Honda Car Forum

My timing belt broke on my 1989 Accord SEI. I guess it's a two liter fuel
injected. I managed to get it apart and get the new belt on. I got lucky and
didn't have any bent valves. The problem is figuring out where TDC is, so as
to be able to synchronize the cam and crank shafts. I have three books and
none of them show what the actual marks look like. Looking through the
little peep hole at them, I can see on the advanced side about three hash
marks, one of them red. Then as you go to the retard side there is a (0)
with no hash mark at all and then farther over to the retard side is another
mark or so. Why in hell can't they just have TDC and a mark next to it? If
it wasn't a solo job I guess I could try the stick in the spark plug hole to
find TDC. I've never done that and am a little afraid of crunching it in the
cylinder.

Anywhoooo ... I got it running, set the timing and took it for a drive
around the block and thought it was OK. I let my son drive it 90 miles to
school and back this morning. He said that it didn't run right, so I tried
it out again. It runs like it's way under powered and has a bogging down
sound when you accelerate, as well as pinging. I guess I'm probably a tooth
off one way or the other. Any ideas or thoughts on this? Which way too far
and am I gonna burn the valves up. Thanks in advance, for any and all
responses.

Try page 78 ( = 6-16) of the following pdf site:

http://media.honda.co.uk/car/owner/m...e300.pdf?flv=8

Also try:
http://www.autozone.com/az/cds/en_us...rInfoPages.htm

The stick in the spark plug hole of #1 cylinder should work
fine, too. Rotating only by hand should not damage anything,
assuming you do not force rotation too much. Remember the
front passenger side wheel has to be on the ground to get
the engine to rotate via turning the front driver's side
wheel.

The red marks do not indicate TDC; they are for setting the
ignition timing. You should follow the procedure for
checking the ignition timing anytime after replacing the
timing belt.

Reports of being off a tooth are fairly common at this
newsgroup. Hang in there.



"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote
> My timing belt broke on my 1989 Accord SEI. I guess it's a
> two liter fuel injected. Looking through the little peep
> hole at them, I can see on the advanced side about three
> hash marks, one of them red. Then as you go to the retard
> side there is a (0) with no hash mark at all and then
> farther over to the retard side is another mark or so. Why
> in hell can't they just have TDC and a mark next to it? If
> it wasn't a solo job I guess I could try the stick in the
> spark plug hole to find TDC. I've never done that and am a
> little afraid of crunching it in the cylinder.
>
> Anywhoooo ... I got it running, set the timing and took it
> for a drive around the block and thought it was OK. I let
> my son drive it 90 miles to school and back this morning.
> He said that it didn't run right, so I tried it out again.
> It runs like it's way under powered and has a bogging down
> sound when you accelerate, as well as pinging. I guess I'm
> probably a tooth off one way or the other. Any ideas or
> thoughts on this? Which way too far and am I gonna burn
> the valves up. Thanks in advance, for any and all
> responses.
>

Elle wrote:

> Reports of being off a tooth are fairly common at this
> newsgroup. Hang in there.

------------------------------

So are reports of people 'slapping it together' and then letting
somebody else go for a 90 mile drive with it.

What's with that ?! ? ! ?

'Curly'

"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:fXJ2j.65894$RX.32866@newssvr11.news.prodigy.n et:

> My timing belt broke on my 1989 Accord SEI. I guess it's a two liter
> fuel injected. I managed to get it apart and get the new belt on. I
> got lucky and didn't have any bent valves. The problem is figuring out
> where TDC is, so as to be able to synchronize the cam and crank
> shafts. I have three books and none of them show what the actual marks
> look like. Looking through the little peep hole at them, I can see on
> the advanced side about three hash marks, one of them red. Then as you
> go to the retard side there is a (0) with no hash mark at all and then
> farther over to the retard side is another mark or so. Why in hell
> can't they just have TDC and a mark next to it? If it wasn't a solo
> job I guess I could try the stick in the spark plug hole to find TDC.
> I've never done that and am a little afraid of crunching it in the
> cylinder.
>
> Anywhoooo ... I got it running, set the timing and took it for a drive
> around the block and thought it was OK. I let my son drive it 90
> miles to school and back this morning. He said that it didn't run
> right, so I tried it out again. It runs like it's way under powered
> and has a bogging down sound when you accelerate, as well as pinging.
> I guess I'm probably a tooth off one way or the other. Any ideas or
> thoughts on this? Which way too far and am I gonna burn the valves up.
> Thanks in advance, for any and all responses.
>
>




