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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 13 Mar 2014, 05:40 am
MummyChunk
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

Thew Civic Si debuted last November but the pricing was just revealed.




From AB




2014 Civic Si Ups the Ante with More Power, Higher Tech and Sportier
Coupe Styling

03/11/2014 - TORRANCE, Calif.

2014 Civic Si Coupe goes on-sale March 12, Si Sedan follows on March
26

Coupe styling enhancements emphasize sporty character of Civic Si

Engine power boosted to 205 horsepower1 and 174 lb-ft of torque2

Many premium technology additions, including 7-inch Display Audio and
Honda-exclusive LaneWatchTM

With more power, a retuned suspension, an upgraded interior, a host of
new features and a restyled coupe model, the 2014 Civic Si is ready to
impress. Add to this a Best Resale Value Award3 from trusted vehicle
valuation source Kelley Blue Book and a minimal $275 increase in the
starting price, and the 2014 Civic Si is poised for success. The 2014
Honda Civic Si Coupe goes on-sale tomorrow, March 12, with a
manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) starting at $22,7904. The
2014 Civic Si Sedan goes on-sale March 26 with an MSRP starting at
$22,9904.

The restyled 2014 Civic Si Coupe, riding on larger (+1 inch)
performance-styled 18-inch alloy wheels, has an aggressive, sporty
presence. As with all 2014 Civic coupe models, the Si styles a more
aggressive hood, front fenders and headlight designs, and new
taillight lenses and side mirrors. The sporty aura of the Si is
further accentuated by an Si-exclusive grille and lower front-bumper
garnish and rear air diffuser, and a large wing spoiler. Inside,
Si-exclusive seat fabric and trim is enhanced with a sport-oriented
black and red color scheme and the audio panel received a high tech,
race-inspired carbon fiber-style design.

To back up the bling, a retuned exhaust system boosts the engine
output of both the Si Coupe and Si Sedan by 4 horsepower (205)1 and 4
lb-ft of torque (1742). The Si's 2.4-liter i-VTEC® DOHC 16-valve
engine is mated to a close-ratio, 6-speed manual transmission. For
superior sport handling, the suspension is revised with higher rate
springs, new dampers and a stiffer rear stabilizer bar.

As much fun as the Si's engine and chassis offer, there is more to
enjoy in the interior. For 2014 the Si Coupe and Si Sedan add as
standard equipment Honda's new 7-inch Display Audio touchscreen, which
uses a smartphone-like interface, allowing users to swipe, tap and
pinch their way through audio, phonebook, media, vehicle information
and available navigation features. The display is also the interface
for the next generation HondaLink™, the application based platform
that connects customers to smartphone-provided online content both
inside and outside the car. Also standard on the 2014 Si is the
convenient Smart Entry with Push Button start, expanded view driver's
mirror and Honda LaneWatch™ display for enhanced driver visibility.

The 2014 Civic Si Coupe is available in standard and Navi trims, both
being available with summer tires. The Civic Si Sedan will be
available in standard trim with a summer tire option and Navi trim.
TRIM MSRP4 EPA Fuel Economy Ratings5
(city/highway/combined)

Civic Si Coupe 6MT $22,790 22/31/25

Civic Si Coupe 6MT w/ Summer Tires $22,990 22/31/25

Civic Si Coupe 6MT w/ Navi $24,290 22/31/25

Civic Si Coupe 6MT w/ Summer Tires & Navi $24,490 22/31/25

Civic Si Sedan 6MT $22,990 22/31/25

Civic Si Sedan 6MT w/ Summer Tires $23,190 22/31/25

Civic Si Sedan 6MT w/ Navi $24,490 22/31/25



1 205 hp @ 7000 rpm (SAE net)
2 174 lb-ft of torque @ 4400 rpm (SAE net)
3 Kelley Blue Book's Best Resale Value Awards are based on projections
from the Kelley Blue Book® Official Residual Value Guide.
4 MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) excluding tax, license,
registration, $790 destination charge and options. Dealer prices may
vary.
5 Based on 2014 EPA mileage ratings. Use for comparison purposes only.
Your actual mileage will vary depending driving conditions, how the
vehicle is driven and maintained, battery pack age/condition and other
factors.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 15 Mar 2014, 12:58 pm
JRStern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

On Thu, 13 Mar 2014 05:40:52 -0500,
mummycullen@gmail-dot-com.no-spam.invalid (MummyChunk) wrote:

