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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09 Dec 2007, 02:40 pm
mopa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

Hello everyone,

I drive a 1993 Honda Civic LX (stick)

The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
replaced the clutch (flywheel) and a new Clutch Slave Cylinder, about
10,000 miles ago the Clutch Master Cylinder was replaced too.

There was a issue, the O'ring on the distributor cap was broken,
caused oil to leak into the transmission and got onto the clutch, and
when the clutch got very warm.. would slip.. and after 2 weeks of
driving it.. the clutch burnt out.

My buddy installed another clutch, this is now the 3rd one and the
o'ring was replaced, and he cleaned up all the oil, but now I am
having similar issues when the car gets warm.

I live in Atlanta, and it has been in the mid 40's/50's in the
morning. The car is cold, so when I start up the car works fine, the
clutch shifts fine, and the car accelerates pretty well, about 3K RPM
going at about 55 mph/ 60 mph... but as the engine gets warmer... it
starts to have issues... like yesterday... I left home at 3pm and it
was 75 degrees outside... I get on the expressway... everything is
fine.... once I am driving.. about 15 miles later.. the car does not
want to accelerate.... I push on the gas.... and in 4th gear trying to
hit 70 mph... the RPM hits 5.5 RPM..... which is worrying me... the
gas is struggling... and the car just does not want to accelerate
whatsoever.... as I am coasting on the expressway, the car goes 80
mph.... and the car is close to red lining it....

So I finally get off my exit which is 45 minutes from my house... and
as I get off the express to the light.. I go into 1st gear.. it
pulls.. then the light is green.. and I go into second... and the car
does not move.. except from the force of going down hill a bit.. I do
my u-turn like I always do.. and I go into 1st gear... move a bit with
the force of gravity and able to roll down the hill to my job and
park...

I get off work at 3am... and its freezing outside... I get in the car
and drive home like nothing happened... As long as it is very cold
outside.. everything works. What could be causing the car not to want
to accelerate? and not move? This is so very scary, and I am worried
for my safety now, because once It gets hot again... I just won't be
able to drive like this.

For whoever might know what the issue is, thank you sooo very much. I
greatly appreciate you all for taking the time to read my post, and
for your replies. THANK YOU!

Janos
buttakid@gmail.com
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09 Dec 2007, 03:48 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

mopa wrote:
> Hello everyone,
>
> I drive a 1993 Honda Civic LX (stick)
>
> The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
> 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
> replaced the clutch (flywheel)


did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.


> and a new Clutch Slave Cylinder, about
> 10,000 miles ago the Clutch Master Cylinder was replaced too.
>
> There was a issue, the O'ring on the distributor cap was broken,
> caused oil to leak into the transmission and got onto the clutch, and
> when the clutch got very warm.. would slip.. and after 2 weeks of
> driving it.. the clutch burnt out.
>
> My buddy installed another clutch, this is now the 3rd one and the
> o'ring was replaced, and he cleaned up all the oil, but now I am
> having similar issues when the car gets warm.


<snip>

see above. yes, oil from the o-ring can cause the clutch to slip, but
i've seen civics where the oil is pissing out from that seal but the
clutch holds fine.

bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 09 Dec 2007, 07:17 pm
mopa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips


> > The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
> > 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
> > replaced the clutch (flywheel)

>
> did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
> the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
> clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.


> bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
> skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
> sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.


----

Hey, Thanks for your reply Jim.

Yeah, my friend replaced the entire thing; clutch, flywheel and all at
his shop, but right now he has no clue what it could be, because
everytime he checks it out, everything works out, because it is always
early morning. The car only has issues accelerating when the engine
gets warm, or it is hot outside. We just replaced the Slave Cylinder
thinking that it was keeping it from taking off the clutch off the
flywheel... but it wasn't that... something is keeping the car from
accelerating.. you can just hit the gas.... and the RPM's will go
way... way up into red line (if I let it, but I won't)... and if the
car is parked... set for hours... and then tried again... it works
fine. This is such a weird problem, but dangerous one.

Thanks again
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2007, 12:20 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

mopa wrote:
>>> The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
>>> 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
>>> replaced the clutch (flywheel)

>> did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
>> the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
>> clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.

