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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04 Mar 2008, 07:55 am
loewent
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Default 2008 civic tires

Have Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires from the factory on my civic. They are
absolutely HORRIBLE on ice. I live in Manitoba, Canada. They hadn't been
too bad until now because the highways are very icy this time of year (lots
of days when the temp is at or near freezing, lots of wind to polish the
roads).

After reading up on these tires, they are pretty much horrible all around,
unless you drive on perfectly dry pavement all year round. Usually I take
reviews such as this with a grain of salt, as my experience has been very
different from the reviews in the past. However, this time it seems they are
right on the money!

Anyone else concur on this?

Do I have any recourse other than shelling out $800 for new tires and
throwing these brand new tires into the garbage? Thinking about talking to
the dealer.

t
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04 Mar 2008, 09:59 am
motsco_
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

loewent wrote:
> Have Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires from the factory on my civic. They are
> absolutely HORRIBLE on ice. I live in Manitoba, Canada. They hadn't been
> too bad until now because the highways are very icy this time of year (lots
> of days when the temp is at or near freezing, lots of wind to polish the
> roads).
>
> After reading up on these tires, they are pretty much horrible all around,
> unless you drive on perfectly dry pavement all year round. Usually I take
> reviews such as this with a grain of salt, as my experience has been very
> different from the reviews in the past. However, this time it seems they are
> right on the money!
>
> Anyone else concur on this?
>
> Do I have any recourse other than shelling out $800 for new tires and
> throwing these brand new tires into the garbage? Thinking about talking to
> the dealer.


---------------------------

You buy four snow tires and put you All-Seasons in the garage for the
winter. You didn't understand why so many cars in Manitoba are driving
around with ugly steel wheels all winter? Their alloys with All-seasons
are in STROAGE.

All seasons aren't usable in Manitoba in the winter. Why do you think
Quebec just made snow tires mandatory? Go to www.cbc.ca/marketplace and
watch the documentary from three weeks ago.

'Curly'
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05 Mar 2008, 08:20 am
loewent via CarKB.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

Hi Motsco,

Thanks for the reply. I think the problem is a little deeper than you think,
as the reviews indicate that these tires also suck on the wet, (as per user
reviews on tirerack.com) which means they won't be a good summer tire around
here either.

Having lived here in the northern prairies for my entire life and about
500000kms of driving (half in the winter), I would say less than 10-15% of
vehicles here actually use dedicated snow tires. I myself, nor anyone of my
family, and only a few friends have ever needed anything but a good set of
all season radials. Until I drove this car in low traction conditions.

The trend for snow tire usage is different as you venture east. Ontario and
Quebec (Quebec is now mandatory during winter months) get a very different
kind of snow, more like greased owl shit compared to what we get in the
prairies (where it really is a dry cold... ). In Quebec, apparently over
65% of vehicles had dedicated snow tires before the law came into effect.

My wife now will not drive the 08 civic (which does mean I get to drive it, I
guess its not all bad) as she does not feel safe in it, and instead drives my
98 civic with 2 Falken Ziex 512 (all season radials) and some no name all
seasons on the rear. I drove that car to the city last night for a hockey
game, and sure enough, the old civic is sure footed and no problem on the
highway. Comparitively, the 08 civic literally feels like it wants to spin
out any time there is the slightest loss of traction.

Also have a 90 Chev Lumina with a bunch of shit tires I bought from the
wrecker (I sold the car yesterday). While driving to the city (about 20kms)
my wife pulled over the 2008 civic and switched with me as the Lumina didn't
have any issues on the ice. The tires on this car were Cooper Lifeliners,
also all-season radials.

We were thinking of getting some dedicated winter tires for the 08 civic to
improve traction, not because its dangerous to drive without them. And yes,
we expect less traction with all season radials, but this is quite ridiculous!
To top it all off, I must remind everyone that in Canada, tires easily cost
20-40% more than they do in the US, so instead of looking at $400-$600 to
spend on winter tires and rims, I'm looking anywhere from $900-1200. Its a
lot of cash to be spending, right after buying a brand new car.

To top it all off, the Eagle RS-A's have a M+S label on them. What does this
label mean anyways? I thought Mud and Snow? Overall, with some caution I
should be able to use the tires on the car I bought in frickin January to get
me through this winter. It is disappointing that it appears to be a tire
issue, since the driveability issues do not exist on my other cars.

