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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2007, 07:27 am
chuck
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Default Code 16 on a '91 Civic

This problem has been driving my nuts for awhile. I've changed the
injectors. What happens is that the check enigine light comes on (the
code 16) and if the car is idleing for 5 minutes it starts smoking,
floods out and dies. Sometimes it'll die at a stop sign too. No amount
of cranking will clear it and allow it to start. If I pull the wires to
the injectors it'll clear the flooded condition and start right up. I
hate to replace the ECU and find that the condition is caused by some
sensor. So, I guess my question is; is there some sensor that can cause
this problem and what's the test proceedure for the sensor. BTW, it's a
1.5l DPI engine.

Thanks for any help.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2007, 05:47 pm
Woody
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Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

Try a google search. Lots of answers and checks. Search "Honda Civic code
16"


"chuck" <chuck@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:r6Yvi.3411$r14.741@trndny06...
> This problem has been driving my nuts for awhile. I've changed the
> injectors. What happens is that the check enigine light comes on (the
> code 16) and if the car is idleing for 5 minutes it starts smoking,
> floods out and dies. Sometimes it'll die at a stop sign too. No amount
> of cranking will clear it and allow it to start. If I pull the wires to
> the injectors it'll clear the flooded condition and start right up. I
> hate to replace the ECU and find that the condition is caused by some
> sensor. So, I guess my question is; is there some sensor that can cause
> this problem and what's the test proceedure for the sensor. BTW, it's a
> 1.5l DPI engine.
>
> Thanks for any help.



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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2007, 05:56 pm
Eric
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Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

chuck wrote:
>
> This problem has been driving my nuts for awhile. I've changed the
> injectors. What happens is that the check enigine light comes on (the
> code 16) and if the car is idleing for 5 minutes it starts smoking,
> floods out and dies. Sometimes it'll die at a stop sign too. No amount
> of cranking will clear it and allow it to start. If I pull the wires to
> the injectors it'll clear the flooded condition and start right up. I
> hate to replace the ECU and find that the condition is caused by some
> sensor. So, I guess my question is; is there some sensor that can cause
> this problem and what's the test proceedure for the sensor. BTW, it's a
> 1.5l DPI engine.
>
> Thanks for any help.


Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. The main relay is located
under the the dash at the far left side by the coin tray and it controls the
fuel injectors. A relay failure is quite common with a car of this age. A
common problem with the relay is cracked solder joints and some people have
success resoldering them. I chose to replace mine with a new one from Honda
as the contacts inside the relay were pitted like an old set of distributor
points. Note that a new relay will run you about $40 or so.

Eric
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2007, 06:32 pm
Grahame
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Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

> Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. The main relay is located
> under the the dash at the far left side by the coin tray and it controls the
> fuel injectors. A relay failure is quite common with a car of this age. A
> common problem with the relay is cracked solder joints and some people have
> success resoldering them. I chose to replace mine with a new one from Honda
> as the contacts inside the relay were pitted like an old set of distributor
> points. Note that a new relay will run you about $40 or so.
>
> Eric


A bad main relay will not set any trouble codes, the main relay
controls the fuel pump and when it fails the car will not start,
usualy when it gets hot outside. This is not the problem Chuck
describes. Sounds more like a fuel pressure problem.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2007, 06:59 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

Grahame <grahame.news@rogers.com> wrote in
news:1187047947.381977.212860@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com:

>> Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. The main relay is
>> located under the the dash at the far left side by the coin tray and
>> it controls the fuel injectors. A relay failure is quite common with
>> a car of this age. A common problem with the relay is cracked solder
>> joints and some people have success resoldering them. I chose to
>> replace mine with a new one from Honda as the contacts inside the
>> relay were pitted like an old set of distributor points. Note that a
>> new relay will run you about $40 or so.
>>
>> Eric

>
> A bad main relay will not set any trouble codes, the main relay
> controls the fuel pump and when it fails the car will not start,
> usualy when it gets hot outside. This is not the problem Chuck
> describes. Sounds more like a fuel pressure problem.
>
>




Actually, if just the right solder location cracks, the Main Relay CAN
set a code 16.
http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainr...mainrelay.html

However, this will be accompanied by a no-start, not a flooded
condition.

OP has not stated the trim level of his Civic. I suspect it is below an
Si, in which case it has dual-point throttle body injection.

I agree with Grahame here; check the fuel pressure. That is a good place
to start. Certainly a better one than replacing injectors; Keihin
injector failure is extremely rare.

Also, the OP has failed to indicate whether the problem occurs on a cold
start or when hot. This is important. Is the cold-start injector (the
upper one) still spraying fuel after five minutes of idling? Has the OP
tried pulling ONLY the connector for the UPPER injector?



--
Tegger

The Unofficial Honda/Acura FAQ
www.tegger.com/hondafaq/
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2007, 09:06 pm
jim beam
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Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

chuck wrote:
> This problem has been driving my nuts for awhile. I've changed the
> injectors. What happens is that the check enigine light comes on (the
> code 16) and if the car is idleing for 5 minutes it starts smoking,
> floods out and dies. Sometimes it'll die at a stop sign too. No amount
> of cranking will clear it and allow it to start. If I pull the wires to
> the injectors it'll clear the flooded condition and start right up. I
> hate to replace the ECU and find that the condition is caused by some
> sensor. So, I guess my question is; is there some sensor that can cause
> this problem and what's the test proceedure for the sensor. BTW, it's a
> 1.5l DPI engine.
>
> Thanks for any help.



i don't think code 16 is your problem* - here's what i think is the clue:

"I've changed the injectors."

with the throttle body injection, the injectors are deep set and have 2
or 3 o-ring seals on them. on reinsertion, if you didn't grease
properly, i think you snagged one of the o-rings and now you're leaking
fuel into the t.b. you'll have to re-pull the injectors and check.

but this begs the question of why you pulled them in the first place -
is this a california vehicle and do you have a hesitation problem?


