Honda Car Forum

"loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote in news:776426e1cedc2@uwe:

> unless my theory is correct and the brake caliper overheating caused the
> bearing failure.


I think that's rather unlikely.

The bearing failures I've seen are caused by corrosion and impact.

If the heat from the caliper were to cook the bearing's grease enough to
cause bearing damage, I can't see that being evident for many tens of
thousands of miles. Before you heard noise, the surface of the balls would
have to begin breaking up, which doesn't happen in a few weeks.


>
> Oh yeah, they gave me a 35% discount on the bearing when I brought it up.
> Decided not to push it.



Take it. It's a good deal, considering they are almost certainly blameless
for the bearing.

Get the old bearing back and take pictures if you can. I'd like to see
them. I'll bet you'll find rust on the races.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Busted the lower bolt on the passenger side rear upper arm.

SHIT.

t

Tegger wrote:
>> unless my theory is correct and the brake caliper overheating caused the
>> bearing failure.
>
>I think that's rather unlikely.
>
>The bearing failures I've seen are caused by corrosion and impact.
>
>If the heat from the caliper were to cook the bearing's grease enough to
>cause bearing damage, I can't see that being evident for many tens of
>thousands of miles. Before you heard noise, the surface of the balls would
>have to begin breaking up, which doesn't happen in a few weeks.
>
>> Oh yeah, they gave me a 35% discount on the bearing when I brought it up.
>> Decided not to push it.
>
>Take it. It's a good deal, considering they are almost certainly blameless
>for the bearing.
>
>Get the old bearing back and take pictures if you can. I'd like to see
>them. I'll bet you'll find rust on the races.
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200708/1

"loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote in news:77727ed8eda56@uwe:

> Busted the lower bolt on the passenger side rear upper arm.



You mean the outer bolt, the one that goes into the top of the trailing
arm?

Did the head break off?

Did you use an electric impact wrench (rentable)?

--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Its a #10 x 62 bolt as per Majestic Honda microfiche (98 civic LX 5MT, Rear
lower arm), which I am pretty sure is the one you indicated. Its part number
18 on this page : http://tinyurl.com/youdwa

I was using impact, borrowed my bro-in-laws compressor. Tried 2 guns, first
the big beasty he has (650 ft-lb) and then the little one (more bangs per
minute). The bolt was severely seized inside the outer bushing. I had put
some Zep 45 penetrating oil on it several times over the past couple days in
preparation for this job. The driver side was difficult as well, but I broke
through the rust on that one. The passenger side never came close to letting
go. I guess sometimes thats just the way it goes....

On the driver side, the inner bushing fell out of the arm when I removed the
inner bolts. Obviously in need of replacement. The outer bushing was not in
terrible shape, but there was some play.

On the passenger side, the inner bushing was worn, and I was able to get it
out with a little effort. The outer bushing I have no idea as I destroyed it
trying to get the freakin bolt out.

In fact, the bolt was so seized in the bushing sleeve (made of aluminum of
all things) that it started to push the mounting points apart and bend the
trailing arm. Put a stop to that buy using a C-Clamp to prevent them from
spreading. Had to be careful though, as I did not want to ruin the threads
in the welded nut. After I got it out, I whacked the mounting points back in
line with a hammer. Then used the bolt I didn't snap to ensure it was lined
up.

After an hour of impact, I used the breaker bar on the stubborn bolt and the
head snapped off. I used and angle grinder to get the rest out.

Off to the dealer for a new bolt. I'll probably get 2, the bolt is machined
with ridges on it to prevent spinning. I'm thinking a new bolt on both sides
will help prevent loosening over time as there is no other method being used
to prevent spinning out.

Or should I be using loctite on the welded nut?

By the way, inspection of the front big bushing on the lower arm yielded some
cracking. However, I think these have a ways to go before they will need
replacement. Guess I will find out during the alignment.

Also, I realized I didn't respond to your question a few messages ago about
my suspension inspection (ie the tie rods). I had the car on ramps and was
underneath on a creeper, so to answer your question, yes the wheels were at
ride height, since all 4 tires were on the ground.

t

Tegger wrote:
>> Busted the lower bolt on the passenger side rear upper arm.
>
>You mean the outer bolt, the one that goes into the top of the trailing
>arm?
>
>Did the head break off?
>
>Did you use an electric impact wrench (rentable)?
>

--
Message posted via http://www.carkb.com

"loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote in news:777803d5df6e8@uwe:


>
> After an hour of impact, I used the breaker bar on the stubborn bolt
> and the head snapped off. I used and angle grinder to get the rest
> out.



Here's a trick you might want to try next time: /TIGHTEN/ the bolt before
trying to crack it loose.

Another trick: Since you don't care what happens to the bushing rubber,
heat the bolt head and nut to orange with a torch, then let them cool all
the way down. Then try the tighten/loosen thing. This is remarkably
effective.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Forgot to mention that I used those technics as well (didn't mention cuz they
didn't work!). Though I only had a propane torch, so I doubt I could get it
hot enough.

Also, the big reason impact is less effective in this application is because
of the rubber bushing. It cushions the assembly from the full effect of the
impact.

