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Old 27 Jun 2003, 12:13 am
John D.
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious Honda service error - what would you do????

That's really unfortunate...speaks poorly of Honda. You COULD write
Honda Japan and quote the response you got from Honda Canada.

Nissan USA is the same way -- not much help for Nissan customers, even
ignoring them -- and Nissan Japan needs to know about as it is
trashing the Nissan name...Nissan Japan might want to correct that.

John D.



John Cosway <thecos@the-wire.com> wrote in message news:<5sv8fv4r2gg5sm5uomdnhol9v68q8cgriv@4ax.com>. ..
> Brief update:
>
> The new gas gauge part got rid of the sticking problem. What I
> have noticed is when the old engine was turned off, the
> gas gauge always fell to empty. Now it stays at the amount
> that is in the tank. The service manager says gas gauges in
> all 1998 and 1999 4-cylinder Accords do not fall to empty
> when the engine is off and that is what it says in the manual.
>
> Gas-wise, we're back to a working gas gauge but it is puzzling
> why it worked differently with the old engine.
>
> I asked the service manager for specs on the engine assembly
> installed but he couldn't provide anything other than the 2.3 size
> of the engine. It looks like I will have to take it to an independent
> mechanic and ask if the motor installed is a duplicate of the one that
> came with the car.
>
> I have taken the advice of group posters and faxed off a
> letetr to Honda Canada. I called them the other day and they
> said all of the dealerships are independent and Honda Canada
> can not dictate what Cobourg Honda or any other outlet
> should do in handling costumer service complaints.
>
> Thanks again to all posters for their feedback.
>
> John
>
>
>
>
> On 19 Jun 2003 09:56:26 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
>
> >It sounds like a case of persistent incompetence at that dealer. And
> >yet they probably have lots of ASE certified signs on the walls, don't
> >they. So much for ASE.
> >
> >I have said for many years now that I've seen more good cars ruined by
> >sorry "mechanics" that by any fault of the car itself. I have wondered
> >how many "lemon" cars really ARE lemons! Cars that appear to be lemons
> >-- x-number of times in the shop during a certain time period -- are
> >actually victims of "mechanics" who didn't do the job right the 1st
> >time, 2nd time, and so on. Or they even damaged/broke something and
> >just let it go. It's just plain incredible.
> >
> >I guess America long ago lost the once superior work-ethic that didn't
> >allow someone to do a sorry job -- because he had pride in his work --
> >nowadays, doing something half-assed is what's common. One reason why
> >DIY people -- whether they're workign on their car or house -- often
> >do superior work. They may be slow, but they do better work. Except
> >for the truly incompetent DIY people of course. Like the incompetent
> >mechanics.
> >
> >A mechanic (I guess) in these newsgroups took me to task for that as
> >he said he's seen more cars ruined by sorry owners who don't care for
> >it properly, or even abuse their vehicles -- there certainly ARE those
> >kind of people I will agree -- but because I do 90% of my own work on
> >all the cars I've had, I am looking at things from my perspective, and
> >in 33 years, I've seen WAY TOO MANY supposed "professionals" screw up
> >good cars. It reminds me of the medical field where something like
> >125,000 people a year die from medical mistakes despite highly-trained
> >doctors and nurses.
> >
> >No, don't tell me "it's human to err"...at that level of education,
> >training and at those prices -- what we pay doctors, nurses AND auto
> >technicians (mechanics) -- we deserve much better. And if a mistake IS
> >made, admitting it and taking responsibility for it at the very least.
> >I know I sure don't make as many mistakes working on my own cars -- or
> >friends' cars -- but I'm not a trained mechanic nor ASE certified. Go
> >figure.
> >
> >Even if I do make a mistake -- which happens -- I don't let it go or
> >leave it to the customer to fix or to find out many months later when
> >something happens because of it, or they notice it when they are under
> >there working on something else. But really, those people who NEVER
> >work on their own cars, they'll never see all those rounded-off
> >nuts/boltheads, loose wires/hoses, connectors or missing parts the
> >last mechanic (or the one before him) left, will they.
> >
> >My point is though, I think YOUR car should be fine IF you can get it
> >away from those monkeys working on it! If there is another dealer in
> >town -- or the next town -- try them instead!
> >
> >Also, think about writing Honda USA saying that you're not comfortable
