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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12 Aug 2014, 12:05 pm
JRStern
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Default So why does new TSX not use CVT?

Just curious.

The 2015 TSX 4-banger uses a new 8 speed with "lock-up torque
converter instead of flywheel". I'm sure that's lovely, but is it a
comment on the limits of the CVT? And, does anyone trust Honda to get
a fancy new transmission right?

J.

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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12 Aug 2014, 08:00 pm
Tegger
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
news:4meku91fm8qk9gcr9nq9sct13dvmokepk0@4ax.com:

> Just curious.
>
> The 2015 TSX 4-banger uses a new 8 speed with "lock-up torque
> converter instead of flywheel". I'm sure that's lovely, but is it a
> comment on the limits of the CVT? And, does anyone trust Honda to get
> a fancy new transmission right?
>




Honda and Toyota may not trust CVTs.

I drove a rented 2014 Nissan Sentra with a CVT for a week last month. I was
unimpressed with that transmission.

I read that Nissan programmed the 2014 CVT to feel like a regular geared-
automatic -- complete with a PRNDL shift quadrant -- but it ended up
feeling just weird. There was a disturbing vibration under certain
circumstances at very low speeds, and it "shifted" at strange times.

Maybe it's something you just need to get used to, but these may be some of
the reasons Honda and Toyota have shied away from CVTs.


--
Tegger
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2014, 12:28 am
JRStern
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 00:00:27 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@example.org>
wrote:

>JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
>news:4meku91fm8qk9gcr9nq9sct13dvmokepk0@4ax.com :
>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> The 2015 TSX 4-banger uses a new 8 speed with "lock-up torque
>> converter instead of flywheel". I'm sure that's lovely, but is it a
>> comment on the limits of the CVT? And, does anyone trust Honda to get
>> a fancy new transmission right?
>>

>
>
>
>Honda and Toyota may not trust CVTs.
>
>I drove a rented 2014 Nissan Sentra with a CVT for a week last month. I was
>unimpressed with that transmission.
>
>I read that Nissan programmed the 2014 CVT to feel like a regular geared-
>automatic -- complete with a PRNDL shift quadrant -- but it ended up
>feeling just weird. There was a disturbing vibration under certain
>circumstances at very low speeds, and it "shifted" at strange times.
>
>Maybe it's something you just need to get used to, but these may be some of
>the reasons Honda and Toyota have shied away from CVTs.


But they've just gone to them for all their mainline models including
my 2013 Accord. They do take a little getting used to, and I think
Honda could do some more tuning on the algorithms, but I credit a lot
of the extra 7mpg it now gets on the highway to the tranny ... as I
credit the 3mpg *less* it now gets in the city to the tranny.

Actually it seems it sometimes does not engage properly after a start,
when I put it in reverse and have to back up a steep driveway, and
sometimes even for the first few moments in drive ... but so far just
giving it a little gas and a little time and it's settled down, and I
haven't heard of any disasters or recalls. And they've been using
them in Japan for years too, I understand.

I do NOT notice that Mercedes or BMW has gone CVT. It is hard to get
quick response out of my drive train but paddle shifters would fix
that, I'd think, have to test drive a sport some time and see.

J.


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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 13 Aug 2014, 01:16 pm
Alan Bowler
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

On 2014-08-13 12:28 AM, JRStern wrote:
> I do NOT notice that Mercedes or BMW has gone CVT. It is hard to get
> quick response out of my drive train but paddle shifters would fix
> that, I'd think, have to test drive a sport some time and see.


Is it actually that you don't get quick responce, or that
the smooth responce of a CVT doesn't have the jerks people
associate with power and speed? After 12 years of driving
with a Honda CVT I've learned to be very cautious about keeping
the distance from the car in front of me when the light turns
green.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 14 Aug 2014, 01:56 am
JRStern
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

On Wed, 13 Aug 2014 13:16:50 -0400, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca>
wrote:

>On 2014-08-13 12:28 AM, JRStern wrote:
> > I do NOT notice that Mercedes or BMW has gone CVT. It is hard to get
> > quick response out of my drive train but paddle shifters would fix
> > that, I'd think, have to test drive a sport some time and see.

>
>Is it actually that you don't get quick responce, or that
>the smooth responce of a CVT doesn't have the jerks people
>associate with power and speed? After 12 years of driving
>with a Honda CVT I've learned to be very cautious about keeping
>the distance from the car in front of me when the light turns
>green.


You've had them in Canada that long? Harumph.

Unfortunately I've learned to keep that distance even with Honda
non-CVTs, at first I associated the issue with Honda tuning for
economy and emissions, and then I realized part of it is just crappy
engineering. No *way* I can follow a BMW around town. My parents
1964 Buick Wildcat with the torque converter was far more responsive -
and of course an ungodly gas hog by modern standards, and the factors
are connected.