* - code 16 is usually a main relay problem. it happens on hondas this
age. either re-solder or replace as a matter of course. it won't
affect your injectors with the symptoms you describe.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2007, 09:08 pm
jim beam
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

Grahame wrote:
>> Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. The main relay is located
>> under the the dash at the far left side by the coin tray and it controls the
>> fuel injectors. A relay failure is quite common with a car of this age. A
>> common problem with the relay is cracked solder joints and some people have
>> success resoldering them. I chose to replace mine with a new one from Honda
>> as the contacts inside the relay were pitted like an old set of distributor
>> points. Note that a new relay will run you about $40 or so.
>>
>> Eric

>
> A bad main relay will not set any trouble codes,


in my experience, it does set a #16 on this vehicle. i've had no less
than 5 [yes five] 88-91 dpfi hondas with this problem. new/resoldered
relays fix it every time.

> the main relay
> controls the fuel pump and when it fails the car will not start,
> usualy when it gets hot outside. This is not the problem Chuck
> describes. Sounds more like a fuel pressure problem.
>

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 14 Aug 2007, 06:32 am
chuck
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

On 2007-08-13, Grahame <grahame.news@rogers.com> wrote:
>> Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. The main relay is located
>> under the the dash at the far left side by the coin tray and it controls the
>> fuel injectors. A relay failure is quite common with a car of this age. A
>> common problem with the relay is cracked solder joints and some people have
>> success resoldering them. I chose to replace mine with a new one from Honda
>> as the contacts inside the relay were pitted like an old set of distributor
>> points. Note that a new relay will run you about $40 or so.
>>
>> Eric

>
> A bad main relay will not set any trouble codes, the main relay
> controls the fuel pump and when it fails the car will not start,
> usualy when it gets hot outside. This is not the problem Chuck
> describes. Sounds more like a fuel pressure problem.
>


I checked this. 40psi at the fuel filter with the vacuum hose
disconnected.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 14 Aug 2007, 06:43 am
dgk
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

On Mon, 13 Aug 2007 19:08:57 -0700, jim beam
<spamvortex@bad.example.net> wrote:

>Grahame wrote:
>>> Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. The main relay is located
>>> under the the dash at the far left side by the coin tray and it controls the
>>> fuel injectors. A relay failure is quite common with a car of this age. A
>>> common problem with the relay is cracked solder joints and some people have
>>> success resoldering them. I chose to replace mine with a new one from Honda
>>> as the contacts inside the relay were pitted like an old set of distributor
>>> points. Note that a new relay will run you about $40 or so.
>>>
>>> Eric

>>
>> A bad main relay will not set any trouble codes,

>
>in my experience, it does set a #16 on this vehicle. i've had no less
>than 5 [yes five] 88-91 dpfi hondas with this problem. new/resoldered
>relays fix it every time.
>


I have a 91 Accord. Would you suggest replacing the relay on a
preventive basis? I have no symptoms and want none.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 14 Aug 2007, 06:45 am
chuck
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Code 16 on a '91 Civic

On 2007-08-13, Tegger <tegger@tegger.c0m> wrote:
> Grahame <grahame.news@rogers.com> wrote in
> news:1187047947.381977.212860@q75g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com:
>
>>> Code 16 often indicates a failed main relay. The main relay is
>>> located under the the dash at the far left side by the coin tray and
>>> it controls the fuel injectors. A relay failure is quite common with
>>> a car of this age. A common problem with the relay is cracked solder
>>> joints and some people have success resoldering them. I chose to
>>> replace mine with a new one from Honda as the contacts inside the
>>> relay were pitted like an old set of distributor points. Note that a
>>> new relay will run you about $40 or so.
>>>
>>> Eric

>>
>> A bad main relay will not set any trouble codes, the main relay
>> controls the fuel pump and when it fails the car will not start,
>> usualy when it gets hot outside. This is not the problem Chuck
>> describes. Sounds more like a fuel pressure problem.
>>
>>

>
>
>
> Actually, if just the right solder location cracks, the Main Relay CAN
> set a code 16.
> http://www.tegger.com/hondafaq/mainr...mainrelay.html
>
> However, this will be accompanied by a no-start, not a flooded
> condition.
>
> OP has not stated the trim level of his Civic. I suspect it is below an
> Si, in which case it has dual-point throttle body injection.
>


Yes, it's a DPI.

> I agree with Grahame here; check the fuel pressure. That is a good place
> to start. Certainly a better one than replacing injectors; Keihin
> injector failure is extremely rare.
>


The fuel pressure checked ok.

> Also, the OP has failed to indicate whether the problem occurs on a cold
> start or when hot. This is important. Is the cold-start injector (the
> upper one) still spraying fuel after five minutes of idling? Has the OP
> tried pulling ONLY the connector for the UPPER injector?
>


I beleive this to be the problem. I don't think it's a leaky injector. I
guess my question should be; What will cause the ECU to power the upper
injector when it shouldn't be powered? A temperature sensor? Will this
cause a Code 16? BTW, I did check the wire harness and cleaned the
ground wire at the thermostat too.

>
>

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