>
>> bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
>> skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
>> sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.

>
> ----
>
> Hey, Thanks for your reply Jim.
>
> Yeah, my friend replaced the entire thing; clutch, flywheel and all at
> his shop, but right now he has no clue what it could be, because
> everytime he checks it out, everything works out, because it is always
> early morning.


well, if he doesn't know what he's doing wrong, and clearly there's
something up, how is he going to know enough to discover the problem?


> The car only has issues accelerating when the engine
> gets warm, or it is hot outside.


friction plates hold less when they're hot - in brakes, that's known as
"fade".


> We just replaced the Slave Cylinder
> thinking that it was keeping it from taking off the clutch off the
> flywheel... but it wasn't that...


hydraulic clutches are self-adjusting. generally, they either work or
they don't.


> something is keeping the car from
> accelerating.. you can just hit the gas.... and the RPM's will go
> way... way up into red line (if I let it, but I won't)...


yeah, got that. if you can't do this stuff yourself, you need to take
it to someone that knows what they're doing. with respect to your
buddy, the unfortunate truth is that he doesn't know as much as he
should or this would be fixed - by definition. i think you need a
second opinion. it may cost you quite a bit more, but it's cheaper than
buying a new car, and the fact that your motor clearly still has guts,
means this car's got sufficient life in it to justify the expense. see
if you can find an experienced independent honda mechanic, or a dealer
that's got some enthusiasts on staff.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2007, 12:26 am
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

jim beam wrote:
> mopa wrote:
>>>> The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
>>>> 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
>>>> replaced the clutch (flywheel)
>>> did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
>>> the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
>>> clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.

>>
>>> bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
>>> skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
>>> sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.

>>
>> ----
>>
>> Hey, Thanks for your reply Jim.
>>
>> Yeah, my friend replaced the entire thing; clutch, flywheel and all at
>> his shop, but right now he has no clue what it could be, because
>> everytime he checks it out, everything works out, because it is always
>> early morning.

>
> well, if he doesn't know what he's doing wrong, and clearly there's
> something up, how is he going to know enough to discover the problem?
>
>
>> The car only has issues accelerating when the engine
>> gets warm, or it is hot outside.

>
> friction plates hold less when they're hot - in brakes, that's known as
> "fade".
>
>
>> We just replaced the Slave Cylinder
>> thinking that it was keeping it from taking off the clutch off the
>> flywheel... but it wasn't that...

>
> hydraulic clutches are self-adjusting. generally, they either work or
> they don't.
>
>
>> something is keeping the car from
>> accelerating.. you can just hit the gas.... and the RPM's will go
>> way... way up into red line (if I let it, but I won't)...

>
> yeah, got that. if you can't do this stuff yourself, you need to take
> it to someone that knows what they're doing. with respect to your
> buddy, the unfortunate truth is that he doesn't know as much as he
> should or this would be fixed - by definition. i think you need a
> second opinion. it may cost you quite a bit more, but it's cheaper than
> buying a new car, and the fact that your motor clearly still has guts,
> means this car's got sufficient life in it to justify the expense. see
> if you can find an experienced independent honda mechanic, or a dealer
> that's got some enthusiasts on staff.
>


one more thing - look at your buddy's last invoice for this alleged
flywheel. the genuine article from honda is $200+, the friction and
pressure plates, ~$150. if your invoice doesn't have those items on it,
there's a problem with the story you're being told.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2007, 11:50 am
mopa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

On Dec 10, 1:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> jim beam wrote:
> > mopa wrote:
> >>>> The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
> >>>> 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
> >>>> replaced the clutch (flywheel)
> >>> did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
> >>> the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
> >>> clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.

>
> >>> bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
> >>> skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
> >>> sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.

>
> >> ----

>
> >> Hey, Thanks for your reply Jim.

>
> >> Yeah, my friend replaced the entire thing; clutch, flywheel and all at
> >> his shop, but right now he has no clue what it could be, because
> >> everytime he checks it out, everything works out, because it is always
> >> early morning.