>Thew Civic Si debuted last November but the pricing was just revealed.
>
>
>
>
>From AB
>
>
>
>
>2014 Civic Si Ups the Ante with More Power, Higher Tech and Sportier
>Coupe Styling
>
>03/11/2014 - TORRANCE, Calif.
>
>2014 Civic Si Coupe goes on-sale March 12, Si Sedan follows on March
>26
>
>Coupe styling enhancements emphasize sporty character of Civic Si
>
>Engine power boosted to 205 horsepower1 and 174 lb-ft of torque2
>
>Many premium technology additions, including 7-inch Display Audio and
>Honda-exclusive LaneWatchTM
>
>With more power, a retuned suspension, an upgraded interior, a host of
>new features and a restyled coupe model, the 2014 Civic Si is ready to
>impress. Add to this a Best Resale Value Award3 from trusted vehicle
>valuation source Kelley Blue Book and a minimal $275 increase in the
>starting price, and the 2014 Civic Si is poised for success. The 2014
>Honda Civic Si Coupe goes on-sale tomorrow, March 12, with a
>manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) starting at $22,7904. The
>2014 Civic Si Sedan goes on-sale March 26 with an MSRP starting at
>$22,9904.
>
>The restyled 2014 Civic Si Coupe, riding on larger (+1 inch)
>performance-styled 18-inch alloy wheels, has an aggressive, sporty
>presence. As with all 2014 Civic coupe models, the Si styles a more
>aggressive hood, front fenders and headlight designs, and new
>taillight lenses and side mirrors. The sporty aura of the Si is
>further accentuated by an Si-exclusive grille and lower front-bumper
>garnish and rear air diffuser, and a large wing spoiler. Inside,
>Si-exclusive seat fabric and trim is enhanced with a sport-oriented
>black and red color scheme and the audio panel received a high tech,
>race-inspired carbon fiber-style design.
>
>To back up the bling, a retuned exhaust system boosts the engine
>output of both the Si Coupe and Si Sedan by 4 horsepower (205)1 and 4
>lb-ft of torque (1742). The Si's 2.4-liter i-VTEC® DOHC 16-valve
>engine is mated to a close-ratio, 6-speed manual transmission. For
>superior sport handling, the suspension is revised with higher rate
>springs, new dampers and a stiffer rear stabilizer bar.
>
>As much fun as the Si's engine and chassis offer, there is more to
>enjoy in the interior. For 2014 the Si Coupe and Si Sedan add as
>standard equipment Honda's new 7-inch Display Audio touchscreen, which
>uses a smartphone-like interface, allowing users to swipe, tap and
>pinch their way through audio, phonebook, media, vehicle information
>and available navigation features. The display is also the interface
>for the next generation HondaLink™, the application based platform
>that connects customers to smartphone-provided online content both
>inside and outside the car. Also standard on the 2014 Si is the
>convenient Smart Entry with Push Button start, expanded view driver's
>mirror and Honda LaneWatch™ display for enhanced driver visibility.
>
>The 2014 Civic Si Coupe is available in standard and Navi trims, both
>being available with summer tires. The Civic Si Sedan will be
>available in standard trim with a summer tire option and Navi trim.
>TRIM MSRP4 EPA Fuel Economy Ratings5
>(city/highway/combined)
>
>Civic Si Coupe 6MT $22,790 22/31/25
>
>Civic Si Coupe 6MT w/ Summer Tires $22,990 22/31/25
>
>Civic Si Coupe 6MT w/ Navi $24,290 22/31/25
>
>Civic Si Coupe 6MT w/ Summer Tires & Navi $24,490 22/31/25
>
>Civic Si Sedan 6MT $22,990 22/31/25
>
>Civic Si Sedan 6MT w/ Summer Tires $23,190 22/31/25
>
>Civic Si Sedan 6MT w/ Navi $24,490 22/31/25
>
>
>
>1 205 hp @ 7000 rpm (SAE net)
>2 174 lb-ft of torque @ 4400 rpm (SAE net)
>3 Kelley Blue Book's Best Resale Value Awards are based on projections
>from the Kelley Blue Book® Official Residual Value Guide.
>4 MSRP (Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price) excluding tax, license,
>registration, $790 destination charge and options. Dealer prices may
>vary.
>5 Based on 2014 EPA mileage ratings. Use for comparison purposes only.
>Your actual mileage will vary depending driving conditions, how the
>vehicle is driven and maintained, battery pack age/condition and other
>factors.
>
>View the attachments for this post at:
>http://www.jlaforums.com/viewtopic.p...5896#273205896


http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx

Wouldn't it be "sportier" if they destroked the engine, even at the
cost of some displacement and power?

