gas, not a liquid, unless it is real cold. A volume to
volume comparison is meaningless, because if you double the pressure of
the hydrogen gas, you double the amount of hydrogen in gas the hydrogen
tank.

I don't know how much hydrogen costs.

Jeff

>
> -
>
>

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02 Apr 2008, 04:42 am
JXStern
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:25:08 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I don't know how much hydrogen costs.


Well, a liquid gallon of hydrogen mixed with oxygen is about two
cents, but that's about 90% oxygen by weight, so say you need ten
gallons of the mixture, for about 20 cents. The separation is the
trick.

J.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 02 Apr 2008, 08:28 am
AZ Nomad
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Honda FCX Clarity 5.97 MPG!

On Wed, 02 Apr 2008 09:42:33 GMT, JXStern <JXSternChangeX2R@gte.net> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Apr 2008 01:25:08 GMT, Jeff <kidsdoc2000@hotmail.com>
>wrote:


>>I don't know how much hydrogen costs.


>Well, a liquid gallon of hydrogen mixed with oxygen is about two
>cents, but that's about 90% oxygen by weight, so say you need ten
>gallons of the mixture, for about 20 cents. The separation is the
>trick.


So is the pressurization and containment. Most people aren't interested
in powering thei vehicle with a hefty bag of hydrogen, not capable of
propeling their vehicle a whole 50'.
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