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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 12:39 pm
KR
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Default CV joint boot grease leakage

96 EX Accord w 150k miles. On right inner & outer & left inner cv
joints there is a grease leak from the ends of the boots. Boots are
good & the boot clamps look ok. Why/how is grease getting out? No
typical bad cv joint symptoms yet. Garage recommended new half axles
- apparently nobody changes just boots anymore because of the labor
costs. Before I go that route I'll get a lot more miles out of these
- at least until they start clicking. I've not heard of grease
leaking from good joints/boots. It's the vertical sling out pattern
on the facing & backing surfaces & right where the boot/clamp there is
seepage. Any ideas?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 01:17 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

KR <ker1ker@gmail.com> wrote in news:53378197-c16d-4d93-bbbf-090f30408ec2
@r60g2000hsc.googlegroups.com:

> 96 EX Accord w 150k miles. On right inner & outer & left inner cv
> joints there is a grease leak from the ends of the boots. Boots are
> good & the boot clamps look ok. Why/how is grease getting out? No
> typical bad cv joint symptoms yet. Garage recommended new half axles
> - apparently nobody changes just boots anymore because of the labor
> costs. Before I go that route I'll get a lot more miles out of these
> - at least until they start clicking. I've not heard of grease
> leaking from good joints/boots. It's the vertical sling out pattern
> on the facing & backing surfaces & right where the boot/clamp there is
> seepage. Any ideas?
>




Aftermarket shafts with insufficiently tightened boot bands. The shop can
replace the bands without removing the shafts from the vehicle. Should be a
quick and cheap fix.

The shafts may go a long time yet even with a lesser amount of grease in
the joints, so it's definitely worth a try before replacing the shafts.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 01:30 pm
Elle
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Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

If grease is leaking from the boots, failure is likely not
far away. You don't want them failing when you are driving
down the highway. How long they'll last is hard to say, but
point is, you want some peace of mind.

Your garage is right about just replacing the half-shafts.
Reason: "Simply" re-packing is expensive, because the tech
first has to take off the half shaft, then remove the boot,
then thoroughly clean (and CV joint grease is about the
thickest grease-based lubricant you'll see on a car), then
re-pack. Major time in labor. Also, rebuilt half-axles have
become plentiful, forcing down their price. IIRC boot
quality has improved since 1996, so this may be the last
half shaft replacement the car needs.

To see how competitive your shop is, check prices for half
shafts for your Accord at Majestic Honda (probably around
$150 per half-shaft), Napa Auto Parts and Autozone (closer
to $75 per half-shaft). Insist on OEM from your garage,
though that may be automatic, since one half shaft from one
model of Honda does not exchange generally with that of
another model. Compare prices.

Figure labor of a couple hours? That's a rough ballpark.
Lots here have done the job, so check back for how long they
think this should take.

I disassembled a CV joint a year or so ago in an automotive
course, then reported on current practices and the thinking
behind them for repairing CV joints.

Elle
Original owner, 1991 Civic


"KR" <ker1ker@gmail.com> wrote
> 96 EX Accord w 150k miles. On right inner & outer & left
> inner cv
> joints there is a grease leak from the ends of the boots.
> Boots are
> good & the boot clamps look ok. Why/how is grease getting
> out? No
> typical bad cv joint symptoms yet. Garage recommended new
> half axles
> - apparently nobody changes just boots anymore because of
> the labor
> costs. Before I go that route I'll get a lot more miles
> out of these
> - at least until they start clicking. I've not heard of
> grease
> leaking from good joints/boots. It's the vertical sling
> out pattern
> on the facing & backing surfaces & right where the
> boot/clamp there is
> seepage. Any ideas?



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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 01:40 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in news:13mlglrst7vac79
@corp.supernews.com:

> If grease is leaking from the boots, failure is likely not
> far away. You don't want them failing when you are driving
> down the highway. How long they'll last is hard to say, but
> point is, you want some peace of mind.




OP should ascertain if the boots are split or not.

When I read his message I gathered it was leaking from the boot/band join,
which is different from leaking due to a split in the boot.

So, to elaborate: If the boots are split, replace the shafts. If the boots
are leaking because the bands are insufficiently tight, replace the bands
only.

And to the OP: CV joint boots split with regularity if not examined once in
a while.

