Honda Car Forum

Hi,


I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.

Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg

Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg

Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
something else going on here?

I would appreciate any help you could provide.

Thanks,
Nick

Alignment doesn't cause uneven wear. That is caused by something loose/ worn
in the suspension or unbalanced/ bent tire or rim. Once the uneven wear
starts even if the problem is fixed it will continue to wear uneven. The
only fix is replace it.

nick@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tbqqs31ku2kh3664d4m68h8i6boqaifdge@4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
>
> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>
> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>
> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>
> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
> something else going on here?
>
> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick

<nick@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:tbqqs31ku2kh3664d4m68h8i6boqaifdge@4ax.com...
> Hi,
>
>
> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>
> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>
> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>
> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
> something else going on here?
>
> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick
Regardless of what another poster said, alignment CAN and DOES cause tire
wear. There are three angles measured - toe, camber, and caster. Of the
three only caster will not cause abnormal wear (all else being equal). Toe
and camber cause very definitive tire wear. Toe either too positive or too
negative (that is the pointed toward each other or away from each other too
much) will cause wear on either the inside or outside edges but the wear
will exhibit feathering. Camber misalignment the top of the tire is either
leaning out or in too much. The wear will be either inside or outside edge
but the feathering is not present. The fix is to have the alignment measured
and set to specs after the front end components, that is, ball joints, tie
rod ends, etc. checked. The other poster was correct in that once abnormal
wear is well established it will continue to wear in the same fashion
sometimes. If the worn tire is rotated, in your case to a rear wheel, then
the wear might stop and a normal wear pattern established....

DaveD

On Mar 4, 10:32 am, n...@nowhere.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
> me,

News to me, too, I have never heard that before - sounds like bs. If
anything, I would think the driver's side would wear slightly faster,
due to always having extra weight on that side of the car - but it
would be so negligible as to be undetectable, I would think.

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA

nick@nowhere.com wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>
> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>
> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>
> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
> something else going on here?
>
> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>
> Thanks,
> Nick

you're getting uneven tire wear from two things:

1. alignment
2. uneven driveshaft length.

bottom line, the dealer is correct.

Ok so what happens if the before and after on the alignment are within
specs? I replaced the shock on the right side which is giving me the
problem last year. Would worn out bushings cause this much of a
problem? The car only has 69k miles.




You may recall I had a never ending problem with my inner walls on my
95 Integra. I gave up on it as no one could find out what the problem
was. The before and after alignments would be in spec. Not to say this
would be the case but I want to be prepared just in case this occurs
again.




On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:24:50 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

>nick@nowhere.com wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>
>> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
>> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
>> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
>> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
>> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
>> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
>> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>>
>> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
>> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>>
>> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
>> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>>
>> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
>> something else going on here?
>>
>> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Nick
>
>you're getting uneven tire wear from two things:
>
>1. alignment
>2. uneven driveshaft length.
>
>bottom line, the dealer is correct.

Also if this helps here is the printout from last year's alignment:


Front Left

Camber -0.3 Range -1.0 to 1.0
Caster 3.1 Range 1.8 to 3.8
Toe 0.02 Range -0.08 to 0.08
Included Angle 7.8
Turning Angle Diff 7.5

Front Right

Camber .2 Range -1.0 to 1.0
***Caster 1.5 Range 1.8 to 3.8
Toe -0.01 Range -0.08 to 0.08
Included Angle 7.9
Turning Angle Diff 8.1


Front
Cross Camber -0.4
Cross Caster 1.6
Cross SAI -0.2
Total Toe 0.01 Specified Range -0.16 to 0.16


On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 00:00:01 -0400, nick@nowhere.com wrote:

>Ok so what happens if the before and after on the alignment are within
>specs? I replaced the shock on the right side which is giving me the
>problem last year. Would worn out bushings cause this much of a
>problem? The car only has 69k miles.
>
>
>
>
>You may recall I had a never ending problem with my inner walls on my
>95 Integra. I gave up on it as no one could find out what the problem
>was. The before and after alignments would be in spec. Not to say this
>would be the case but I want to be prepared just in case this occurs
>again.
>
>
>
>
>On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:24:50 -0700, jim beam
><spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>>nick@nowhere.com wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
>>> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
>>> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
>>> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
>>> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
>>> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
>>> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>>>
>>> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
>>> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>>>
>>> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
>>> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>>>
>>> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
>>> something else going on here?
>>>
>>> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nick
>>
>>you're getting uneven tire wear from two things:
>>
>>1. alignment
>>2. uneven driveshaft length.
>>
>>bottom line, the dealer is correct.

nick@nowhere.com wrote:
> Ok so what happens if the before and after on the alignment are within
> specs?

absolutely nothing. "within spec" means it's close enough and that it's
uneconomic to try making it "perfect". and your numbers are far from
"perfect". AND you're completely ignoring the other factor i mentioned
before - uneven driveshaft length. this means you don't have exactly
the same torque on each wheel, so one wears faster, the shorter one.

bottom line: if you don't like the cosmetics of very slightly uneven
wear, as is your case, either buy a vehicle with solid axles or rotate
your tires. real simple.




> I replaced the shock on the right side which is giving me the
> problem last year. Would worn out bushings cause this much of a
> problem? The car only has 69k miles.
>
>
>
>
> You may recall I had a never ending problem with my inner walls on my
> 95 Integra. I gave up on it as no one could find out what the problem
> was. The before and after alignments would be in spec. Not to say this
> would be the case but I want to be prepared just in case this occurs
> again.
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:24:50 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> nick@nowhere.com wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
>>> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
>>> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
>>> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
>>> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
>>> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
>>> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>>>
>>> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
>>> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>>>
>>> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
>>> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>>>
>>> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
>>> something else going on here?
>>>
>>> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Nick
>> you're getting uneven tire wear from two things:
>>
>> 1. alignment
>> 2. uneven driveshaft length.
>>
>> bottom line, the dealer is correct.