>
> > well, if he doesn't know what he's doing wrong, and clearly there's
> > something up, how is he going to know enough to discover the problem?

>
> >> The car only has issues accelerating when the engine
> >> gets warm, or it is hot outside.

>
> > friction plates hold less when they're hot - in brakes, that's known as
> > "fade".

>
> >> We just replaced the Slave Cylinder
> >> thinking that it was keeping it from taking off the clutch off the
> >> flywheel... but it wasn't that...

>
> > hydraulic clutches are self-adjusting. generally, they either work or
> > they don't.

>
> >> something is keeping the car from
> >> accelerating.. you can just hit the gas.... and the RPM's will go
> >> way... way up into red line (if I let it, but I won't)...

>
> > yeah, got that. if you can't do this stuff yourself, you need to take
> > it to someone that knows what they're doing. with respect to your
> > buddy, the unfortunate truth is that he doesn't know as much as he
> > should or this would be fixed - by definition. i think you need a
> > second opinion. it may cost you quite a bit more, but it's cheaper than
> > buying a new car, and the fact that your motor clearly still has guts,
> > means this car's got sufficient life in it to justify the expense. see
> > if you can find an experienced independent honda mechanic, or a dealer
> > that's got some enthusiasts on staff.

>
> one more thing - look at your buddy's last invoice for this alleged
> flywheel. the genuine article from honda is $200+, the friction and
> pressure plates, ~$150. if your invoice doesn't have those items on it,
> there's a problem with the story you're being told.


------

Thanks for the reply Jim. It was $250 for all the parts. We spoke
today, and he believes it is the Master Cylinder (about 10 months old)
from Autozone, for some reason he said those do not always work the
best, so he told me to get a new one from O'Reilly Auto Parts.

Do you think it could be the Master Cylinder? or a defective cable
adjuster?

Thank you!
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2007, 03:05 pm
z
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

On Dec 10, 12:50 pm, mopa <butta...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 10, 1:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > jim beam wrote:
> > > mopa wrote:
> > >>>> The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
> > >>>> 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
> > >>>> replaced the clutch (flywheel)
> > >>> did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
> > >>> the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
> > >>> clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.

>
> > >>> bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
> > >>> skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
> > >>> sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.

>
> > >> ----

>
> > >> Hey, Thanks for your reply Jim.

>
> > >> Yeah, my friend replaced the entire thing; clutch, flywheel and all at
> > >> his shop, but right now he has no clue what it could be, because
> > >> everytime he checks it out, everything works out, because it is always
> > >> early morning.

>
> > > well, if he doesn't know what he's doing wrong, and clearly there's
> > > something up, how is he going to know enough to discover the problem?

>
> > >> The car only has issues accelerating when the engine
> > >> gets warm, or it is hot outside.

>
> > > friction plates hold less when they're hot - in brakes, that's known as
> > > "fade".

>
> > >> We just replaced the Slave Cylinder
> > >> thinking that it was keeping it from taking off the clutch off the
> > >> flywheel... but it wasn't that...

>
> > > hydraulic clutches are self-adjusting. generally, they either work or
> > > they don't.

>
> > >> something is keeping the car from
> > >> accelerating.. you can just hit the gas.... and the RPM's will go
> > >> way... way up into red line (if I let it, but I won't)...

>
> > > yeah, got that. if you can't do this stuff yourself, you need to take
> > > it to someone that knows what they're doing. with respect to your
> > > buddy, the unfortunate truth is that he doesn't know as much as he
> > > should or this would be fixed - by definition. i think you need a
> > > second opinion. it may cost you quite a bit more, but it's cheaper than
> > > buying a new car, and the fact that your motor clearly still has guts,
> > > means this car's got sufficient life in it to justify the expense. see
> > > if you can find an experienced independent honda mechanic, or a dealer
> > > that's got some enthusiasts on staff.

>
> > one more thing - look at your buddy's last invoice for this alleged
> > flywheel. the genuine article from honda is $200+, the friction and
> > pressure plates, ~$150. if your invoice doesn't have those items on it,
> > there's a problem with the story you're being told.