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 02:01 pm
Elle
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Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> If grease is leaking from the boots, failure is likely
>> not
>> far away. You don't want them failing when you are
>> driving
>> down the highway. How long they'll last is hard to say,
>> but
>> point is, you want some peace of mind.

>
>
>
> OP should ascertain if the boots are split or not.
>
> When I read his message I gathered it was leaking from the
> boot/band join,
> which is different from leaking due to a split in the
> boot.


I think we should see what KR says about the halfshafts'
history.

KR, did you buy this car new or used? If new, has any work
been done on the halfshafts before the boots started
leaking? If used, have you any of the cars' maintenance and
repair history?

If I were the tech working on this car, then I would
hesitate to just tighten up the boot bands. It's said that
ingress of dirt of any kind into the CV joint grease leads
to failure. Maybe if I'd seen more reports of just
tightening working fine, I'd go with this fix. But it sure
does not come up here much, if at all.

OTOH, since clicking (outer joints) and clunking (inner
joints) normally present before full failure, your approach
might be worth a try. Whether a shop will agree to do only
this is another matter. I guess they might.

> So, to elaborate: If the boots are split, replace the
> shafts.


Aside: I was reading at your site a little while ago on
this, to see if we were of the same thinking. Have you
changed your position about changing only the boots when the
boot splits but the joint seems fine?

Not that I am presenting myself as experienced as you. Just
an observation.


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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 05:46 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:13mlihj5i1gpm2c@corp.supernews.com:


>
> If I were the tech working on this car, then I would
> hesitate to just tighten up the boot bands.




It sometimes happens (only on aftermarket) that the bands are
insufficiently tightened. When that occurs it's not like the boots are
loose the way your sleeve is on your arm, but that they're loose just
enough to be unable to keep violently flung grease from being flung out the
tiny gap. The gap is far too tiny to allow dirt or water to enter, but is
just enough to allow grease to leave.

In such a case it is standard operating procedure to simply replace the
bands and make sure the new ones are sufficiently tight.

However, as I said, my advice was based on a possibly faulty reading of the
OP's description of the problem. If, and only if, there are no visible
splits in the boot, should the bands be replaced. A professional tech
should be able to tell the difference between a split boot and loose bands.


>
> Aside: I was reading at your site a little while ago on
> this, to see if we were of the same thinking. Have you
> changed your position about changing only the boots when the
> boot splits but the joint seems fine?




Where do I say that? If that appears anywhere I'd better get rid of it.

My opinion has always been that if the boots have been split for an unknown
length of time under unknown conditions that the joint should be replaced.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 06:27 pm
Elle
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage


"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns9A0CBEF397FA2tegger@207.14.116.130...
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
> news:13mlihj5i1gpm2c@corp.supernews.com:
>
>
>>
>> If I were the tech working on this car, then I would
>> hesitate to just tighten up the boot bands.

>
>
>
> It sometimes happens (only on aftermarket) that the bands
> are
> insufficiently tightened. When that occurs it's not like
> the boots are
> loose the way your sleeve is on your arm, but that they're
> loose just
> enough to be unable to keep violently flung grease from
> being flung out the
> tiny gap. The gap is far too tiny to allow dirt or water
> to enter, but is
> just enough to allow grease to leave.


I hear you. I also found a few reports (though lacking
updates) of same in the Honda newsgroups. Indeed, especially
with aftermarket shafts, and with three of four leaking, it
seems like a good first guess.

I have yet to hear of a catastrophic CV joint failure on the
Honda newsgroups, besides. Clicking and clunking, but not a
dangerous failure while driving. Though I am sure it could
happen.

> In such a case it is standard operating procedure to
> simply replace the
> bands and make sure the new ones are sufficiently tight.
>
> However, as I said, my advice was based on a possibly
> faulty reading of the
> OP's description of the problem. If, and only if, there
> are no visible
> splits in the boot, should the bands be replaced. A
> professional tech
> should be able to tell the difference between a split boot
> and loose bands.
>
>
>>
>> Aside: I was reading at your site a little while ago on
>> this, to see if we were of the same thinking. Have you
>> changed your position about changing only the boots when
>> the
>> boot splits but the joint seems fine?

>
>
>
> Where do I say that? If that appears anywhere I'd better
> get rid of it.
>
> My opinion has always been that if the boots have been
> split for an unknown
> length of time under unknown conditions that the joint
> should be replaced.


http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rusty...rakes4.html#cv
seems to imply that one should just replace the boots if one
finds them split. It's a little vague. I think I'd be more
emphatic that the choice these days is to replace the
halfshaft.