There's a good chance the belt is off a tooth.

It's too bad you didn't have the correct manual before installing the
timing belt. The TDC mark is WHITE and is all alone on the flywheel. You
needed to have the white mark lined up with the pointer, plus the cam
pulley marks in the right place, before installing the timing belt.

The red mark in the middle of the group of three is the mark that should
show up next to the pointer when the timing light is activated and the
timing is set correctly.

Also you need to disconnect and plug the vacuum lines to the vacuum advance
diaphragm when setting timing.

If I were you, I'd start all over again with that belt.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns99F5174B04863tegger@207.14.116.130...
> "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:fXJ2j.65894$RX.32866@newssvr11.news.prodigy.n et:
>
>> My timing belt broke on my 1989 Accord SEI. I guess it's a two liter
>> fuel injected. I managed to get it apart and get the new belt on. I
>> got lucky and didn't have any bent valves. The problem is figuring out
>> where TDC is, so as to be able to synchronize the cam and crank
>> shafts. I have three books and none of them show what the actual marks
>> look like. Looking through the little peep hole at them, I can see on
>> the advanced side about three hash marks, one of them red. Then as you
>> go to the retard side there is a (0) with no hash mark at all and then
>> farther over to the retard side is another mark or so. Why in hell
>> can't they just have TDC and a mark next to it? If it wasn't a solo
>> job I guess I could try the stick in the spark plug hole to find TDC.
>> I've never done that and am a little afraid of crunching it in the
>> cylinder.
>>
>> Anywhoooo ... I got it running, set the timing and took it for a drive
>> around the block and thought it was OK. I let my son drive it 90
>> miles to school and back this morning. He said that it didn't run
>> right, so I tried it out again. It runs like it's way under powered
>> and has a bogging down sound when you accelerate, as well as pinging.
>> I guess I'm probably a tooth off one way or the other. Any ideas or
>> thoughts on this? Which way too far and am I gonna burn the valves up.
>> Thanks in advance, for any and all responses.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> There's a good chance the belt is off a tooth.
>
> It's too bad you didn't have the correct manual before installing the
> timing belt. The TDC mark is WHITE and is all alone on the flywheel. You
> needed to have the white mark lined up with the pointer, plus the cam
> pulley marks in the right place, before installing the timing belt.
>
> The red mark in the middle of the group of three is the mark that should
> show up next to the pointer when the timing light is activated and the
> timing is set correctly.
>
> Also you need to disconnect and plug the vacuum lines to the vacuum
> advance
> diaphragm when setting timing.
>
> If I were you, I'd start all over again with that belt.
>
>
> --
> Tegger
>
> The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
> www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Thanks for the reply ... My problem is that there is no WHITE mark. I see
the red mark on the advance side and then when it moves over to the retard
side I get a large space and then a, what looks like a zero, another space
and then two hash marks. After that it drops off into the abyss. The whole
surface disappears.

"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:kaS2j.65917$RX.22722@newssvr11.news.prodigy.n et:


>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the reply ... My problem is that there is no WHITE mark. I
> see the red mark on the advance side and then when it moves over to
> the retard side I get a large space and then a, what looks like a
> zero, another space and then two hash marks. After that it drops off
> into the abyss. The whole surface disappears.
>
>
>


Your TDC is the "zero" mark on the retard side past the group of three. The
key here is that the TDC mark is all by itself on the flywheel, no matter
what it actually looks like.