> >with the Keystone Kops working on your car at that particular
> >dealer...maybe something can be done about upping the level of
> >competence big time at that dealership. Besides, didn't the fools
> >already cost Honda a new engine! So Honda seems ot have a vested
> >interest in stopping that crap, too....it'll save Honda money paying
> >out for stupid mistakes.
> >
> >Yes, the guys did try to find you when they noticed the oil trail (!)
> >but now your report some more nonsense...I must admit, like you, I'd
> >be a bit worried re: the future of your "new" car (engine) at that
> >place, so your "bad omen" comment is understandable.
> >
> >One reason I hate to take my car in to a shop: Will they do a good job
> >-- like I do -- or screw it up just to get it in and out as quickly as
> >possible?
> >
> >When I DO take it to the shop (sorry, but I'm not going to take out my
> >cordless drill and rebore my cylinders myself, thank you), I try to
> >see EVERYTHING they do to it...if I see something I don't like, I'm
> >right there to deal with them on it. But still, when I go to the shop,
> >I'm at the same disadvantage everyone else is as my good car is in
> >their hands...I DO worry that they may mess something up. Sorry, but
> >I've seen it too often in the last 33 years.
> >
> >Good luck to you...let us know how things go.
> >
> >John D.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >John Cosway <thecos@the-wire.com> wrote in message news:<rad2fv84n2mt821853e0cb4nnmfpg7rs6k@4ax.com>. ..
> >> Honda: Chapter 2
> >>
> >> After picking up the car, new motor and all, last Saturday,
> >> I did some driving that day and went for another drive on
> >> Sunday. I remember thinking the gas mileage with the new
> >> motor was much better before realizing the gauge was stuck.
> >>
> >> When I returned the car on the Monday, the service manager
> >> said to leave the car and the problem would be checked. He gave me a
> >> loaner. The next day, he said parts would have to be ordered and while
> >> the problem was not related to the new engine, they would replace the
> >> parts without charge.
> >>
> >> On Thursday, I returned to the dealership and saw my car parked
> >> out front and the service desk worker said it was ready to go. This
> >> time I did a check and discovered the gas gauge was still stuck. As
> >> before, it was not moving when the motor was turned on and off.
> >>
> >> I drove off again - in the loaner.
> >>
> >> So I have been in a loaner most of the week and I am wondering
> >> if the gas gauge problem is an omen of things to come with
> >> this new motor.
> >>
> >> I was philosophical about the initial oil filter screwup at the
> >> beginning because things happen. But now, with the gas
> >> gauge problem and the lack of interest in my wanting another
> >> Honda Accord Ex of comparable value, I am losing confidence
> >> in a car manufacturer that I have admired - and vigorously
> >> promoted - for more than 20 years.
> >>
> >> I know it is only one dealership, but Honda collectively
> >> advertises 100% satisfaction. It hasn't scored 100% with this
> >> Honda owner in the past two weeks.
> >>
> >> John
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:36:04 GMT, "Kevin Lacey" <klacey_88@in.com.au>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Dude,
> >> >
> >> >I'd DEMANd a new car (if it is still within the warranty period) if not sue
> >> >there arses like I did and reap the rewards.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >"John Cosway" <thecos@the-wire.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:39unev4emtsvslj86e7nenfrjhgrddb2r0@4ax.com.. .
> >> >> What would you, as a Honda owner, do if
> >> >> you took your car into a dealership for an
> >> >> oil change and an error on their part led
> >> >> to the motor seizing on a highway? Would you
> >> >> be happy with the free tow back to the
> >> >> dealership and a new motor and new motor
> >> >> warranty, or would you want another car
> >> >> of equal value to start anew? Would be
> >> >> interested in feedback or similar experiences.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 29 Jun 2003, 01:09 am
John Cosway
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Serious Honda service error - what would you do????

Honda Update

Had a sitdown with the owner of the dealership this past week
and he assured me he would do what he could to find another
Honda Accord EX 5-speed to my liking. I don't know if it was
the fax to Honda Canada and the media, but he sounded sincere
and he was confident that it could be worked out. That is my goal - to
be back in an Accord EX with all of its original parts and feeling
good about my Honda. Again, many thanks to all of the alt.autos.honda
browsers who have provided feedback.