>
> ------
>
> Thanks for the reply Jim. It was $250 for all the parts. We spoke
> today, and he believes it is the Master Cylinder (about 10 months old)
> from Autozone, for some reason he said those do not always work the
> best, so he told me to get a new one from O'Reilly Auto Parts.
>
> Do you think it could be the Master Cylinder? or a defective cable
> adjuster?
>
> Thank you!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -


well, I don't know how it relates to your particular symptoms, but
sometimes you can replace both cylinders but crud in the line keeps
the pressure from releasing so the clutch slips for a while after you
shift. Just another thing to check. (goes for brake lines too).
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2007, 09:40 pm
jim beam
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

mopa wrote:
> On Dec 10, 1:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
>> jim beam wrote:
>>> mopa wrote:
>>>>>> The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
>>>>>> 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
>>>>>> replaced the clutch (flywheel)
>>>>> did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
>>>>> the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
>>>>> clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.
>>>>> bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
>>>>> skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
>>>>> sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.
>>>> ----
>>>> Hey, Thanks for your reply Jim.
>>>> Yeah, my friend replaced the entire thing; clutch, flywheel and all at
>>>> his shop, but right now he has no clue what it could be, because
>>>> everytime he checks it out, everything works out, because it is always
>>>> early morning.
>>> well, if he doesn't know what he's doing wrong, and clearly there's
>>> something up, how is he going to know enough to discover the problem?
>>>> The car only has issues accelerating when the engine
>>>> gets warm, or it is hot outside.
>>> friction plates hold less when they're hot - in brakes, that's known as
>>> "fade".
>>>> We just replaced the Slave Cylinder
>>>> thinking that it was keeping it from taking off the clutch off the
>>>> flywheel... but it wasn't that...
>>> hydraulic clutches are self-adjusting. generally, they either work or
>>> they don't.
>>>> something is keeping the car from
>>>> accelerating.. you can just hit the gas.... and the RPM's will go
>>>> way... way up into red line (if I let it, but I won't)...
>>> yeah, got that. if you can't do this stuff yourself, you need to take
>>> it to someone that knows what they're doing. with respect to your
>>> buddy, the unfortunate truth is that he doesn't know as much as he
>>> should or this would be fixed - by definition. i think you need a
>>> second opinion. it may cost you quite a bit more, but it's cheaper than
>>> buying a new car, and the fact that your motor clearly still has guts,
>>> means this car's got sufficient life in it to justify the expense. see
>>> if you can find an experienced independent honda mechanic, or a dealer
>>> that's got some enthusiasts on staff.

>> one more thing - look at your buddy's last invoice for this alleged
>> flywheel. the genuine article from honda is $200+, the friction and
>> pressure plates, ~$150. if your invoice doesn't have those items on it,
>> there's a problem with the story you're being told.

>
> ------
>
> Thanks for the reply Jim. It was $250 for all the parts.


so it's /highly/ unlikely he replaced the flywheel, simply skimmed it.


> We spoke
> today, and he believes it is the Master Cylinder (about 10 months old)
> from Autozone, for some reason he said those do not always work the
> best, so he told me to get a new one from O'Reilly Auto Parts.


unless there's something seriously wrong, like it's completely the wrong
component, i think a cylinder causing this problem is most unlikely.

>
> Do you think it could be the Master Cylinder? or a defective cable
> adjuster?


no cable in the clutch of the 93 civic. and it's unlikely to be the
clutch cylinders. the normal problem is that you fail to achieve
sufficient release pressure. a slipping clutch would be excess clutch
pressure - something i've never seen.

again, you need a second opinion from someone /other/ than the guy that
has repeatedly failed to fix it.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2007, 10:58 pm
mopa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