Just got back from the dealer. I'm walking a little funny... The bolts they
gave me cost $12 each!

Majestic Honda = $0.78.

WTF!! I hate dealers.

t

Tegger wrote:
>> After an hour of impact, I used the breaker bar on the stubborn bolt
>> and the head snapped off. I used and angle grinder to get the rest
>> out.
>
>Here's a trick you might want to try next time: /TIGHTEN/ the bolt before
>trying to crack it loose.
>
>Another trick: Since you don't care what happens to the bushing rubber,
>heat the bolt head and nut to orange with a torch, then let them cool all
>the way down. Then try the tighten/loosen thing. This is remarkably
>effective.
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200708/1

"loewent via CarKB.com" <u10197@uwe> wrote in news:77784a60b4a2a@uwe:

> Forgot to mention that I used those technics as well (didn't mention
> cuz they didn't work!). Though I only had a propane torch, so I doubt
> I could get it hot enough.



A propane torch should be just fine. You only need to head up the
threads in the nut, and the bottom of the head. Another thing you could
try is to dump a large amount of ice water on the orange-hot parts. The
thermal shock may well break the rust seal.


>
> Also, the big reason impact is less effective in this application is
> because of the rubber bushing. It cushions the assembly from the full
> effect of the impact.


That's why you tighten first. Tightening clamps the bushing sleeve to
the arm, forcing the bolt to be the one and only thing that moves. With
the sleeve clamped thusly, the bushing has no effect on impact effort.

If you tried all these things and the bolt just wouldn't let go, you
must have had some seriously bad corrosion. One of my rear bolts (damper
fork/LCA) was like that, and required to be ground off.


>
> Just got back from the dealer. I'm walking a little funny... The
> bolts they gave me cost $12 each!
>
> Majestic Honda = $0.78.


Majestic may be buying local bolts rather than ordering them from Honda.
The correct bolts have fine threads, and usually have fluting on their
shanks.


>
> WTF!! I hate dealers.



I bought all my suspension fasteners from the dealer. A big price, but
at least they're correct for the car.


--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/

Alrighty. First, thanks Tegger and jim beam for your input.

Put the back end of my car back together tonight. New rear upper arms, and
new shocks (monroe). Seems to have taken care of the play I mentioned
earlier. New shocks also make the car sit a little higher than before. The
old shocks were tired....

Snapped another bolt (shock mount to lower arm), but thankfully I had an
extra (dealer actually sold me those bolts instead of the other one I broke
yesterday, they didn't have the right one in stock. These are the shock
mount bolt and the lower arm to trailing arm pivot bolt).

Drives like a champ. Well a champ in need of an alignment... Saturday will
bring me to the front end. Will be doing that wheel bearing, the passenger
caliper, and the front shocks. The guy at Partsource sold me some stabilizer
bar links. For the life of me I can't seem to remember there being a
stabilizer bar on my car. I thought that they were just in the SIs. But
perhaps I've just never noticed it.

One thing... how hard is it to screw up reassembly of the strut in the rear?
For some reason, I couldn't get the top mounting collar to seat where I
thought it should. The strut went back on no problem and everything seems ok,
but I found it a bit odd.

After front end stuff is done, its off to the tire shop.

And after seeing how complex the rear wishbone is, its going to the dealer
for alignment. Don't trust just any monkey to monkey around with all that
stuff...

t

Tegger wrote:
>> Forgot to mention that I used those technics as well (didn't mention
>> cuz they didn't work!). Though I only had a propane torch, so I doubt
>> I could get it hot enough.
>
>A propane torch should be just fine. You only need to head up the
>threads in the nut, and the bottom of the head. Another thing you could
>try is to dump a large amount of ice water on the orange-hot parts. The
>thermal shock may well break the rust seal.
>
>> Also, the big reason impact is less effective in this application is
>> because of the rubber bushing. It cushions the assembly from the full
>> effect of the impact.
>
>That's why you tighten first. Tightening clamps the bushing sleeve to
>the arm, forcing the bolt to be the one and only thing that moves. With
>the sleeve clamped thusly, the bushing has no effect on impact effort.
>
>If you tried all these things and the bolt just wouldn't let go, you
>must have had some seriously bad corrosion. One of my rear bolts (damper
>fork/LCA) was like that, and required to be ground off.
>
>> Just got back from the dealer. I'm walking a little funny... The
>> bolts they gave me cost $12 each!
>>
>> Majestic Honda = $0.78.
>
>Majestic may be buying local bolts rather than ordering them from Honda.
>The correct bolts have fine threads, and usually have fluting on their
>shanks.
>
>> WTF!! I hate dealers.
>
>I bought all my suspension fasteners from the dealer. A big price, but
>at least they're correct for the car.
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200708/1

Alrighty. First, thanks Tegger and jim beam for your input.

Put the back end of my car back together tonight. New rear upper arms, and
new shocks (monroe). Seems to have taken care of the play I mentioned
earlier. New shocks also make the car sit a little higher than before. The
old shocks were tired....