CVT well engineered with paddle shifters or just better algorithms
should be pretty nearly as responsive as anything else, afaik, but
that might negatively impact economy and emissions.

J.

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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 14 Aug 2014, 12:50 pm
Alan Bowler
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

On 2014-08-14 1:56 AM, JRStern wrote:
>
> You've had them in Canada that long? Harumph.


I bought my Civic hybrid with a CVT in 2002, they
were also sold in the USA at the same time.
In Canada, the HCH was only sold with the CVT,
in the US both the CVT and manual transmissions
were offered.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 14 Aug 2014, 02:00 pm
JRStern
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

On Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:50:25 -0400, Alan Bowler <atbowler@thinkage.ca>
wrote:

>On 2014-08-14 1:56 AM, JRStern wrote:
>>
>> You've had them in Canada that long? Harumph.

>
>I bought my Civic hybrid with a CVT in 2002, they
>were also sold in the USA at the same time.
>In Canada, the HCH was only sold with the CVT,
>in the US both the CVT and manual transmissions
>were offered.


OK thanks, I'd been under the impression that the recent introduction
to the Accord line was the first US use. Unless - was it offered in
the US *only* on the hybrids? Actually that rings a tiny bell with
me, but I never paid a lot of attention to the Honda hybrids - until
this latest re-addition to the Accord line.

Somewhat off topic I was talking to someone about the BMW 3xx line,
the only hybrid they have is on top of a turbo-six engine, the four
cyclinder comes only with a turbo, not without a turbo, and not as a
hybrid. I made the snarky remark that turbo is now old tech and
hybrid is the way to go even for performance. Rumor suggests a
plug-in hybrid 3xx is coming, with or without turbo - with or without
gas engine, I dunno. The 3xx I'd want would follow the Honda Accord
model, smaller gas engine plus electric boost, with all-electric
capability of maybe 15 miles, and *not* a plug-in model.

The Honda Accord hybrid has something funky about the transmission, or
was it that it had no transmission at all?

J.

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 15 Aug 2014, 06:51 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

In article <dttpu9lkjvs1q9h9r0m1t05v3lqjjrijao@4ax.com>,
JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote:

> The Honda Accord hybrid has something funky about the transmission, or
> was it that it had no transmission at all?


"doesn't have a transmission" is bullshit. Of course it has a
transmission. It has a mechanism that transmits power from the motor(s)
to the wheels.

That it's not a CVT, or a traditional multi-geared transmission, doesn't
mean it doesn't have a transmission.

If the HAH doesn't have a transmission, then neither does the Prius.

Car people are easily confused if you take them out of their comfort
zone.

Anyway:

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...ccords-shrewdl
y-designed-new-hybrid-system-tech-dept
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 19 Aug 2014, 10:59 pm
rll_sb
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Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

We have a Subaru Outback with CVT and are relatively pleased with it. The
transmission never has to "hunt" for the correct gear when ascending a hill.
It's always in the right one. Also, there is no maintenance to a CVT -- no
complex gearing, clutches, no oil or filter to change -- nothing. No
recommended maintenance. It certainly isn't the transmission for
enthusiastic driving, but I have other vehicles for that (an NSX and a
Nighthawk 650cc). My wife likes her Outback just fine with the CVT.

By the way, it does have paddle shifters and a "manual" mode, but aside from
trying it once, it's kind of silly.

- Russ in SB

"JRStern" wrote in message
news:4meku91fm8qk9gcr9nq9sct13dvmokepk0@4ax.com...

Just curious.

The 2015 TSX 4-banger uses a new 8 speed with "lock-up torque
converter instead of flywheel". I'm sure that's lovely, but is it a
comment on the limits of the CVT? And, does anyone trust Honda to get
a fancy new transmission right?

J.

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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 20 Aug 2014, 06:33 am
Elmo P. Shagnasty
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: So why does new TSX not use CVT?

In article <lt12uq$nc0$1@dont-email.me>,
"rll_sb" <rlombardo3@gmail.com> wrote:

> Also, there is no maintenance to a CVT -- no
> complex gearing, clutches, no oil or filter to change -- nothing. No
> recommended maintenance.


Ummmm.....no.

There's plenty of complexity to a modern CVT, it's just different than
what you're used to.

As for "no oil or filter to change," lots of manufacturers say the exact
same thing about their non-CVT auto transmissions. "Lifetime fluid,"
they'll say. Well, absolutely: when the fluid no longer can adequately
do its job, the transmission's life is over.

That's way, WAY different than saying "changing the transmission oil
won't do anything to help extend the life of the transmission".

Toyota claims "lifetime fluid" on their Prius transmission. Sure.
Uh-huh. I hear you.
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