Jim,

Thanks for your advice. The only out of spec on the front wheel is
the caster which doesn't effect wear. Surly if you looked at the two
pictures you can't tell me that the wear on the right tire is normal?
When I had the alignment done, I had two new tires put on the front of
the car. The car had 56k miles on it at the time. I then rotated the
front tires to the rear at 61k miles at which point the rear tires may
have had 15k miles on them while on the rear of the car. So I've put
about 8k miles on them while in the front and this is what occurred.
Please help me understand how a tire on the front of the car with only
8k miles is normal?

Nick





On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:47:26 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

>nick@nowhere.com wrote:
>> Ok so what happens if the before and after on the alignment are within
>> specs?
>
>absolutely nothing. "within spec" means it's close enough and that it's
>uneconomic to try making it "perfect". and your numbers are far from
>"perfect". AND you're completely ignoring the other factor i mentioned
>before - uneven driveshaft length. this means you don't have exactly
>the same torque on each wheel, so one wears faster, the shorter one.
>
>bottom line: if you don't like the cosmetics of very slightly uneven
>wear, as is your case, either buy a vehicle with solid axles or rotate
>your tires. real simple.
>
>
>
>
>> I replaced the shock on the right side which is giving me the
>> problem last year. Would worn out bushings cause this much of a
>> problem? The car only has 69k miles.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> You may recall I had a never ending problem with my inner walls on my
>> 95 Integra. I gave up on it as no one could find out what the problem
>> was. The before and after alignments would be in spec. Not to say this
>> would be the case but I want to be prepared just in case this occurs
>> again.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:24:50 -0700, jim beam
>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>
>>> nick@nowhere.com wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
>>>> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
>>>> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
>>>> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
>>>> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
>>>> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
>>>> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>>>>
>>>> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
>>>> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
>>>> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>>>>
>>>> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
>>>> something else going on here?
>>>>
>>>> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Nick
>>> you're getting uneven tire wear from two things:
>>>
>>> 1. alignment
>>> 2. uneven driveshaft length.
>>>
>>> bottom line, the dealer is correct.

nick@nowhere.com wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Thanks for your advice. The only out of spec on the front wheel is
> the caster which doesn't effect wear. Surly if you looked at the two
> pictures you can't tell me that the wear on the right tire is normal?
> When I had the alignment done, I had two new tires put on the front of
> the car. The car had 56k miles on it at the time. I then rotated the
> front tires to the rear at 61k miles at which point the rear tires may
> have had 15k miles on them while on the rear of the car. So I've put
> about 8k miles on them while in the front and this is what occurred.
> Please help me understand how a tire on the front of the car with only
> 8k miles is normal?
>
> Nick
>

[usenet etiquette - please don't top post - this thread is really messed
up.]

your biggest problem is the belief that that tire wear is bad!!!!!
compared with most hondas, it's not at all - you should try a camry.

as for explanation, despite being "within spec", the geometry is still
not perfect. add to that little things such as rubber bushings whose
geometry settles differently under load compared to when stationary on
an alignment machine, drift caused by following a road crown that is
cambered, not flat, cornering right faster than left because you don't
have to stop, toe being designed to be different under load because it
makes you corner better, using a 2/3 ackerman steering ratio, and the
other stuff i said before, you will NEVER have perfect tire wear.

you could try messing with front toe to "compensate" for what you see,
but i've found that doing so degrades cornering performance.

again, that tire wear pattern is not excessive or unusual for an
independent suspension fwd.



>
>
>
>
> On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:47:26 -0700, jim beam
> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>> nick@nowhere.com wrote:
>>> Ok so what happens if the before and after on the alignment are within
>>> specs?
>> absolutely nothing. "within spec" means it's close enough and that it's
>> uneconomic to try making it "perfect". and your numbers are far from
>> "perfect". AND you're completely ignoring the other factor i mentioned
>> before - uneven driveshaft length. this means you don't have exactly
>> the same torque on each wheel, so one wears faster, the shorter one.
>>
>> bottom line: if you don't like the cosmetics of very slightly uneven
>> wear, as is your case, either buy a vehicle with solid axles or rotate
>> your tires. real simple.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> I replaced the shock on the right side which is giving me the
>>> problem last year. Would worn out bushings cause this much of a
>>> problem? The car only has 69k miles.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You may recall I had a never ending problem with my inner walls on my
>>> 95 Integra. I gave up on it as no one could find out what the problem
>>> was. The before and after alignments would be in spec. Not to say this
>>> would be the case but I want to be prepared just in case this occurs
>>> again.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:24:50 -0700, jim beam
>>> <spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> nick@nowhere.com wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I've got uneven wear on the inner wall of my front passenger tire. I
>>>>> had the car aligned back in Dec 06 and the only spec that was out the
>>>>> caster 1.5 (spec is 1.8 to 3.8). The dealer mentioned to me that
>>>>> caster doesn't affect the wear of the tires. He also said that the
>>>>> passenger side (front right) wears out faster. This is new news to
>>>>> me, I haven't seen any mention of this before on the boards. I also
>>>>> haven't rotated the tires as I wanted to replace the front ones.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a picture of the passenger (right) front
>>>>> http://img232.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0119qa0.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a picture of the driver's (left) front.
>>>>> http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0120ex3.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>> Do I need to go somewhere else and get another alignment or is there
>>>>> something else going on here?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would appreciate any help you could provide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Nick
>>>> you're getting uneven tire wear from two things:
>>>>
>>>> 1. alignment
>>>> 2. uneven driveshaft length.
>>>>
>>>> bottom line, the dealer is correct.