Snapped another bolt (shock mount to lower arm), but thankfully I had an
extra (dealer actually sold me those bolts instead of the other one I broke
yesterday, they didn't have the right one in stock. These are the shock
mount bolt and the lower arm to trailing arm pivot bolt).

Drives like a champ. Well a champ in need of an alignment... Saturday will
bring me to the front end. Will be doing that wheel bearing, the passenger
caliper, and the front shocks. The guy at Partsource sold me some stabilizer
bar links. For the life of me I can't seem to remember there being a
stabilizer bar on my car. I thought that they were just in the SIs. But
perhaps I've just never noticed it.

One thing... how hard is it to screw up reassembly of the strut in the rear?
For some reason, I couldn't get the top mounting collar to seat where I
thought it should. The strut went back on no problem and everything seems ok,
but I found it a bit odd.

After front end stuff is done, its off to the tire shop.

And after seeing how complex the rear wishbone is, its going to the dealer
for alignment. Don't trust just any monkey to monkey around with all that
stuff...

t

Tegger wrote:
>> Forgot to mention that I used those technics as well (didn't mention
>> cuz they didn't work!). Though I only had a propane torch, so I doubt
>> I could get it hot enough.
>
>A propane torch should be just fine. You only need to head up the
>threads in the nut, and the bottom of the head. Another thing you could
>try is to dump a large amount of ice water on the orange-hot parts. The
>thermal shock may well break the rust seal.
>
>> Also, the big reason impact is less effective in this application is
>> because of the rubber bushing. It cushions the assembly from the full
>> effect of the impact.
>
>That's why you tighten first. Tightening clamps the bushing sleeve to
>the arm, forcing the bolt to be the one and only thing that moves. With
>the sleeve clamped thusly, the bushing has no effect on impact effort.
>
>If you tried all these things and the bolt just wouldn't let go, you
>must have had some seriously bad corrosion. One of my rear bolts (damper
>fork/LCA) was like that, and required to be ground off.
>
>> Just got back from the dealer. I'm walking a little funny... The
>> bolts they gave me cost $12 each!
>>
>> Majestic Honda = $0.78.
>
>Majestic may be buying local bolts rather than ordering them from Honda.
>The correct bolts have fine threads, and usually have fluting on their
>shanks.
>
>> WTF!! I hate dealers.
>
>I bought all my suspension fasteners from the dealer. A big price, but
>at least they're correct for the car.
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200708/1

Alrighty. First, thanks Tegger and jim beam for your input.

Put the back end of my car back together tonight. New rear upper arms, and
new shocks (monroe). Seems to have taken care of the play I mentioned
earlier. New shocks also make the car sit a little higher than before. The
old shocks were tired....

Snapped another bolt (shock mount to lower arm), but thankfully I had an
extra (dealer actually sold me those bolts instead of the other one I broke
yesterday, they didn't have the right one in stock. These are the shock
mount bolt and the lower arm to trailing arm pivot bolt).

Drives like a champ. Well a champ in need of an alignment... Saturday will
bring me to the front end. Will be doing that wheel bearing, the passenger
caliper, and the front shocks. The guy at Partsource sold me some stabilizer
bar links. For the life of me I can't seem to remember there being a
stabilizer bar on my car. I thought that they were just in the SIs. But
perhaps I've just never noticed it.

One thing... how hard is it to screw up reassembly of the strut in the rear?
For some reason, I couldn't get the top mounting collar to seat where I
thought it should. The strut went back on no problem and everything seems ok,
but I found it a bit odd.

After front end stuff is done, its off to the tire shop.

And after seeing how complex the rear wishbone is, its going to the dealer
for alignment. Don't trust just any monkey to monkey around with all that
stuff...

t

Tegger wrote:
>> Forgot to mention that I used those technics as well (didn't mention
>> cuz they didn't work!). Though I only had a propane torch, so I doubt
>> I could get it hot enough.
>
>A propane torch should be just fine. You only need to head up the
>threads in the nut, and the bottom of the head. Another thing you could
>try is to dump a large amount of ice water on the orange-hot parts. The
>thermal shock may well break the rust seal.
>
>> Also, the big reason impact is less effective in this application is
>> because of the rubber bushing. It cushions the assembly from the full
>> effect of the impact.
>
>That's why you tighten first. Tightening clamps the bushing sleeve to
>the arm, forcing the bolt to be the one and only thing that moves. With
>the sleeve clamped thusly, the bushing has no effect on impact effort.
>
>If you tried all these things and the bolt just wouldn't let go, you
>must have had some seriously bad corrosion. One of my rear bolts (damper
>fork/LCA) was like that, and required to be ground off.
>
>> Just got back from the dealer. I'm walking a little funny... The
>> bolts they gave me cost $12 each!
>>
>> Majestic Honda = $0.78.
>
>Majestic may be buying local bolts rather than ordering them from Honda.
>The correct bolts have fine threads, and usually have fluting on their
>shanks.
>
>> WTF!! I hate dealers.
>
>I bought all my suspension fasteners from the dealer. A big price, but
>at least they're correct for the car.
>

--
Message posted via CarKB.com
http://www.carkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx...-cars/200708/1