If only they could peel 500 pounds off the curb weight.

J.


Engine Type In-Line 4-Cylinder
Engine Block/Cylinder Head Aluminum-Alloy
Displacement (cc) 2354
Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net) 205 @ 7000
Torque (lb-ft @ rpm, SAE net) 174 @ 4400
Redline (rpm) 7000
Bore and Stroke (mm) 87 x 99
Compression Ratio 11.0 : 1
Valve Train 16-Valve DOHC i-VTEC®
Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold Standard
Multi-Point Fuel Injection Standard
Drive-by-Wire Throttle System Standard
CARB Emissions Rating[1] ULEV-2
Direct Ignition System with Immobilizer Standard
100K +/- Miles No Scheduled Tune-Ups[2] Standard

Wheelbase (in) 103.2
Length (in) 178.8
Height (in) 55.0
Width (in) 69.0
Track (in, front/rear) 59.2 / 59.9
Curb Weight (lbs) 3002
Weight Distribution (%, front/rear) 61 / 39

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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 15 Mar 2014, 07:30 pm
Dave Garrett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

In article <g059i955m3s2uke5g5u2j8b5tpm5244tia@4ax.com>,
JRStern@foobar.invalid says...

> http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-s...fications.aspx
>
> Wouldn't it be "sportier" if they destroked the engine, even at the
> cost of some displacement and power?
>
> If only they could peel 500 pounds off the curb weight.
>
> J.
>
>
> Engine Type In-Line 4-Cylinder
> Engine Block/Cylinder Head Aluminum-Alloy
> Displacement (cc) 2354
> Horsepower @ rpm (SAE net) 205 @ 7000
> Torque (lb-ft @ rpm, SAE net) 174 @ 4400
> Redline (rpm) 7000
> Bore and Stroke (mm) 87 x 99
> Compression Ratio 11.0 : 1
> Valve Train 16-Valve DOHC i-VTEC®
> Stainless Steel Exhaust Manifold Standard
> Multi-Point Fuel Injection Standard
> Drive-by-Wire Throttle System Standard
> CARB Emissions Rating[1] ULEV-2
> Direct Ignition System with Immobilizer Standard
> 100K +/- Miles No Scheduled Tune-Ups[2] Standard
>
> Wheelbase (in) 103.2
> Length (in) 178.8
> Height (in) 55.0
> Width (in) 69.0
> Track (in, front/rear) 59.2 / 59.9
> Curb Weight (lbs) 3002
> Weight Distribution (%, front/rear) 61 / 39



It would be "sportier" if they returned to making engines like the
venerable B16 in the 99-00 Civic Si. 205HP from 2.4 liters @ 7000 rpm
doesn't look so impressive compared to the B16A2's 160HP from 1.6 liters
@ 7600 rpm. But the real difference in the two engines' characters is in
the torque specs:

2014 Civic Si: 174 ft-lb @ 4400 rpm
99-00 Civic Si: 111 ft-lb @ 7000 rpm

Honda's bread and butter in sporty cars used to be lightweight, smaller-
displacement engines that shone at high revs. There's not nearly as much
now to distinguish the powerplant engineering in Si-badged cars from
that of their competitors.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 16 Mar 2014, 12:24 pm
JRStern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:30:35 -0500, Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com>
wrote:

>It would be "sportier" if they returned to making engines like the
>venerable B16 in the 99-00 Civic Si. 205HP from 2.4 liters @ 7000 rpm
>doesn't look so impressive compared to the B16A2's 160HP from 1.6 liters
>@ 7600 rpm. But the real difference in the two engines' characters is in
>the torque specs:
>
>2014 Civic Si: 174 ft-lb @ 4400 rpm
>99-00 Civic Si: 111 ft-lb @ 7000 rpm
>
>Honda's bread and butter in sporty cars used to be lightweight, smaller-
>displacement engines that shone at high revs. There's not nearly as much
>now to distinguish the powerplant engineering in Si-badged cars from
>that of their competitors.


Yeah, but look at those numbers, 174 vs 111. Also I'll bet the gross
weight of the 99-00 was at least 300 pounds less.

To answer my own question, on reflection, I would guess that reducing
the stroke, even if bore was increased to compensate on displacement,
would result in engines that get worse mileage and pollute more.