On Dec 10, 10:40 pm, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> mopa wrote:
> > On Dec 10, 1:26 am, jim beam <spamvor...@bad.example.net> wrote:
> >> jim beam wrote:
> >>> mopa wrote:
> >>>>>> The car worked wonders in the past, but the clutch went out at about
> >>>>>> 180,000 miles, so my good friend of mine who is a car mechanic
> >>>>>> replaced the clutch (flywheel)
> >>>>> did he replace the flywheel or did he have it skimmed? if the latter,
> >>>>> the clutch might not hold because removing too much material means the
> >>>>> clutch plate spring is not under enough pressure.
> >>>>> bottom line, check the facts on the flywheel story. if it's been
> >>>>> skimmed, you'll need to replace it since it's now fouled up. also, make
> >>>>> sure that whoever replaces the clutch this time uses honda parts.
> >>>> ----
> >>>> Hey, Thanks for your reply Jim.
> >>>> Yeah, my friend replaced the entire thing; clutch, flywheel and all at
> >>>> his shop, but right now he has no clue what it could be, because
> >>>> everytime he checks it out, everything works out, because it is always
> >>>> early morning.
> >>> well, if he doesn't know what he's doing wrong, and clearly there's
> >>> something up, how is he going to know enough to discover the problem?
> >>>> The car only has issues accelerating when the engine
> >>>> gets warm, or it is hot outside.
> >>> friction plates hold less when they're hot - in brakes, that's known as
> >>> "fade".
> >>>> We just replaced the Slave Cylinder
> >>>> thinking that it was keeping it from taking off the clutch off the
> >>>> flywheel... but it wasn't that...
> >>> hydraulic clutches are self-adjusting. generally, they either work or
> >>> they don't.
> >>>> something is keeping the car from
> >>>> accelerating.. you can just hit the gas.... and the RPM's will go
> >>>> way... way up into red line (if I let it, but I won't)...
> >>> yeah, got that. if you can't do this stuff yourself, you need to take
> >>> it to someone that knows what they're doing. with respect to your
> >>> buddy, the unfortunate truth is that he doesn't know as much as he
> >>> should or this would be fixed - by definition. i think you need a
> >>> second opinion. it may cost you quite a bit more, but it's cheaper than
> >>> buying a new car, and the fact that your motor clearly still has guts,
> >>> means this car's got sufficient life in it to justify the expense. see
> >>> if you can find an experienced independent honda mechanic, or a dealer
> >>> that's got some enthusiasts on staff.
> >> one more thing - look at your buddy's last invoice for this alleged
> >> flywheel. the genuine article from honda is $200+, the friction and
> >> pressure plates, ~$150. if your invoice doesn't have those items on it,
> >> there's a problem with the story you're being told.

>
> > ------

>
> > Thanks for the reply Jim. It was $250 for all the parts.

>
> so it's /highly/ unlikely he replaced the flywheel, simply skimmed it.
>
> > We spoke
> > today, and he believes it is the Master Cylinder (about 10 months old)
> > from Autozone, for some reason he said those do not always work the
> > best, so he told me to get a new one from O'Reilly Auto Parts.

>
> unless there's something seriously wrong, like it's completely the wrong
> component, i think a cylinder causing this problem is most unlikely.
>
>
>
> > Do you think it could be the Master Cylinder? or a defective cable
> > adjuster?

>
> no cable in the clutch of the 93 civic. and it's unlikely to be the
> clutch cylinders. the normal problem is that you fail to achieve
> sufficient release pressure. a slipping clutch would be excess clutch
> pressure - something i've never seen.
>
> again, you need a second opinion from someone /other/ than the guy that
> has repeatedly failed to fix it.



---------

Thanks Jim.

Yes, my friend John replaced the flywheel, he showed me the oil burn
marks from the last one as a result of the oil dripping on the wheel
and leaving these marks on it. What would cause the car not to pull? I
drove it to his shop today, and it worked fine in 1st and 2nd gear,
but when I put it into 3rd gear, the gas pedal just hit the floor and
the RPM's went way up... and went no where....

I don't know much about the details of how a clutch works, but I would
think after letting go of the clutch... and hitting the gas the clutch
would no longer be used. I guess the clutch always works, no matter if
its being pressed in or out... or just sitting.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10 Dec 2007, 11:00 pm
mopa
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 93 Civic LX - accelerating issues/wont gas right/slips

I bought the new master cylinder, and will see how that works. He's
doing all of this work free of charge, just as a good friend, so I am
pretty lucky. Of course, it would be better if it worked without no
problems.
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