John



On 26 Jun 2003 22:13:22 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:

>That's really unfortunate...speaks poorly of Honda. You COULD write
>Honda Japan and quote the response you got from Honda Canada.
>
>Nissan USA is the same way -- not much help for Nissan customers, even
>ignoring them -- and Nissan Japan needs to know about as it is
>trashing the Nissan name...Nissan Japan might want to correct that.
>
>John D.
>
>
>
>John Cosway <thecos@the-wire.com> wrote in message news:<5sv8fv4r2gg5sm5uomdnhol9v68q8cgriv@4ax.com>. ..
>> Brief update:
>>
>> The new gas gauge part got rid of the sticking problem. What I
>> have noticed is when the old engine was turned off, the
>> gas gauge always fell to empty. Now it stays at the amount
>> that is in the tank. The service manager says gas gauges in
>> all 1998 and 1999 4-cylinder Accords do not fall to empty
>> when the engine is off and that is what it says in the manual.
>>
>> Gas-wise, we're back to a working gas gauge but it is puzzling
>> why it worked differently with the old engine.
>>
>> I asked the service manager for specs on the engine assembly
>> installed but he couldn't provide anything other than the 2.3 size
>> of the engine. It looks like I will have to take it to an independent
>> mechanic and ask if the motor installed is a duplicate of the one that
>> came with the car.
>>
>> I have taken the advice of group posters and faxed off a
>> letetr to Honda Canada. I called them the other day and they
>> said all of the dealerships are independent and Honda Canada
>> can not dictate what Cobourg Honda or any other outlet
>> should do in handling costumer service complaints.
>>
>> Thanks again to all posters for their feedback.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19 Jun 2003 09:56:26 -0700, jcdech@hotmail.com (John D.) wrote:
>>
>> >It sounds like a case of persistent incompetence at that dealer. And
>> >yet they probably have lots of ASE certified signs on the walls, don't
>> >they. So much for ASE.
>> >
>> >I have said for many years now that I've seen more good cars ruined by
>> >sorry "mechanics" that by any fault of the car itself. I have wondered
>> >how many "lemon" cars really ARE lemons! Cars that appear to be lemons
>> >-- x-number of times in the shop during a certain time period -- are
>> >actually victims of "mechanics" who didn't do the job right the 1st
>> >time, 2nd time, and so on. Or they even damaged/broke something and
>> >just let it go. It's just plain incredible.
>> >
>> >I guess America long ago lost the once superior work-ethic that didn't
>> >allow someone to do a sorry job -- because he had pride in his work --
>> >nowadays, doing something half-assed is what's common. One reason why
>> >DIY people -- whether they're workign on their car or house -- often
>> >do superior work. They may be slow, but they do better work. Except
>> >for the truly incompetent DIY people of course. Like the incompetent
>> >mechanics.
>> >
>> >A mechanic (I guess) in these newsgroups took me to task for that as
>> >he said he's seen more cars ruined by sorry owners who don't care for
>> >it properly, or even abuse their vehicles -- there certainly ARE those
>> >kind of people I will agree -- but because I do 90% of my own work on
>> >all the cars I've had, I am looking at things from my perspective, and
>> >in 33 years, I've seen WAY TOO MANY supposed "professionals" screw up
>> >good cars. It reminds me of the medical field where something like
>> >125,000 people a year die from medical mistakes despite highly-trained
>> >doctors and nurses.
>> >
>> >No, don't tell me "it's human to err"...at that level of education,
>> >training and at those prices -- what we pay doctors, nurses AND auto
>> >technicians (mechanics) -- we deserve much better. And if a mistake IS
>> >made, admitting it and taking responsibility for it at the very least.
>> >I know I sure don't make as many mistakes working on my own cars -- or
>> >friends' cars -- but I'm not a trained mechanic nor ASE certified. Go
>> >figure.
>> >
>> >Even if I do make a mistake -- which happens -- I don't let it go or
>> >leave it to the customer to fix or to find out many months later when
>> >something happens because of it, or they notice it when they are under
>> >there working on something else. But really, those people who NEVER
>> >work on their own cars, they'll never see all those rounded-off
>> >nuts/boltheads, loose wires/hoses, connectors or missing parts the
>> >last mechanic (or the one before him) left, will they.