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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 06:56 pm
Tegger
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

"Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote in
news:13mm22rq4r2c637@corp.supernews.com:

>
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns9A0CBEF397FA2tegger@207.14.116.130...


>>
>>
>>>
>>> Aside: I was reading at your site a little while ago on
>>> this, to see if we were of the same thinking. Have you
>>> changed your position about changing only the boots when
>>> the
>>> boot splits but the joint seems fine?

>>
>>
>>
>> Where do I say that? If that appears anywhere I'd better
>> get rid of it.
>>
>> My opinion has always been that if the boots have been
>> split for an unknown
>> length of time under unknown conditions that the joint
>> should be replaced.

>
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rusty...rakes4.html#cv
> seems to imply that one should just replace the boots if one
> finds them split. It's a little vague. I think I'd be more
> emphatic that the choice these days is to replace the
> halfshaft.
>
>



This is that text, in part:

"Did you know that your superbly-made and top-quality original Honda
outer CV joints are very expensive new?

Did you also know that if you never allow the boot to split, those CV
joints will easily last the life of the car? Did you also know that it
takes about two years from the start of a crack in the boots to the
point when the crack turns into a gaping slot that lets water and dirt
in?...

If the crack is more than 1/16" deep, get the boots replaced now! It
might cost you $200, but at least you're keeping your precious factory
CV joints..."


Maybe I ought to be explicit about the opposite situation, that if the
boots ARE split it is advisable that the joint/shaft should be replaced?

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 08:39 pm
Dan C
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:40:25 +0000, Tegger wrote:

> And to the OP: CV joint boots split with regularity if not examined once in
> a while.


So, you're saying that examining the boots will keep them from splitting,
huh?

Ummmm........

--
"Ubuntu" -- an African word, meaning "Slackware is too hard for me".

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 20 Dec 2007, 08:47 pm
Elle
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: CV joint boot grease leakage

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
> "Elle" <honda.lioness@nospam.earthlink.net> wrote
>> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote
>>>> Aside: I was reading at your site a little while ago on
>>>> this, to see if we were of the same thinking. Have you
>>>> changed your position about changing only the boots
>>>> when
>>>> the
>>>> boot splits but the joint seems fine?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Where do I say that? If that appears anywhere I'd better
>>> get rid of it.
>>>
>>> My opinion has always been that if the boots have been
>>> split for an unknown
>>> length of time under unknown conditions that the joint
>>> should be replaced.

>>
>> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/rusty...rakes4.html#cv
>> seems to imply that one should just replace the boots if
>> one
>> finds them split. It's a little vague. I think I'd be
>> more
>> emphatic that the choice these days is to replace the
>> halfshaft.
>>
>>

>
>
> This is that text, in part:
>
> "Did you know that your superbly-made and top-quality
> original Honda
> outer CV joints are very expensive new?
>
> Did you also know that if you never allow the boot to
> split, those CV
> joints will easily last the life of the car? Did you also
> know that it
> takes about two years from the start of a crack in the
> boots to the
> point when the crack turns into a gaping slot that lets
> water and dirt
> in?...
>
> If the crack is more than 1/16" deep, get the boots
> replaced now! It
> might cost you $200, but at least you're keeping your
> precious factory
> CV joints..."
>
>
> Maybe I ought to be explicit about the opposite situation,
> that if the
> boots ARE split it is advisable that the joint/shaft
> should be replaced?


I understand your point about trying to preserve the
original came-with-the-car joints. But that boot replacement
and joint cleaning labor is going to cost a person. Wouldn't
it be cheaper and just as reliable to buy the remanned OEM
ones that Majestic Honda offers and replace the whole
half-shaft? About a year-and-a-half ago, Majestic wanted
$130 for a remanned half shaft for my 91 Civic.

I am okay with tightening the bands (well, from my amateur
reading and limited hands on) if a close inspection
indicates the bands appear a bit loose and are likely
leaking. But if the boots are badly cracked, I think
remanned OEM from Majestic or another genuine Honda parts
dealer is likely the best alternative, dollar-wise,
time-wise, reliability-wise.

Two cents in this fine holiday season. :-)


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