You can confirm this with a bent coat hanger or long skinny screwdriver:
With the engine turned to be as close as possible to what you think is TDC,
remove the #1 spark plug, insert the coat hanger so it touches the piston
top, then turn the engine a few degrees either way with a ratchet and 19mm
socket. Watch the coat hanger carefully and make sure it doesn't shift on
the piston. TDC is the top of the bobbing motion.

By the way, the flywheel will not always be installed when the timing belt
is put on. For this reason there is usually a corresponding TDC mark on the
crank nose or crank timing belt pulley, so you may want to take off enough
parts to check for that. If you have the crank TDC mark, you don't need to
do the coat hanger thing.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

"Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
news:Xns99F55EC85B2A8tegger@207.14.116.130...
> "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
> news:kaS2j.65917$RX.22722@newssvr11.news.prodigy.n et:
>
>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for the reply ... My problem is that there is no WHITE mark. I
>> see the red mark on the advance side and then when it moves over to
>> the retard side I get a large space and then a, what looks like a
>> zero, another space and then two hash marks. After that it drops off
>> into the abyss. The whole surface disappears.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> Your TDC is the "zero" mark on the retard side past the group of three.
> The
> key here is that the TDC mark is all by itself on the flywheel, no matter
> what it actually looks like.
>
Well, missed it again. I didn't have a white mark, so thought that one of
the marks on the retard side of the zero might have been white 18 years ago
and used that one. At least it's running better than it was when it was too
far the other way. The distributor would only go so far and ended up being
set a degree or so BTDC. I need a new lower timing belt cover and the local
Honda dealer has to order it. He said it would take a couple of days. I'll
go over there today and order it and hopefully the valves don't cook over
the next few days. I guess, since I have to tear it apart again, I ought to
replace the camshaft seal behind the sprocket. One silver lining, in a small
cloud, is that I replaced the leaking (O) ring on the distributor shaft. The
one on it was so cooked that it broke into small pieces that were more like
carbon than rubber. Thanks for the help.

"Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:mV03j.27638$Pv2.25295@newssvr23.news.prodigy. net:

>
> "Tegger" <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote in message
> news:Xns99F55EC85B2A8tegger@207.14.116.130...
>> "Forrest" <REMOVETHISrunforrest1@hotmail.com> wrote in
>> news:kaS2j.65917$RX.22722@newssvr11.news.prodigy.n et:
>>
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply ... My problem is that there is no WHITE mark.
>>> I see the red mark on the advance side and then when it moves over
>>> to the retard side I get a large space and then a, what looks like a
>>> zero, another space and then two hash marks. After that it drops off
>>> into the abyss. The whole surface disappears.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Your TDC is the "zero" mark on the retard side past the group of
>> three. The
>> key here is that the TDC mark is all by itself on the flywheel, no
>> matter what it actually looks like.
>>
> Well, missed it again. I didn't have a white mark, so thought that one
> of the marks on the retard side of the zero might have been white 18
> years ago



If the red one is still red, the white one would have still been white.
When one goes the other disappears at the same time.

The paint normally disappears on cars where the marks are on the exposed
crank pulley, not the ones where the marks are on the relatively well-
protected flywheel.



> and used that one. At least it's running better than it was
> when it was too far the other way. The distributor would only go so
> far and ended up being set a degree or so BTDC. I need a new lower
> timing belt cover and the local Honda dealer has to order it. He said
> it would take a couple of days. I'll go over there today and order it
> and hopefully the valves don't cook over the next few days.



Severely retarded timing will do more than cook your (expensive) exhaust
valves, it will destroy your (expensive) catalytic converter, maybe even
to the point of collapsing the (expensive) honeycomb inside and plugging
the exhaust.

I would strongly advise parking this thing permanently until you get the
belt sorted out. Limit your damage and your expenditures.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/