And unless you put in about double the horsepower/pound of current
Si's the greater responsiveness of a squared-spec engine probably
doesn't really matter much, anyway. Yeah, they worried about those
things on 1960's "sports cars" that could barely do 0-60 in ten
seconds, but they just didn't have the engineering back then to know
better. I thought I noticed recently that some high-end BMW and
Porsche engines are about square-spec, but they just don't care about
their mileage numbers like Honda does.

J.

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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 17 Mar 2014, 08:51 am
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
news:g059i955m3s2uke5g5u2j8b5tpm5244tia@4ax.com:

>
> If only they could peel 500 pounds off the curb weight.
>



Roll the crash regulations back to where they were in 1995, and you'll get
that.


--
Tegger
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 17 Mar 2014, 10:31 am
JRStern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 13:51:51 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@example.org>
wrote:

>JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
>news:g059i955m3s2uke5g5u2j8b5tpm5244tia@4ax.com :
>
>>
>> If only they could peel 500 pounds off the curb weight.
>>

>
>
>Roll the crash regulations back to where they were in 1995, and you'll get
>that.


Yeah I know, and I hate the higher beltlines.

Saw an old BMW Alpina era coupe the other day (1968), amazed at how
low it all is, how much glass there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BMWE9CSc.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E9

I recall how nice my old 1987 Accord was in those terms.

Maybe it's better to be safe, I dunno, I suppose if I crashed my 2010
Accord into my old 1971 Fiat, there wouldn't be much Fiat left.

J.

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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 17 Mar 2014, 11:27 am
Tegger
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
news:vp4ei9lg8gjhnr897chmnl927u3np3quvt@4ax.com:


>
> Maybe it's better to be safe,




Of course. But what's missing from the current regulatory environment is
any sense of proportion.

In order to deal with the microscopically-tiny chance that you may be
involved in a collision severe enough to cause death by sufficiently
deforming the passenger compartment, regulators are sacrificing the
visibility you need every second you're on the road.

It's worth noting that, prior to the 1997 regulatory changes, emphasis was
specifically on /improving/ visibility in order to avoid a collision in the
first place; that meant the larger windows and lower beltlines you've
noticed. Now, visibility is unimportant. I've seen studies that show
increases in car/pedestrian collisions involving vehicles with the new, fat
pillars. Pedestrians don't tend to fare well when hit by cars.


--
Tegger
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 17 Mar 2014, 01:52 pm
JRStern
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:27:18 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@example.org>
wrote:

>JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
>news:vp4ei9lg8gjhnr897chmnl927u3np3quvt@4ax.com :
>
>
>>
>> Maybe it's better to be safe,

>
>
>
>Of course. But what's missing from the current regulatory environment is
>any sense of proportion.
>
>In order to deal with the microscopically-tiny chance that you may be
>involved in a collision severe enough to cause death by sufficiently
>deforming the passenger compartment, regulators are sacrificing the
>visibility you need every second you're on the road.
>
>It's worth noting that, prior to the 1997 regulatory changes, emphasis was
>specifically on /improving/ visibility in order to avoid a collision in the
>first place; that meant the larger windows and lower beltlines you've
>noticed. Now, visibility is unimportant. I've seen studies that show
>increases in car/pedestrian collisions involving vehicles with the new, fat
>pillars. Pedestrians don't tend to fare well when hit by cars.


I agree. I tried sitting in the new ILX, and there's no real
visibility forward or back. In my Accord I can't see the front or
rear bumpers, and I still haven't figured out just what's what in that
backup camera. Look at the (lack of) rear window visibility on most
cars, most especially the goofy Cadillac designs, nothing that ugly
and pointlessly horizontal since about the 1975 Mustang.

Mostly, lowering the window about two inches means someone of my
height can more easily rest my left arm on it.

Maybe I should just chuck it all and buy a Boxster that somehow is
still allowed on the highway. Or (heaven forfend) a motorcycle.

I'm curious, actually, what *exactly* is the requirement that raises
the beltline, if you happen to have it handy. Thanks.