I appreciate the opportunity to bitch along with everyone else about the poor
quality of tires coming from the factory, and I think that includes any make,
not just Honda. As I recall, the factory tires on my 98 civic were not so
great either (Firestone FR680s), but nothing compared to these Goodyears.

Also want to get the word out, so people can change tires if required and
don't end up killing themselves. Or, heaven forbid, get Honda to spend a
couple extra bucks and put decent tires on from the factory.

Terry near Winnipeg

motsco_ wrote:
>> Have Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires from the factory on my civic. They are
>> absolutely HORRIBLE on ice. I live in Manitoba, Canada. They hadn't been

>[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>> throwing these brand new tires into the garbage? Thinking about talking to
>> the dealer.

>
>---------------------------
>
>You buy four snow tires and put you All-Seasons in the garage for the
>winter. You didn't understand why so many cars in Manitoba are driving
>around with ugly steel wheels all winter? Their alloys with All-seasons
>are in STROAGE.
>
>All seasons aren't usable in Manitoba in the winter. Why do you think
>Quebec just made snow tires mandatory? Go to www.cbc.ca/marketplace and
>watch the documentary from three weeks ago.
>
>'Curly'


--
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 06 Mar 2008, 08:02 am
Dano58
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

You realize that Honda sells cars in almost every country on the
planet, right? And during all 4 seasons? Is it their responsibility to
put tires on their car that match the country and season in which it
is being sold? Most manufacturers put tires on that will satisfy most
conditions. It's up to the owner to ensure that their car is prepared
for the various seasons. So, in winter, you put in rubber floor mats.
Check the windshield washer fluid more frequently. Adjust your driving
style to the conditions. Make sure you have appropriate tires. Etc.

Maybe you should have kept the Lumina if it was so great on 'ice'.

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 06 Mar 2008, 09:13 am
loewent via CarKB.com
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

"Is it their responsibility to put tires on their car that match the country
and season in which it is being sold?"

Uhhhh, YEAH! This is pretty ridiculous argument. I happen to work for an
OEM heavy equipment manufacturer, and of course we engineer our product to
ensure it will operate correctly in the market we sell it in.

Its called the NHTSA, and Transport Canada... These organizations are in
place to make sure this happens.

Wow....

t

Dano58 wrote:
>You realize that Honda sells cars in almost every country on the
>planet, right? And during all 4 seasons? Is it their responsibility to
>put tires on their car that match the country and season in which it
>is being sold? Most manufacturers put tires on that will satisfy most
>conditions. It's up to the owner to ensure that their car is prepared
>for the various seasons. So, in winter, you put in rubber floor mats.
>Check the windshield washer fluid more frequently. Adjust your driving
>style to the conditions. Make sure you have appropriate tires. Etc.
>
>Maybe you should have kept the Lumina if it was so great on 'ice'.
>
>Dan D
>'07 Ody EX
>Central NJ USA


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 06 Mar 2008, 10:15 am
motsco_
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

loewent via CarKB.com wrote:
<SNIP>
> I appreciate the opportunity to bitch along with everyone else about the poor
> quality of tires coming from the factory, and I think that includes any make,
> not just Honda. As I recall, the factory tires on my 98 civic were not so
> great either (Firestone FR680s), but nothing compared to these Goodyears.
>
> Also want to get the word out, so people can change tires if required and
> don't end up killing themselves. Or, heaven forbid, get Honda to spend a
> couple extra bucks and put decent tires on from the factory.
>
> Terry near Winnipeg


==============================

Well said. You'll only be safe / happy once you put on real snow tires,
preferably on dedicated rims. Then you can GRIN when other poor slobs
are stuck / spinning out / scared to drive in winter. Hopefully your
winter is close to finished. Edmonton has been nice for a couple days
but I ain't switching my tires back yet.

Anyhow, you've got several months to scare up some cheap rims for NEXT
WINTER.