>> >
>> >My point is though, I think YOUR car should be fine IF you can get it
>> >away from those monkeys working on it! If there is another dealer in
>> >town -- or the next town -- try them instead!
>> >
>> >Also, think about writing Honda USA saying that you're not comfortable
>> >with the Keystone Kops working on your car at that particular
>> >dealer...maybe something can be done about upping the level of
>> >competence big time at that dealership. Besides, didn't the fools
>> >already cost Honda a new engine! So Honda seems ot have a vested
>> >interest in stopping that crap, too....it'll save Honda money paying
>> >out for stupid mistakes.
>> >
>> >Yes, the guys did try to find you when they noticed the oil trail (!)
>> >but now your report some more nonsense...I must admit, like you, I'd
>> >be a bit worried re: the future of your "new" car (engine) at that
>> >place, so your "bad omen" comment is understandable.
>> >
>> >One reason I hate to take my car in to a shop: Will they do a good job
>> >-- like I do -- or screw it up just to get it in and out as quickly as
>> >possible?
>> >
>> >When I DO take it to the shop (sorry, but I'm not going to take out my
>> >cordless drill and rebore my cylinders myself, thank you), I try to
>> >see EVERYTHING they do to it...if I see something I don't like, I'm
>> >right there to deal with them on it. But still, when I go to the shop,
>> >I'm at the same disadvantage everyone else is as my good car is in
>> >their hands...I DO worry that they may mess something up. Sorry, but
>> >I've seen it too often in the last 33 years.
>> >
>> >Good luck to you...let us know how things go.
>> >
>> >John D.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >John Cosway <thecos@the-wire.com> wrote in message news:<rad2fv84n2mt821853e0cb4nnmfpg7rs6k@4ax.com>. ..
>> >> Honda: Chapter 2
>> >>
>> >> After picking up the car, new motor and all, last Saturday,
>> >> I did some driving that day and went for another drive on
>> >> Sunday. I remember thinking the gas mileage with the new
>> >> motor was much better before realizing the gauge was stuck.
>> >>
>> >> When I returned the car on the Monday, the service manager
>> >> said to leave the car and the problem would be checked. He gave me a
>> >> loaner. The next day, he said parts would have to be ordered and while
>> >> the problem was not related to the new engine, they would replace the
>> >> parts without charge.
>> >>
>> >> On Thursday, I returned to the dealership and saw my car parked
>> >> out front and the service desk worker said it was ready to go. This
>> >> time I did a check and discovered the gas gauge was still stuck. As
>> >> before, it was not moving when the motor was turned on and off.
>> >>
>> >> I drove off again - in the loaner.
>> >>
>> >> So I have been in a loaner most of the week and I am wondering
>> >> if the gas gauge problem is an omen of things to come with
>> >> this new motor.
>> >>
>> >> I was philosophical about the initial oil filter screwup at the
>> >> beginning because things happen. But now, with the gas
>> >> gauge problem and the lack of interest in my wanting another
>> >> Honda Accord Ex of comparable value, I am losing confidence
>> >> in a car manufacturer that I have admired - and vigorously
>> >> promoted - for more than 20 years.
>> >>
>> >> I know it is only one dealership, but Honda collectively
>> >> advertises 100% satisfaction. It hasn't scored 100% with this
>> >> Honda owner in the past two weeks.
>> >>
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 17 Jun 2003 14:36:04 GMT, "Kevin Lacey" <klacey_88@in.com.au>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Dude,
>> >> >
>> >> >I'd DEMANd a new car (if it is still within the warranty period) if not sue
>> >> >there arses like I did and reap the rewards.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >"John Cosway" <thecos@the-wire.com> wrote in message
>> >> >news:39unev4emtsvslj86e7nenfrjhgrddb2r0@4ax.com.. .
>> >> >> What would you, as a Honda owner, do if
>> >> >> you took your car into a dealership for an
>> >> >> oil change and an error on their part led
>> >> >> to the motor seizing on a highway? Would you
>> >> >> be happy with the free tow back to the
>> >> >> dealership and a new motor and new motor
>> >> >> warranty, or would you want another car
>> >> >> of equal value to start anew? Would be
>> >> >> interested in feedback or similar experiences.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >


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