J.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 17 Mar 2014, 06:47 pm
Dave Garrett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

In article <u5nbi9t0h1pdcilddkepl62574f95mujdn@4ax.com>,
JRStern@foobar.invalid says...
>
> On Sat, 15 Mar 2014 19:30:35 -0500, Dave Garrett <dave@compassnet.com>
> wrote:


> >It would be "sportier" if they returned to making engines like the
> >venerable B16 in the 99-00 Civic Si. 205HP from 2.4 liters @ 7000 rpm
> >doesn't look so impressive compared to the B16A2's 160HP from 1.6 liters
> >@ 7600 rpm. But the real difference in the two engines' characters is in
> >the torque specs:
> >
> >2014 Civic Si: 174 ft-lb @ 4400 rpm
> >99-00 Civic Si: 111 ft-lb @ 7000 rpm
> >
> >Honda's bread and butter in sporty cars used to be lightweight, smaller-
> >displacement engines that shone at high revs. There's not nearly as much
> >now to distinguish the powerplant engineering in Si-badged cars from
> >that of their competitors.

>
> Yeah, but look at those numbers, 174 vs 111. Also I'll bet the gross
> weight of the 99-00 was at least 300 pounds less.


Almost exactly 300 pounds less, off the top of my head. 99-00 is around
2700 pounds. Reasonably lightweight, especially by latter-day standards,
but still a far cry from the days of featherweight 1900-2100 pound
CRXes.

As for torque, it isn't the be-all and end-all, although I understand
why Honda has gone for more displacement and more torque. Those
characteristics appeal to a broader cross-section of customers than a
peaky engine whose figurative neck you have to wring to extract a decent
amount of power from. VTEC was a creative solution, allowing docile
econobox manners when puttering around town while preserving the rush of
power when called for at the top end.

> To answer my own question, on reflection, I would guess that reducing
> the stroke, even if bore was increased to compensate on displacement,
> would result in engines that get worse mileage and pollute more.


Oversquare engines (bore greater than stroke) tend to develop peak
torque at higher revs, whereas undersquare engines tend to develop peak
torque at low revs.

B16A2 bore x stroke = 81mm x 77.4mm
K24Z7 bore x stroke = 87mm x 99mm (K24Z7 is the engine in the current
Si)

As far as mileage, I've had two 99-00 Sis, and they consistently
averaged between 25-26 mpg in daily driving (mostly city driving with a
mixture of stop-and-go commuting and hitting the upper reaches of the
rev range).

> I thought I noticed recently that some high-end BMW and
> Porsche engines are about square-spec, but they just don't care about
> their mileage numbers like Honda does.


The mileage numbers for B16-engined cars would certainly not be
acceptable to Honda today, but there are obviously different priorities
and regulatory constraints now that weren't really factors in the late
1990s.




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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 17 Mar 2014, 06:51 pm
Dave Garrett
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: 2014 Honda Civic SI priced at $22,790

In article <vlgei9dicbhhqcci0vlcnnkm317bdp9dkf@4ax.com>,
JRStern@foobar.invalid says...
>
> On Mon, 17 Mar 2014 16:27:18 +0000 (UTC), Tegger <invalid@example.org>
> wrote:
>
> >JRStern <JRStern@foobar.invalid> wrote in
> >news:vp4ei9lg8gjhnr897chmnl927u3np3quvt@4ax.com :
> >
> >
> >>
> >> Maybe it's better to be safe,

> >
> >
> >
> >Of course. But what's missing from the current regulatory environment is
> >any sense of proportion.
> >
> >In order to deal with the microscopically-tiny chance that you may be
> >involved in a collision severe enough to cause death by sufficiently
> >deforming the passenger compartment, regulators are sacrificing the
> >visibility you need every second you're on the road.
> >
> >It's worth noting that, prior to the 1997 regulatory changes, emphasis was
> >specifically on /improving/ visibility in order to avoid a collision in the
> >first place; that meant the larger windows and lower beltlines you've
> >noticed. Now, visibility is unimportant. I've seen studies that show
> >increases in car/pedestrian collisions involving vehicles with the new, fat
> >pillars. Pedestrians don't tend to fare well when hit by cars.

>
> I agree. I tried sitting in the new ILX, and there's no real
> visibility forward or back. In my Accord I can't see the front or
> rear bumpers, and I still haven't figured out just what's what in that
> backup camera. Look at the (lack of) rear window visibility on most
> cars, most especially the goofy Cadillac designs, nothing that ugly
> and pointlessly horizontal since about the 1975 Mustang.


I rented a new Taurus a while back, and while it was basically a fine
car, I absolutely could not abide the lack of visibility. It felt like I
was sitting in a tank looking out narrow gunnery slits all the way
around.

High beltlines suck.
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