'Curly'
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 07 Mar 2008, 10:10 am
Dano58
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

On Mar 6, 10:13 am, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote:
> "Is it their responsibility to put tires on their car that match the country
> and season in which it is being sold?"
>
> Uhhhh, YEAH! This is pretty ridiculous argument. I happen to work for an
> OEM heavy equipment manufacturer, and of course we engineer our product to
> ensure it will operate correctly in the market we sell it in.
>
> Its called the NHTSA, and Transport Canada... These organizations are in
> place to make sure this happens.
>
> Wow....
>
> t
>
> Dano58 wrote:
> >You realize that Honda sells cars in almost every country on the
> >planet, right? And during all 4 seasons? Is it their responsibility to
> >put tires on their car that match the country and season in which it
> >is being sold? Most manufacturers put tires on that will satisfy most
> >conditions. It's up to the owner to ensure that their car is prepared
> >for the various seasons. So, in winter, you put in rubber floor mats.
> >Check the windshield washer fluid more frequently. Adjust your driving
> >style to the conditions. Make sure you have appropriate tires. Etc.

>
> >Maybe you should have kept the Lumina if it was so great on 'ice'.

>
> >Dan D
> >'07 Ody EX
> >Central NJ USA



Ok, so you think that Honda needs to plan ahead, with a Civic made in
Japan in, say, August and say - "Ok, this car is being shipped to
Manitoba Canada and will in all liklihood be sold in January, so we
better put snow tires on it. This next one, now, is being shipped to
Florida so we can put all-season tires on it"?? If this is what you
think, then you are being ridiculous. As I noted, they engineer the
cars to work with tires that will satisfy MOST conditions, not
necessarily the extremes. And for sure not by the season in which it
MAY be sold. which was also my point.

Living in Canada, I would have thought you'd know to put snow tires on
your car. I sure did when I lived in New England and Upstate NY. NJ?
Not so much... ;-)

Dan D
'07 Ody EX
Central NJ USA
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 07 Mar 2008, 11:55 pm
Edward W. Thompson
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:10:52 -0800 (PST), Dano58
<dan.dibiase@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 6, 10:13 am, "loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote:
>> "Is it their responsibility to put tires on their car that match the country
>> and season in which it is being sold?"
>>
>> Uhhhh, YEAH! This is pretty ridiculous argument. I happen to work for an
>> OEM heavy equipment manufacturer, and of course we engineer our product to
>> ensure it will operate correctly in the market we sell it in.
>>
>> Its called the NHTSA, and Transport Canada... These organizations are in
>> place to make sure this happens.
>>
>> Wow....
>>
>> t
>>
>> Dano58 wrote:
>> >You realize that Honda sells cars in almost every country on the
>> >planet, right? And during all 4 seasons? Is it their responsibility to
>> >put tires on their car that match the country and season in which it
>> >is being sold? Most manufacturers put tires on that will satisfy most
>> >conditions. It's up to the owner to ensure that their car is prepared
>> >for the various seasons. So, in winter, you put in rubber floor mats.
>> >Check the windshield washer fluid more frequently. Adjust your driving
>> >style to the conditions. Make sure you have appropriate tires. Etc.

>>
>> >Maybe you should have kept the Lumina if it was so great on 'ice'.

>>
>> >Dan D
>> >'07 Ody EX
>> >Central NJ USA

>
>
>Ok, so you think that Honda needs to plan ahead, with a Civic made in
>Japan in, say, August and say - "Ok, this car is being shipped to
>Manitoba Canada and will in all liklihood be sold in January, so we
>better put snow tires on it. This next one, now, is being shipped to
>Florida so we can put all-season tires on it"?? If this is what you
>think, then you are being ridiculous. As I noted, they engineer the
>cars to work with tires that will satisfy MOST conditions, not
>necessarily the extremes. And for sure not by the season in which it
>MAY be sold. which was also my point.
>
>Living in Canada, I would have thought you'd know to put snow tires on
>your car. I sure did when I lived in New England and Upstate NY. NJ?
>Not so much... ;-)
>
>Dan D
>'07 Ody EX
>Central NJ USA


Doesn't the concept of 'suiutable for the purpose for which it is
intended apply?'. Perhaps it is not the manufacturers' specific
responsibility to equip the vehicle with the necessary tires, or
whatever, to make it suitable for environment in which it is sold as
they are not the vendor, but it sure is the dealers' responsibility.

Of course tires are a very grey area. I suppose you could make the
argument that using summer tires in snow and ice is safe, provided you
drive in an ultra cautious manner. One for the lawyers I guess!
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 08 Mar 2008, 08:07 am
Howard Lester
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

"Edward W. Thompson" wrote

> Doesn't the concept of 'suiutable for the purpose for which it is
> intended apply?'. Perhaps it is not the manufacturers' specific
> responsibility to equip the vehicle with the necessary tires, or
> whatever, to make it suitable for environment in which it is sold as
> they are not the vendor, but it sure is the dealers' responsibility.


It *could* be the dealer's responsibility, or at the request of the buyer.
My dad owned a tire store. He worked closely with some nearby car dealers
whose customers requested better tires for their newly purchased car. My dad
took those cars' tires, called "takeoffs," and sold the car dealer the
premium tires. So it is possible, if the dealer will do so, to get the
desired tires on the car at the time of purchase.


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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 08 Mar 2008, 09:02 pm
loewent via CarKB.com
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2008 civic tires

>Maybe you should have kept the Lumina if it was so great on 'ice'.

All I was doing was making a point that old shitty all-season tires seem to
beat the shit out of these new ones. Fortunately, I sold the Lemona. But
the point of bringing that up was that we were driving the civic and the
lumina down the same road at the same time, one car was all over the road,
and one was not. And everybody, winter tires or not, was blowing past the
civic on the highway.

I also pointed out in my post that the tires on my 98 civic are all-seasons,
and also have no issues on the ice.

Some of the comments that rang true for me on these tires on Tirerack.com:

"This is one of the poorest quality Goodyear tires I have owned. It is
terrible on snow/ice and hydroplanes very easily. The wear factor is
terrible and the amount of vibration thru the steering wheel is not good at
all. Our police force have used this tire and so I thought it would be good
but it is definately not. I would not buy this tire again."

"These tires are TERRIBLE! High performance tires on a vehicle that is
designed for "fuel efficiency"?? Terrible on wet roads"hydroplanning". Scary
in/on snow. Don not feel safe on these tires at all. After just 30,000 miles
and over a year of owning this vehicle, there is 3 of 32 seconds of an inch
left. Told my tires are unsafe to drive on.Rotated tires at every 5,000kms.
Vibration is so noisy and feels uncomfortable to ride.

Will I ever buy these tires again?? Never and will buy something next time
that guarantees its road conditions."

Granted, there were also positive reviews.

The RS-A's carry a rating of All Season. They also state 'M+S' on the
sidewall. They are Traction A Temperature A tires. And they are terrible on
anything slippery. Ice, water, (we've had both recently) you name it. They
suck!

What does 'M+S' mean anyways?

So I called the dealer.

Me - "These tires are really bad on ice!"
Dealer - "Yup."
Me - "Have you had complaints from other customers?"
Dealer - "Yup."
Me - "Can you do anything to help me out?"
Dealer - "Nope."
Me - "Not even a decent deal on winter tires and rims?"
Dealer "Would love to help you, but we've been out of winter tires since
January."

Pretty much the same story at any tire shop I have asked in Winnipeg as well.
Couldn't get winter tires even if I wanted to.

Even so, the point of me posting here in the first place is that the
changeover from All-Seasons to Winter tires should bring the driving
experience from moderately safe to very safe, not 'I think I'm going to spin
into the ditch every time I hit a small patch of slippery stuff on the
highway'.

I stand by my comments. Perhaps if I lived in NE US I would have a different
opinion.
t

Dano58 wrote:
>> "Is it their responsibility to put tires on their car that match the country
>> and season in which it is being sold?"

>[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>> >'07 Ody EX
>> >Central NJ USA

>
>Ok, so you think that Honda needs to plan ahead, with a Civic made in
>Japan in, say, August and say - "Ok, this car is being shipped to
>Manitoba Canada and will in all liklihood be sold in January, so we
>better put snow tires on it. This next one, now, is being shipped to
>Florida so we can put all-season tires on it"?? If this is what you
>think, then you are being ridiculous. As I noted, they engineer the
>cars to work with tires that will satisfy MOST conditions, not
>necessarily the extremes. And for sure not by the season in which it
>MAY be sold. which was also my point.
>
>Living in Canada, I would have thought you'd know to put snow tires on
>your car. I sure did when I lived in New England and Upstate NY. NJ?
>Not so much... ;-)
>
>Dan D
>'07 Ody EX
>Central NJ USA


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